One Nation party officials Steve Dickson (left) and James Ashby field questions after being caught in a doco sting. Photo / AAP
One Nation party officials Steve Dickson (left) and James Ashby field questions after being caught in a doco sting. Photo / AAP
The two One Nation officials caught up in an undercover Al Jazeera investigation say they had "got on the sauce" when they were recorded talking about soliciting millions of dollars in foreign donations from the American gun lobby.
Pauline Hanson's chief of staff James Ashby and One Nation's Queensland leader Steve Dickson fronted the media this afternoon to explain their conduct, which was revealed in the documentary How To Sell A Massacre.
Australian reporter Rodger Muller, working on behalf of Al Jazeera, took the undercover footage.
Robert Muller with One Nation's Pauline Hanson. Photo / via Al Jazeera
The journalist posed as a grassroots gun advocate campaigner and set up meetings in September 2018 between the NRA and One Nation, which he covertly filmed.
The secret footage reveals Ashby and Dickson seeking political donations of up to A$20 million and exploring ways to undermine Australia's gun laws.
This afternoon, Dickson said he "never, ever, ever suspected" Muller was anyone other than a genuine gun enthusiast. He went on to accuse Muller of being a "spy" employed "by a middle eastern country" to interfere in Australian politics.
Ashby said he was "very disappointed" that the pair's comments had "been taken out of context".
Ashby said the main point of meeting with the NRA was to understand and learn from the techniques they had used to help the Trump campaign, such as robocalling, text messaging streams and live phone calls.
"These conversations with the NRA were to look at nothing more than their techniques. This was not about sourcing money from the NRA, this was about sourcing technology, an understanding of how they operate, but never was it about seeking A$20 million from the NRA," he said.
"The conversations that have been recorded where there is talk of A$10 and A$20 million dollars — I'll be the first to admit, we'd arrived in America, we'd got on the sauce, we'd had a few drinks. And that's where those discussions took place. Not with any potential donors. No one but Rodger Muller, Steve Dickson and myself."
Dickson said the pair had not broken any rules during the trip, and echoed Ashby's claim that their most incriminating comments were made under the influence of alcohol.
"Just to clarify a lot of this. We've landed in the United States, this trip has been organised by Rodger Muller — who again, I want to make this point very clearly, was employed by a Middle Eastern country, Al Jazeera, to come to Australia as a spy to infiltrate into Australian politics," Dickson said.
James Ashby in the undercover footage, when the group were drinking. Photo / via Al Jazeera
"There are many, many things that were videoed, and I believe a lot of those things were taken out of sequence.
"I'm going to apologise to the people of Australia for some of the things that Rodger Muller has taped me saying when we were having a few drinks at the bar at our hotel. I don't talk like that publicly, we were three men talking together and we were having scotches for three or four hours. That is the truth of the matter.
"It wasn't a secret meeting. I put it on Facebook. I showed the world we were there. Everybody in this country knew we were there.
"We have followed every rule and regulation."
During the press conference they took turns recounting their interactions with the journalist.
"The approach was made by Rodger Muller on his own. He approached us and said that he wanted to do an interview with Senator Hanson, and he also indicated that he wanted to help the party," Ashby told reporters.
"He gave an indication that he worked for an organisation called Gun Rights Australia, and he owned a dog food company in this country.
"The conversation led to a simple acknowledgment that I'm not a gun person. But we do have registered firearms people within our party, and Steve Dickson is that person. Being the expert in guns, I referred Rodger Muller over to Steve Dickson."
One Nation's Steve Dickson, left, undercover journalist Robert Muller, centre, and One Nation's James Ashby on their way to meet the NRA. Photo / via Al Jazeera
Dickson said he organised for Muller to come to his house, but not before he "checked him out".
"I made sure that he was what he said he was, and he'd been operating in Australia for two-and-a-half years at that time," he said.
"He'd been to gun shows all over Australia, he'd been to the United States, he'd been to a whole lot of places. When he rang me he said, 'What I want to make sure of is that we preserve the gun use in Australia as they are today.'"
Dickson said Muller conducted a "very vanilla" interview with him.
"He seemed to be a very reasonable guy, wore the akubra hat. I never, ever suspected in my wildest dreams that that guy was employed by a middle eastern country, by Al Jazeera, as an Australian spy to interfere in Australian politics," Dickson said.
"He said, 'What we really want to do is introduce semiautomatic weapons, potentially automatic questions, and people to be able to carry handguns on their hip like they do in Texas.' And I said, 'Rodger, that's never going to happen in Australia. We have got some of the strictest gun laws in the world, and they're working pretty well.'"
After his meeting with Dickson, Muller then offered Hanson an invitation to the Congressional Sportsmen's Dinner in the United States. She turned it down, but Ashby and Dickson went.
Pauline Hanson and James Ashby. Photo / Getty
"It just so happened that Rodger had proposed meeting with the American NRA. And at that stage, he was telling us about the involvement the NRA had with Donald Trump's campaign in 2016. He'd indicated that some of the technologies could be applied to One Nation in order to assist with our campaigning," Ashby said.
"When we arrived in America, other meetings were also organised. One was with the Koch Industries, which neither Steve nor I were even familiar with, but Rodger had indicated to us that they had been a significant contributor to Donald Trump's campaign to the tune of $800 million, and they were interested in meeting with One Nation."
Dickson addressed a couple of his more controversial comments from the video footage.
"I said if we were fortunate enough to get into government and have the balance of power, we would have the government by the kahunas. I won't use the word that they've said last night, it would be inappropriate of me to do so," he said.
"But that means very clearly, and I don't know if most men here understand that, it means you've got the balance of power.
"I've used the word kill on a number of occasions. And that means stop. Kill a project, kill a program, kill that deal. And that is stop. That's what it means to me.
"I do use colourful language in my everyday life. I was born on the land, it's the way I grew up.
"I apologise to the people of Australia for the use of those words."
But between the apologies, he kept coming back to the same refrain, labelling Muller a "spy" from a middle eastern country.
"To see that somebody had gone to the trouble from a middle eastern country, and Al Jazeera paying a spy to come to Australia - this is the stuff you see in James Bond magazines," he said.
"I would never, ever suspect you would see this for real, in the real world."
Ashby called the sting "a deliberate set-up by the Qatari government".
"He set these meetings up. This is skullduggery at its worst. This is the very first time Australia has witnessed political interference from a foreign government."
