Donald Trump gave world leaders an idea of what to expect with his round of phone calls in the weeks after his inauguration. Photo / Washington Post
Donald Trump gave world leaders an idea of what to expect with his round of phone calls in the weeks after his inauguration. Photo / Washington Post
By Aaron Blake
That US President Donald Trump berated Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull on a January 28 phone call was known.
But what has now become known was how little Trump understood the policy that was discussed on the call.
According to a transcript of the call unearthed by the Washington Post, which also released the transcript of Trump's call the previous day with Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto, the deal to resettle refugees was actually brought up first on the call by Turnbull.
The Australian leader wanted assurance that the United States Government would stand by its commitment in light of Trump's stance on other refugees.
After some discussion of the Isis (Islamic State) and Christian refugees more generally, Turnbull says, "This is a very big issue for us, particularly domestically, and I do understand you are inclined to a different point of view than the Vice-President."
Trump then starts the back-and-forth by noting that someone had just described the deal to him. But then he uses inaccurate numbers: "Somebody told me yesterday that close to 2000 people are coming who are really probably troublesome." Later, he inflates it even more for reasons that aren't clear.
"With great respect," Turnbull says, "that is not right; it is not 2000."
Trump responds: "Well, it is close. I have also heard, like, 5000 as well."
The number, in fact, is about 1250, which is the number of refugees currently being held on the islands of Manus and Nauru.
Trump also doesn't even seem familiar with the fact that the deal was forged by the Obama Administration.
"Who made the deal? Obama?" Trump asks.
Turnbull responds, apparently realising Trump is out of his depth, "Yes, but let me describe what it is."
Finally, later in the conversation, Trump seems wholly unfamiliar with the reason the US might take these refugees in the first place, rather than Australia. It's because Australia doesn't take refugees who arrive via boat, which is how these refugees travelled.
Trump repeatedly seems puzzled, first as to why Australia doesn't take the refugees and then as to why they have a policy of not accepting people via boat.
"Why haven't you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?" Trump asks.
Turnbull replies: "Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people-smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Nobel Prize-winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people ..."
Malcolm Turnbull had to explain Australia's stance on boat people.
Trump sees some sense in the approach, saying: "That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am."
To clarify, Trump adds: "Because you do not want to destroy your country. Look at what has happened in Germany. Look at what is happening in these countries. These people are crazy to let this happen. I spoke to Merkel today, and believe me, she wishes she did not do it. Germany is a mess because of what happened."
Turnbull replies: "I agree with you, letting 1 million Syrians walk into their country.
"It was one of the big factors in the Brexit vote, frankly."
Trump adds: "Well, there could be 2 million people coming in Germany, 2 million people. Can you believe it? It will never be the same."
But Trump struggles with both the thinking behind Australia's policy and the numbers involved.
"Malcolm, why is this so important? I do not understand. This is going to kill me. I am the world's greatest person that does not want to let people into the country. And now I am agreeing to take 2000 people and I agree I can vet them, but that puts me in a bad position. It makes me look so bad and I have only been here a week."
Trump goes on to express his displeasure with the deal. "I hate taking these people. I guarantee you they are bad. That is why they are in prison right now. They are not going to be wonderful people who go on to work for the local milk people."
Turnbull replies: "I would not be so sure about that."
Turnbull tries to make his point better understood: "Let me explain. We know exactly who they are. They have been on Nauru or Manus for over three years and the only reason we cannot let them into Australia is because of our commitment to not allow people to come by boat. Otherwise we would have let them in. If they had arrived by airplane and with a tourist visa then they would be here."
But Trump still struggles to grasp the thinking behind the policy.
Trump: "What is the thing with boats? Why do you discriminate against boats? No, I know, they come from certain regions. I get it."
Turnbull: "No, let me explain why. The problem with the boats is that you are basically outsourcing your immigration programme to people-smugglers and also you get thousands of people drowning at sea. So what we say is, we will decide which people get to come to Australia who are refugees, economic migrants, businessmen, whatever. We decide. That is our decision."
The transcript suggests Trump had little more than a passing understanding of the refugee resettlement deal before the call, and yet he launches into a virtual tirade against a major US ally and later hangs up on Turnbull, but not before talking up his conversation with Russian President Vladimir Putin: "As far as I am concerned that is enough Malcolm. I have had it. I have been making these calls all day and this is the most unpleasant call all day. Putin was a pleasant call. This is ridiculous."
Turnbull does his best to end the call on a positive note, saying: "Thank you for your commitment. It is very important to us."
To which Trump replies: "It is important to you and it is embarrassing to me. It is an embarrassment to me, but at least I got you off the hook. So you put me back on the hook."
