Mackay: We spoke to Bernadette Hunt and I said to her, if you could ask David Parker one question what would it be? [She said she wanted to know how you would measure farmers' success over the next 12 months and was concerned you would use images from SAFE].
Parker: I won't be relying on photos from SAFE but I would be relying on the regional council doing their job and if they present photographs that show to me that we've still got intensive winter grazing on steep areas that are obviously going to slump in a rain event into the waterways – well, it's not good enough.
If they've got cows that are deep in mud that's not good for animal welfare, they can expect the Ministry for Primary Industries to have a crack at them even this year.
Mackay: David is this just a Southland issue? A Southern New Zealand issue? What are the ramifications for this for farmers right around the country?
The most difficult issues in respect of intensive winter grazing are the areas where the grass doesn't grow in winter. So, obviously that's most prevalent in Southland, Otago and parts of Canterbury.
There are intensive winter grazing practices in some other areas which also can be problematic, so these same rules apply elsewhere.
Mackay: National agriculture spokesperson David Bennett said you're basically playing for time with this. What's your response to that?
Parker: No – the package has always contemplated that you can use an intensive winter grazing component of a farm plan to authorise your activities. I think it's notable that the Feds haven't said the same thing as David Bennett has said.
What we're trying to do is bring forward farm plans as an alternative to resource consents. Now the farm plan route eventually will have to have some rigour around it by certification and audit of, you know, people complying with what they say they will do to protect critical source areas for example.
We can't stand up those issues immediately – we always knew that – this group of Southland farmers and environmental NGOS like Fish & Game said that we should bring forward the farm plan route this year, rather than waiting for it to be done with all the bells and whistles in subsequent years and so we've taken that offer and we're running with it.
Listen below:
Mackay: Are you going to give ground on the three contentious issues -slope, pugging and sowing dates - or were these just red herrings you threw out there, not to put the farmers off the scent, but to give them a bit of a victory if you watered those down to get to your end goal, because that's what some cynics are suggesting, David.
Parker: No not at all. The advice I had was that was the appropriate way through. It's had some criticism of the 1 November replant date. We've already made some changes to pugging. So not at all.
We will in the next period – because not everyone will chose to go through the intensive winter grazing farm plan route, and we do need an alternative for people that don't want to take that route - so we will be looking at those specific rules in the NES.
But overall we're absolutely clear that the sediment that's been ending up in rivers and estuaries and - to be frank – severely degrading some of them – a major source of that has been intensive winter grazing practices.
We're pleased that the system is now on the move. It shouldn't have required regulatory action in order for farmers to do the right thing on this issue; it's a bit sad that it has to because, you know, no one wants regulation if it's not necessary, but sadly, things have got to where they've got to in the absence of regulation.
Mackay: I understand your drive to clean up our rivers. I think farmers are on board with this. They disagree on the timeframe and how you get there. I hope Minister Parker, you're going to be equally as tough on urban New Zealand. I went for a run ... along the Manawatū river ... a lot of pollution going into that river ... so what are you going to do about that?
Parker: They're bound by the same rules in the National Policy Statement on Freshwater, they've got the same timeframes to fix things up as the rural sector has.
I would note that in the Manawatū area, probably one of the most degraded lakes in New Zealand, is Lake Horowhenua.
I'm being sued by local iwi because I'm being too soft on farmers, including those that grow vegetables and the dairy sector.
So, yeah, am I being fair on both sides? I think so.
We're giving New Zealand a generation to overcome these problems and get back to closer to where we were a generation ago.
Mackay: David, you don't dislike farmers. That's a falsehood that's been thrown out there. Correct?
Parker: Correct.
Mackay: OK. There we go. David Parker, Minister for the Environment.
Parker: Do you want me to justify that statement?
Mackay: Well you can justify it. You justify it to me right now. You justify it to the farmers of this nation.
Parker: Farmers want the same things as I do. They want their local waterway to be clean so that their children and friends and themselves can use it and future generations can.
I camp at the courtesy of farmers by rivers. I've got a history of advocacy for farm interests and trade. My business career before politics involved doing things from and for the farming sector to add value.
I'm happy in my knowledge of my own values and they're not anti-farmer but they are anti-pollution.
Just remember that when it comes to St Helliers Bay and beaches like that as well. David Parker thank you very much for your time on …
Parker: Of course I do! I'm as hard on those areas as – Auckland Councils' bought forward 2 billion dollars of expenditure to help clean up their waterways and beaches so they're starting to do their bit too.
