KEY POINTS:
"As a teenager," reminisces Tony Benn, "I joined the Home Guard when we thought the Germans would invade us. I learned to use a bayonet, fire a missile and throw a grenade. If the Germans had arrived in London, I would have thrown bombs into restaurants while they were dining. The right of self-defence is inherent, but there is no difference between a stealth bomber and a suicide bomber. Both kill the innocent for political gain. Would I have been a terrorist or freedom fighter?"
That timeless question has confronted young troops in Iraq in recent years, as the world has painfully reminded itself that aggressive foreign policy comes with a hefty price tag. Next month marks two years since the election of Iraq's own Government. It has been five years since the invasion of Iraq.
But for Tony Benn, the war seems more questionable than ever.
Benn spent half a century as a socialist politician in Britain, and was the Labour Party's longest-serving parliamentarian. In his retirement, he has become a campaigner on public and foreign affairs. He knows the issues well, having served as an Air Force pilot in South Africa and Rhodesia. His father also served, and his brother was killed in action. As the oldest living member of the Benn dynasty, his words are heeded. The real war now, he says, is on public apathy.
"Governments try to frighten us. It was about the Kaiser, then Hitler, then Stalin. Now it's the Muslims. Soon they will have a security man in every Chinese takeaway store, just in case propaganda is coming in from Beijing. They try to divide us. They try to demoralise us. They try to make us cynical, because if we think they're all the same, we won't make the effort to change them. Once you understand how we are controlled, it is a little easier to keep your spirits high."
In February 2003, two million people marched on London, in the biggest demonstration in Britain's history. The rally, organised by the Stop the War Coalition, was spearheaded by Benn, its president. The organisation has been criticised for being too hard on the Bush Administration and too soft on Saddam Hussein's regime. When he met Hussein in 1991, to negotiate the release of British hostages, Benn gained insight into the dictator.
"He felt utterly betrayed by the Americans. He said, 'They armed me to go against Iran, they supported me, they told me if I went into Kuwait they would consider it an Arab question'. Of course, it's true; he was supported by the United States. I said 'If you don't get out of Kuwait, the United States will destroy you'. He replied, 'They'll destroy me anyway, because I'm too strong'."
Benn met Hussein for a second time just weeks before America invaded Iraq. He secured Hussein's first television interview in over a decade, in which he asked him whether he had weapons of mass destruction, and whether he had links with al Qaeda. The answer on both counts, of course, was a resounding no; a response viewed sceptically at the time by the West.
"We were told it was about Saddam and weapons of mass destruction. There were none. We were told it was about democracy, but it has nothing to do with that, because the Americans get on with the Saudis who have no democracy, and they're supporting Musharraf in Pakistan. It was actually about oil and power. A million Iraqis died and there are two million refugees. People now realise they were never told the truth. Whether they understand the truth is another matter."
Benn points out that although this is the first generation with the nuclear, chemical and biological weaponry to destroy the human race, it is also the first with the technology, money and know-how to solve the problems of the human race. If the US$450 billion ($575 billion) that was spent on the war in Iraq was directed to Africa, all Aids sufferers would have had drugs. Benn believes that issues like these are slowly breaking through into public consciousness.
"I'm not sure whether the challenge is armchair syndrome. I think people just don't know what to do; they feel helpless. The main thing is to encourage people. They'll walk ten feet tall and work twice as hard. There have been public meetings [on the Iraq war] all over the world, but I don't think the people at the top have realised that they are in a minority on the issue of Iraq."
That is something the Stop the War Coalition wants to change. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it is reported that the only major region not to partake in Stop the War's antiwar action has been Mainland China, raising questions about dialogue with the region. Benn believes the rapid rise of China shows that a more robust multilateral framework is needed. He believes the United Nations should be replaced by "a more democratic and more representative" body. The power of central governments, says Benn, is superficial.
"People nowadays don't elect representatives; they elect managers. Once, you elected someone to change the system to meet your needs. Now, you elect someone to change you to meet the needs of the system. In Britain, the decisions are made by the European Commission in Brussels, the Central Bank, the International Monetary Fund, the World Trade Organisation and multinationals that are bigger than nation states. We have no say in who makes these decisions."
America continues to exert pressure on Iran to abandon its nuclear programme. Three decades ago, as Britain's energy minister, Benn was sent to meet Iran's Shah to discuss nuclear power stations. The Shah wanted to build multiple stations using an American reactor. Benn was told that if he adopted the American reactor, which he did not wish to do, Iran would buy some of Britain's nuclear industry. Benn was totally opposed to the proposal for he knew the link between nuclear power and nuclear weapons technology; an issue that has proved inescapable recently.
"One year the Shah is your friend, then Iran becomes your enemy. Saddam is your friend, then Iraq is the enemy. Osama is your friend to get the Russians out of Afghanistan, then he is your enemy. The only way to interpret all this is the crude economy and military interests of the superpowers. When people have this explained to them in a clinical way, they see sense."
Benn is willing to try many things to make people see sense. Ten years ago, he and record producer Charles Bailey released Tony Benn's Greatest Hits, an album of Benn's speeches remixed. Last month, Benn spoke at the Rock Against Racism event at the Brixton Academy. This month, British singer Colin MacIntyre releases his single Pay Attention to the Human, in which Benn recites a few stanzas.
In October, when an election seemed inevitable in his electorate, Benn put up his hand for the job. Benn was reluctant to come out of retirement ("My sentence had already been commuted") but the district had no Labour candidate. Fortunately, the election did not eventuate and Benn kept his retirement. His 18-year-old granddaughter, however, will contest a seat in the next election. The legacy of his family continues, but it is that of his nation that concerns Benn.
"We were an empire once," he says fondly, of his native Britain. "It helps me a little. Britain invaded Afghanistan and Egypt, occupied Iraq and Palestine, and were beaten.
"Those we locked up as terrorists ended up having tea with the Queen as heads of Commonwealth countries. I met Gandhi, I knew Nkrumah, I know Mandela. If your country has been an empire and declined as Britain has, you can understand how America is in decline. In any case, there is no ultimate victory, for there is no railroad station called 'Peace: if only you catch the right train'."
