KEY POINTS:
Alinghi's president, Ernesto Bertarelli, has fired a shot at Team New Zealand over plans for any future America's Cup in New Zealand.
In an interview with the influential International Herald Tribune newspaper, the Swiss billionaire, takes issue with Team New Zealand's Grant Dalton over whether a New Zealand syndicate would reinstate a form of nationality rule if the Cup returns to Auckland.
He also said his crew had been the target of insults from New Zealand fans in Valencia.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Auckland
Hang on a minute, where is the proof? You are all talking like its been proved. Have you ever stopped and thought this is just a rich boy (not man) who has thrown his toys from his cot? You have all been sucked in to be thinking a small number of people who might have said it is every kiwi supporter over there. The Swiss are worried. Everyone says sui100 is fast, I have not seen any proof of this. Did Team New Zealand make out in 2003 their boat was fast? Yes, and it did everything but sink, so honestly know us, before you judge us! Go ETNZ!
Albatross (Sydney)
There's an overflow of nationalism expressed on these blogs. We here in Australia were privy to this excess in 1983 when Australia II came home with the chalice. Since the mid-1990s Australia has lost interest in the America's Cup. It's simply a race for ego-centric multi-billionaires and race syndicates. The Sydney-to-Hobart race and the Whitbread series seem to attract more interest from Aussies because they're races that the 'ordinary' sailor can champion. I'm quietly thankful that Australia has lost interest in this spectacle because it would no doubt bring out the same chest-thumping nationalists that we see promoting the kiwi flag in Valencia. So much for the Kiwi modesty you lot bang on about eh!
Adam
I have no idea what all the fuss is about. It is everyone's free will to slate the other side if they feel like it. All these kiwi good sorts gnashing their teeth because some other kiwis aren't "being fair" is embarrassing in itself. I feel that two very prominent sailors betrayed New Zealand and did it for money and glory. Now if they have to face the music later on, too bad. When Sol Campbell moved from Tottenham to Arsenal, the Tottenham fans burnt effigies of him from lamp posts. We're not there yet, are we? Go Kiwi supporters, say what you want, when you want to and don't worry what anyone else thinks.
OzbearJohn
Jeez you mob still can't talk about NZ without referring - mostly disparagingly, to Australia. Talk about chips on many shoulders! Go Wallabies!
Kiwi in Spain
Just to back up the others in my situation, I was in Valencia with my family for the LV cup, and I didn't see a speck of bad fans - everyone was just mega, mega supportive (as we were) with their array of signs and flags - personally, I don't see what Alinghi is on about.
JP in London
Kiwi fake modesty, get over yourselves. Good ol' Saint Helen has a lot to answer for. She keeps her charges in the dark doesn't she? The Swiss don't care about the Cup, they're not really that nationalistic you see. Here in London, all I'm hearing from excessively patriotic kiwis is how NZ produces the best sailors in the world, is the best country to live in (go figure with so many over here and a dire shortage of men in the country). Grow up, and do what the sophisticated world does, i.e. care not a sparrow for such petty competition.
One Tree Point (Auckland)
Who cares what Bertarelli thinks. That is the plain difference of having a committed patriotic nation behind you and the pack of hired "ex-Kiwi" mercenaries in his camp. I recall full well the smirk on Butterworth's face and verbal vitriol delivered to all New Zealanders after 2003. If you don't like it, get out of kitchen. Oh, what have the Swiss given the world., apart from hiding all the stolen Nazi loot and tax breaks for crooks, they don't even play rugby - let alone football - very well.
David
Switzerland is a funny country. I lived there for a while and found it to be a very civilized type of a country. The people are just as patriotic and proud as we are. Because the country has so much money they really don't care how they win the Cup. If it means they buy a few sailors here and there, well that's their business isn't it. If you were offered 10 million bucks you'd sail for Switzerland wouldn't you? In saying that, it would be nice to see NZ take the old Mug back, but personally I can't see this happening as there's too much money at stake. We maybe the best at sailing, but remember we're only a country of 4 million people so let's put that in perspective.
Auckland
Can't be wrong to point out the truth! Everyone keeps talking about it just being a rich mans sport so why does anyone care what is being said. The only thing that matters is having the event in Auckland. Hopefully with new nationality rules that will put a large number of these sailors out of this competition. And don't tell me they will be unemployed. There are plenty more sailing events to sail in. Just hope they don't come back home!
Palma de Mallorca
As proud Kiwis, we were in Valencia to support Emirates Team NZ. None of my crew noticed any poor behaviour by Kiwis and certainly our relationship with the local supporters is great. As for excess drinking and abuse, throughout Spain binge drinking is a common thing for young Spanish locals and we have had bottles thrown at our boat, but we don't condemn Spain for that. I am sure the odd Kiwi has had too much to drink but I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion by people. We were surrounded by Alinghi and Luna Rossa Supporters and we had no conflict. We have even been invited to visit some while in Europe, however even I heard some Luna Rossa supporters booing Emirates Team NZ. We will go back to Valencia to watch Team NZ win the America's Cup and as normal will be vocal and proud toward our team, but I think the Alinghi boss has blown it a bit out of proportion, and should concentrate on the sailing instead of media hype. Just to put this in perspective one of our guests on our boat for the Cup is actually Swiss and an Alinghi supporter.
Buck Adams (London)
This seems to be a bit of spin doctoring been whipped up by Beterelli. I am living in London and will be attending the America's Cup in Valencia in a few weeks. So what if his Alinghi Kiwis get a verbal spray from their countrymen whilst have a few drinks on the way. There are plenty of worse things we could be doing. Obviously the man is a bit worried that his "purchase" of the America's Cup may be under a bit of a threat from better team punching well above their budget. Until I see a riot where the America's Cup village is burned to the ground I will be joining in the festivities with our kiwi fans and show Ernesto what national pride is all about. Back to the Alps for you Frauline Maria!
TNZ fan
I've heard of much worse abuse happening at soccer games in Spain! Tsk-tsk. If there's nothing else to pick on except for a few bad egg kiwis (not in any way letting them off, however) then. Get over it! Get a life! It's not about them. Move on and let's watch the Cup! May the fastest boat win.
Raj (Wellington)
Well isn't Jasu just full of himself! Mate, I've spent time in Mumbai (plenty of it) and know being half-Indian that if anyone is blinded to their domestic behaviour it's people like you and the tens of thousands of local cricket hooligans and the like, who almost constantly bring the game into disrepute! And if we have such an isolation problem, why are Kiwi sailors in such high demand by international yachting syndicates? We are not always comparing ourselves to Australians so get your facts straight pal! I'm immensely proud to live in a country of only 4 million people as it's the quality and not the quantity that matters and suggesting we look across the Tasman for inspiration would be like asking Van Gogh to use a paint-by-numbers kit. Alas, if anyone is throwing stones, it's Mr Barterelli, as the thought of being shown up on the waters off Valencia begins to hit home. Kia kaha Team NZL!
Jasu (Mumbai, now Melbourne)
I've spent time in NZ and I think Kiwis generally are blinded to their domestic behaviour, and obviously their overseas behaviour when it comes to sportsmanship. That is part of your isolation problem. You are always comparing yourselves to Australians, always saying you are better, when in fact if you step back and look at yourselves - as is happening in Valencia - you are just as bad or worse as those you condemn. Whether it's rugby or cricket at Eden Park, and the throwing of bottles and cans by Kiwi fans at visiting players, you have to realise that you are not the exemplary types you like to think you are. There are only 4 million of you, imagine if there were 50 million, and a good third of you travelling at any given time. Take off your thin-skinned fake furs, and look across the Tasman. Grow a thick-skin or don't throw stones and expect them to be returned gently.
Sally Dumptruck.
I am embarrassed and ashamed to even consider that any NZer would disgrace our name as a fair and keen sporting mad country by getting pissed and shouting insults at Alinghi or any other competitor. I too feel betrayed by the actions of certain Kiwi sailors who promised so much but failed on the delivery. I cringe when I look at who we are up against in the Cup itself. It's almost Kiwi against Kiwi. But we all need to remember at the end of the day it's a bloody yacht race and as important as it may be we don't need to let ourselves down by looking childish in front of the rest of the world who are also looking on. Maybe CER is working and we are getting very close to our unsportsmanlike neighbours.
London
It seems tall poppy NZ syndrone strikes again from armchair NZ. Who could be as proud of TNZ than Kiwis living in Europe? Proud of their achievements and progress to date? It seems if we don't clap like at a home NZ rugby game (quiet and restrained) and instead get excited and intensely loyal we are looked down upon. I and others travelled to Valencia to cheer the lads on and if that means getting on the nerves of the PC brigade at home (and abroad) so be it. I am fiercely loyal while living away from home, and I will show it regardless of the PC brigade. Go NZ bring it home, 5 nil 5 nil 5 nil!
Stefan (Switzerland)
As a Swiss citizen and just a few days before the big showdown in Valencia, I should now be wearing Alinghi colours and supporting (at least mentally) our sailing team. But somehow - Kiwis probably don't understand that - I am not very enthusiastic about the America's Cup finals. And many Swiss people feel the same way, probably because sailing isn't really the kind of sport that we are famous for. Lacking access to the sea, it is just natural that Swiss have concentrated on other sports that are more suitable for Switzerland's geography (skiing, etc.). But the most important reason for low anticipation is probably because many Swiss are perfectly aware of the fact that Alinghi is only a Swiss syndicate, but not a Swiss sailing team and that the triumph in Auckland was only possible thanks to Bertarelli's wallet and to Russel Coutts' and other New Zealanders' sailing skills. So please, dear Kiwis, do not lump all Swiss together. Many of us are just looking forward to an exciting America's Cup. In the end, Kiwis will win, whether the cup goes to Alinghi or to Team NZ.
London
I was in Valencia for the finals and did not see any of the bad behaviour, simply good spirited kiwis. I suspect it is the few spoiling it for the rest of us and it's sensationalism that makes the headlines so we will inevitably hear about it. We could cheer also for Alinghi's New Zealand crew because it is a professional sport and they are kiwis who have reached the pinnacle of their profession. They should be cheered for their high achievements and for being great ambassadors for New Zealand and its ability to nurture and develop the world's best sailors. Alinghi team should also be applauded because a prize that is more hard fought over is a more worthy prize.
Alex
What's all the fuss about? This is the America's Cup, big money and win at all costs after all. Comments like this are all part of the fun, don't be so sensitive. If people don't like the gamesmanship maybe they should go back to knitting or playing scrabble.
Invercargill Kiwi
We are an ocean nation. Sailing is what we do. Nothing boiled my blood more than to have Kiwis corrupted and bought off by that Bertarelli in the last Cup. It's good we're seeing justice this time around. It is a national event just like the Olympics. In the America's Cup we have competition because there are national teams, it's not some corporate competition, it's national. This isn't some corporate fantasy challenge, it's a national team challenge and all our hearts are in it for New Zealand. Bertarelli is doing stage one of his psychological warfare. This is not a time to become flustered, insecure or distracted. All Kiwis should be aware of his game and be pulling smartly and solidly for Team New Zealand. We will win.
Dave the Kiwi
After working in the Middle East and being a very proud NZer following the kiwi sports across the world. I am very dismayed and saddened by a low standard of common behaviour and below the belt sportsmanship by the fellow New Zealand fans in Spain. New Zealand has and always breeds "the tall poppy syndrome". The kiwis for Alinghi and the kiwis in Emirates Team NZL should be "publicly" ashamed of this low behaviour. Even reading the comments by some in this editorial is really quite sad. Men are investing heavily in this sport and so be it, either way it's putting NZL on the global map.
Pacifikiwi
Shame on you ex-pats who say we are terrible sportsman. Live in Oz and realise who are the biggest sooks in sports. Be taunted by people who forget their past, and treat Nzers as second rate who tell me our mothers are sheep. Yeah, so why shouldn't kiwis show their feelings? My goodness, we don't really get put in the face of a world audience to often. Yes the nationality rule should be invoked take it back to the original reason of the Cup, nation against nation. Go all them Black Teams in the different sports, proud and loud for you, wherever you perform.
Kiwi in Dublin
I was in Valencia during the first races of the LV Cup semis. I stayed with a kiwi friend who worked for one of the other syndicates. Not once did I hear or see any bad behaviour by other fellow kiwi supporters. Nor did my friend comment on anything he had seen either. I think Mr B. is a little worried the cup has a chance to head back down-under. This is by no means a certainty, but lets hope it becomes reality. As to a comment made by a Kiwi in Valencia likening Kiwi's to that of Chelsea supporters - get off the grass mate! Being at the FA Cup final was a real eye opener for a little kiwi boy like me when it comes to passionate/crazy support. Without the kiwi support there the place would be dead, as was the case during the semis. Go get em' boys!
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