Nick Paterson, the new CEO of Drug Free Sport New Zealand.
In 2003, Nick Paterson watched Lance Armstrong win the fifth of his seven Tour de France titles from the Champs Elysees in Paris. Drug Free Sport New Zealand's new chief executive describes himself as "a huge cycling fan". That included a love for what Armstrong appear to achieve after surviving testicular cancer.
"It was a fantastic day. To live in London, get the train to Paris in comfort before buying a baguette, some cheese and some bubbles and sitting on the side of the road watching international cycling ... that was outstanding."
Now Paterson sums up his emotions about the subsequently discredited cheat in a word.
"Gutted."
The 42-year-old father-of-three sat down with the Weekend Herald two days into the role he inherited from Graeme Steel, the man who had led New Zealand sport's fight against doping since 1989.
Paterson has been in New Zealand "almost 14 years", moving not long after that Paris sojourn.
As a qualified accountant, his work background includes managing investigations at Ernst & Young and the Serious Fraud Office before getting seconded to the Gambling Commission from October 2016.
The anti-doping industry offers a fresh challenge, but Paterson says the premise is similar.
"All you can do is put the best evidence forward, whether it's to a judge or a sports tribunal. This is not about a personality, charisma or good character test; this is about who is doping in sport and breaking the rules."
Does he believe human nature is fundamentally flawed?
"I suspect a decent chunk of human nature is not so much flawed as lazy. If there's a quick way of doing things, people will find it.
"From my business risk background, if you set up a procedure to achieve an outcome you've got to go from box 'a' to 'b' to 'c' to 'd' to 'e' so it's safe and secure. A worker who's doing that might see box 'a' and 'e' and say 'let's ignore the rest'. That can also be an example of innovation, but it comes with risk.
"If some people can take a substance to avoid that hard work, they will, which is unethical and destroys the process for everybody else."
Paterson does not believe DFSNZ's role in the doping game is to be "the police".
He wants a collaborative approach with national sports organisations, players' associations and athletes to get the best results.
"We need to support clean athletes, that's what we're here for. If we were just testing and taking action against adverse findings then we'd be the police force at the end of the line.
"There has to be something in it for all parties, otherwise it's unsustainable. To work as a regulator we've got to start with education, communication, deterrence and detection.
"For instance, if you have got quantities of illegal substances coming across the border, the likes of Customs and Medsafe will have an interest. It's not a good use of our resources to have 20 positive athletes if you can stop drugs at the source. We're set up to test for the users, but if you can go further up the chain it makes more sense."
Paterson says their preventative approach extends to last week's debate whether DFSNZ should be testing at September's Top Four secondary schools rugby tournament at Palmerston North.
"As a parent of three kids, I understand that can potentially be confronting.
"The facts are we breed outstanding rugby players, first-five after first-five, and apparently the other 14 positions too," he says with a laugh.
"We call them 'kids' at 16 or 17 years old but these are big outstandingly-talented men who are about to hit elite sport. We know from overseas the risks are there and supplements are being taken. If we want to talk about 'best practice' we need to apply that logic here. That means testing."
Paterson would much rather have DFSNZ seen as responsible for testing school children, than discovering doping was happening when they weren't looking.
"The issue I want to find out from players' associations and schools is 'how do we best address the problem, if there is one?' If there's not a doping problem, then let's find out by improving the education as well as doing the testing. Education and testing must go hand-in-hand.
"We shouldn't work in isolation from each other because each organisation wants the best sport, played by the best people on a level playing field.
"I understand people being taken aback by the change in approach, but I think we have a duty to do it."
Paterson sees the collaboration principle extending to the international stage to eradicate any repeats of last year's Russian systemic doping saga.
"As New Zealanders we can't do that alone, nor can the Americans, the Brits or the Russians. The only way that works is with people standing up together to lead that fight.
"We need to make sure we have a strong process with testing and support so we can start telling others how to do it, irrespective of whether there's doping here or not. If we can get international bodies holding each other responsible and accountable towards a single objective, you bring up the levels of quality."
Paterson grew up in England - he is a lifelong Tottenham Hotspur football fan who competed in rugby, hockey and on the track - but if his North and South Island cufflinks are a gauge, he has made a zealous Kiwi conversion.
"I played president's grade rugby once or twice, which was an eye opener when you're fresh to New Zealand. I wasn't quite expecting the turn of speed some people had relative to their size.
"Most recently, I've turned my attention to trail running, biking and paddling. I've done the two-day Coast to Coast and the Motu Challenge a couple of times.
"This place is home, it is the most stunning country.
"I'm still the person who sits in the window seat on a plane looking out, and if I can get out on the trails in the Waitakere Ranges on a Sunday, well, it's my happy place."