KEY POINTS:
Did the best team win the 32nd America's Cup? Should Team New Zealand mount another challenge? Is Brad NZ's best sportsperson?
Here is a selection of Your Views:
Boomshanka
Butterworth is one of NZ's leading sportsmen. ETNZ did a fantastic job in challenging for the cup. It's quite simple really, boo-hoo to the haters.
Andy (London)
Butterworth is a disgrace to NZ. I see he's quoted as saying him and his turncoat mates are staying with Alinghi because "we've got a good tight unit, we're all mates and built a great team here. Why would we change that?". Where was this team loyalty 8 years ago, mate? As for all the whingers regarding the $10m should be spent on the poor, or minority sports, etc, what a load of bollocks. Firstly, $10m in handouts is what would be a waste of money. Secondly, what minority sports should we waste money on? Our soccer team, volleyball, tiddlywinks? The two sports that get the majority of the money are our sailors and rugby teams. This is because they have proving time and again that they are world leaders in their chosen sports and will regularly be challenging for world titles. Winners get the spoils, losers get nothing that's just life people, harden up. When our cricket, basketball, soccer teams etc can regularly compete at international level then they'll get the money and sponsorship (bit of a catch-22 as you need the money to compete). Having a good season every 10 years just doesn't cut it in my book. What did NZ soccer do with the opportunity after the '82 world cup? Nothing.
Sylvester
Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Get over it. All this negativity ain't going to win the Cup next time around, that's for sure. The underlying message from all this verbiage seems to be ETNZ would have won if Brad Butterworth hadn't have gone to Alinghi. I'm sure he's very flattered and very grateful for the compliment.
Keogh5 (Sydney)
New Zealand is the true winners of the America's Cup. The team did us so proud, coming back from the awful defeat of 2003, and showing such determination in all 7 races. Dalts has to be credited with this huge turnaround he is a brilliant leader, truly determined and inspirational. Barker as well has shown amazing courage, determination and loyalty to New Zealand (unlike others we could mention!). I was at the ETNZ open day on Anniversary weekend and spoke to both these people they are genuine Kiwi guys. I love the way the team is accessible and not made up of arrogant rich plonkers, like Alinghi. The level of skill shown by all of ETNZ was outstanding, all the AC races were so close and thrilling it was just that luck seemed to be not on our side always especially in that final race. I am so proud of what ETNZ has achieved and of the genuine sportsmanship shown by them, unlike Alinghi and BB & co. ETNZ could have done everything and more than NZ could have possible hopped for. The team gave 110 per cent at al times. Thank you for some amazing yachting and best of luck for the next challenge. I know ETNZ will be back just as strong for the next one in 2009.
Ben (UK)
Q: Should Team New Zealand mount another challenge?
A: Absolutely we've demonstrated for several decades now we develop some of the best sailors in the world. How the Cup was organised and televised when it came to Auckland has been one of the catalysts for the resurgence in popularity and widespread appeal. It is absurd to think that the $10m government funding isn't being put to good use. If, or rather when, the Cup does come back look at the economic benefit it brings to the economy I seem to recall it being in the very high hundreds of millions last time, and no it doesn't all go to Auckland. $10m on one sport we are brilliant at is better than $100k on 100 sports we aren't good at, will never be good at, and will never benefit the country to the same extent that an America's Cup win would.
Q: Is Brad NZ's best sportsperson?
A: Quite possibly (he has won and defended the worlds oldest sporting trophy four times over 16 years) but then I also think he ranks alongside the other guys with Alinghi who have won the America's Cup four times. Simply because Brad went to Alinghi doesn't mean he should miss out on recognition of some form or another by the country it would be very mature of us to do so. Fine, they sold out when they went to Alinghi but surely some of the blame for that lies with the old Team NZ syndicate who failed to retain them. Simply because they went to another team for commercial reasons should eliminate them from NZ recognition (would we recognise Scott Dixon if he won F1 for McLaren and then not recognise him the following year if he jumped ship, no pun intended, and went to Ferrari).
Q: Did the best team win the 32nd America's Cup?
A: Yes that is why the score board read 5-2. ETNZ did a brilliant job but they were outclassed by a better team.
Elizabeth Marshall
I'm currently in Hong Kong and there has been little coverage of the yachting. It seems to be so unimportant in this part of the world! Now I see NZ is going to have another go, hope my tax doesn't have to pay for it.
N8 Dawg!
Dean Barker and his crew were (and excuse my French) bloody fantastic. They fought what was always going to be a tough fight, right until the very end. And on that last race, they managed to make such a come back in the final minute that, had minor errors not been made earlier (emphasis on minor), we would have won. So too right Team NZ is the best. At least we didn't have a go at the Spanish who were supporting their team.
Plunger
The best team did not win the America's Cup. We had the best team. But the best tactician won the America's Cup. That was Brad.
Ffred
I'm reminded of a line from film The Third Man in which Orson Wells comments about Switzerland all they can produce is cuckoo clocks. And without the New Zealanders wouldn't have got the America's Cup.
Walter (Kaikoura)
A syndicate should only be allowed to use a national flag in case 30-40 per cent of their crew on the boat is from the syndicate's country. In case of Alinghi 30-40 per cent on the boat must be Swiss. Every year more country introduce this procedure in team sport to make sure the countries recruit new and enough talented juniors for the sport.
Auck, NZ
Firstly let me say that ETNZ did an awesome job, they should be proud of what they have accomplished as a team and know that the country is behind them 100 per cent. As for the race, too much sour grapes for my liking, I still am peeved that Butter worth gets his mitts on the cup once again.. I'm sure he has conveniently forgotten the millions of dollars raised by ordinary Kiwis to help him challenge for the America's Cup and allow him to enjoy the position he now sits in today. If people were to look at all the previous challenges made by TNZ and the backing they got from the country as a whole, they will understand why we felt so burned in 2003 and why the country's ugly side came out for all to see.
Tony Hollis (Thames)
Before Coutts & Co left we looked unbeatable. If they'd stayed we'd probably still have the cup now. We feel good now about coming second. It's likely if we retain the current personnel that's about where we'll remain perennial second place. It's a bit like the All Blacks once everyone started going overseas and showing them how to do it. We haven't won a world cup since. Like the yachties, they were undervalued in their own country and had to leave to prove their worth. It's a far cry from where we could be. If Coutts goes to Oracle, he'll lead them and teach them how to do it. Then we'll be battling for third. We're in danger of permanently losing a whole generation of the cream of NZ's yachting talent, and their children. If Russell wants to bring his knowledge, leadership style, (and children) back to NZ we should make great efforts to let it happen. Come on Helen show some real vision to be poll driven is to make decisions on the average person's knowledge so you tend to get a mediocre result.
Vectusian
Coutts and Butterworth were not true kiwi's when they sold development in the yachting out of the hands of New Zealande for a handful of gold pieces. Which in turn deprived New Zealanders of earning money for their families and keeping New Zealand ahead in the marine field.
Cheryl
Of course we will be at the next America's Cup. I still believe that Dean Barker is every bit as good a sailor as Brad Butterworth, given that he is a lot younger and a lot more good looking! Grant Dalton has done and fantastic job the team should be as proud of what they have achieved as New Zealand is of them. Plus we are much better sports than the Alinghi team Bertosmelli and Butternut!
Madarab
Butterworth is no NZ Sportsman and I can't see how anyone can draw a comparison between Butterworth's treachery and some Polynesians playing for the All Blacks. Auckland is the world's largest Polynesian city and most of the players have lived here for many years, if not generations. When New Zealand beats Fiji, Samoa or Tonga in rugby it has no financial impact on either country. If anything it financially benefits the islands as most import players send their families their salary. Butterworth on the other hand learned his match racing trade with the generosity of New Zealand. He then defected taking both human and valuable TNZ technological resource with him. He then used these to come back and win the cup off us, thus taking the massive economic benefits away from New Zealand. That's the point he became just a traitor.
Japan
BB is not NZ best sportsperson, maybe the richest, but not the best. The America's Cup is an elitist sport for the wealthy. It's a joke but it does bring money into the country when the series are being held. The Herald should have worthy issues to discuss not this rubbish.
e.g. Why can't first homebuyers get into the market? What is the govt/RB going to do when all our exporters pack up and leave?
Lilli
Really come to think of it, I don't know why you even asked your readers if Brad Butterworth is NZ's best sportsperson. It's such a silly question. I felt sad to read about Team NZ not being invited at the presentations. Maybe that's the Swiss way, or the organiser's way, we don't know. All I know is that in NZ, the team that comes second are honoured also at the stage. I guess this was too much to expect. To Grant, Dean and co: despite the outcome, our congratulations and we wish you all the very best for next time. Our love to you all.
Kiwi (Thailand)
To George the whinging pom from Singapore, don't bring rugby into this, this is about yachting mate. And take a look at your own useless rugby team. I don't blame you old son for making Swiss land your new home. Who wants to live in England? Land of warm beer, bad weather and whingers. You more than likely have a criminal record and can't go home to your motherland (like most of the poms living here in Thailand). I thank my lucky stars that my local Aussie and Kiwi bar here in Bangkok dosen't welcome poms. Not wanted in England and not wanted anywhere.
Transtasman ribbing
Oh so desperate the crowing from across the Tasman over our latest America's Cup defeat, how we love to put the boot into each other when one another is down. So lets take a look at the record, and put this into perspective.
Australia: since 1962 has sailed 42 Americas Cup final races and only won 6 of them (14 per cent) Australia has not even made the finals in their last 5 attempts at the cup (but you did manage to gain the media spotlight when you sank in one of them).
New Zealand: since 1988 has sailed 24 Americas Cup final races and won half of them (50 per cent) NZ has made the finals in 5 out of our total of 7 attempts.
Go the Boks this weekend.
Alister (Melbourne)
The two best yachting crews in the world are a product of the NZ sailing system and the clubs that support it. The individuals that form those crews are the product of that system, not the other way around. Just as with other sports NZ competes in at the same level. Logic says that so long as maintain that system and fund / support it appropriately then this will continue and the results will come. Valencia 2009? Of course.
Nzausse
Congratulations Anthony Gibbons your comments are absolutely correct. You should be Prime Minister but unfortunately you are sailing to close to the wind. Truth, honesty and common sense are unfortunately not a prerequisite to being a minister in most governments, including NZs.
Flato (Hong Kong)
When Coutts & Co. defected in 2000 they took more than just their own abilities overseas. They took with them all the Team NZ accumulated design & technical knowledge from the best part of a decade of IACC sailing. I think it is worth noting that if such a thing had happened in a less egalitarian country than NZ there is a high probability that one or more of the "Swiss Bankers" would have had a bullet in his head quite some time ago. Can you imagine the scenario if half of the Brazilian world cup soccer team defected to the US soccer team & the US subsequently won the world cup. Or perhaps half of the Aussie cricket team enticed by money to play for England & they won the cricket world cup. They would all have to live under Salman Rushdie'esque security for the rest of their days. There are many kiwis who pedal their expertise overseas. But there are only a select few who act against their own country by doing so, and seem to enjoy doing it.
Plunger
Brad Butterworth is Switzerland's best sportsman.
Ross
Brad Butterworth must think Grant Dalton did a great job given he is having a go at him by saying Team NZ is autocratic!
Anna (London)
It never ceases to amaze me as to the degree of national narcissism that pervades NZ. Always having to remind yourselves that you've got the best rugby captain and team, that you are the best sailors in the world. Then the reminders about how you are the best sports/most graceful losers -- oh, the irony -- if only you could see past your parochial nose to view it. Grown up individuals and nations simply don't carry on like this.
Taylor (Switzerland)
Dean Barker and his Team sailed very intelligently and aggressively. In the start phases the very smart skipper Dean outwitted Ed Baird regularly. Unfortunately they didn't make it this time yet. But they gonna get it next time.
Keep reaching for the stars.
From a Swiss who lived a long time in NZ. Missing the country very much.
Madarab Hasab Omb
"Sportsman" a person who exhibits qualities especially esteemed in those who engage in sports, as fairness, courtesy, good temper, etc. Butterworth is probably the worlds best match racing tactician but the notion that he is either a sportsman or a New Zealand competitor are wrong. In addition Fred (Switzerland) previous suggestion that it wasn't the Kiwi sailors that won the cup and that it was the Swiss designers. Rolf Vrolijk (NED) and Mike Drummond (NZ) aren't Swiss and were key to the boat design, in fact only 3 of the 16 Alinghi designers were Swiss, which is 2 more than Swiss sailors on the boat. At least you got involved this time, however small it was (which is far more than you did in WW2).
Galen (West Virginia, USA)
One must excuse the Europeans for their slight of the Kiwi team, it's their first cup defence and they have a bit to learn regarding manners and ceremony. As for the best Kiwi sportsman I'm not a Kiwi so it's not for me to say, but may I suggest that a team who never gave up and showed that to the world by coming from behind, completing a 270 deg. penalty turn and crossing the line just barely behind the winners might be better candidates than a group of mercenaries that ditch their country for money. Great sailing, ETNZ!
CH
We never really looked like we were going to take it! We were contenders and that's the way it panned out.
Well done on effort. All of this will drift into obscurity! A new generation of Kiwis may look at it some time later but New Zealand will never have the cup in their hands again. The next generation of Kiwi's won't even know what the hype is about. Let's just celebrate that we gave it a go! Failed terribly again but hey - may the best Ex=kiwi sailors win. Butterworth? Butter not be!
Team NZ fan
It was heartbreaking to see everyone especially Dean, so upset after the loss - it moved my family and I to tears. I'm not sure what the rest of the world saw but we in NZ saw the devastation Grant and Dean had and to have that much emotion showed they had put everything into it and gave it everything. I've listened to talkback over the past few days and Dean & Grant, I can honestly say the majority of the country is proud. Sure there is a small minority that are whinging but that's what kiwi's can be and we cut people down like tall poppies. This will all die down and the people's upset at the loss will fade quicker than the 2003 disaster. The people who moan are not intelligent enough to know just how great this team is to the country. Team NZ is a brand, like the All Blacks. Get a brain.
Desert Rat (Dubai)
1. Did the best team win the 32nd America's Cup?
2. Should Team New Zealand mount another challenge?
3. Is Butterworth NZ'S best sportsmen?
1. Yes, it's obvious, tactically far superior.
2. No, waste of government funding 10 mil that goes to a hobby that only has commercial value. 10 mil could go along way to enhance the minority sports or even assist in development of NZ's sporting individuals that are struggling to find funding to compete.
3. "Whatever". Two campaign wins and he is promoted to king. The ABs 37 tests out of 41, NZ hockey Team into the Challenge cup final, NZ Women's hockey team 5th, NZ Rowers Gold medals, but wait there's more - NZ Triathletes at the moment competing in the world series, and the list goes on. A sportperson/s is the best when they are competing against true adversity. Can hardly call America's Cup racing true adversity, pampered and preemed I call it.
Simon
To Guy from the UK, well said. At the end of the day it was a glorious spectacle of a hard-fought contest between two crews at the absolute pinnacle of their game, and unfortunately someone had to lose, just as someone had to win. The America's Cup is turning from an elitist spectacle that few people understood into one of the most fascinating spectator sports of our time, thanks in part to the meteoric rise in communications technology. Both Alinghi and ETNZ should be proud that now millions across the globe follow their fortunes with avid interest. Bring on Valencia 2009!
Simon
To all those New Zealanders who are complaining that Bertarelli is a bad sportsman. Go back to the videos of the 2003 campaign and listen to the four-letter abuse hurled at Alinghi as they left the viaduct each day, and which finally lead to Ernesto Bertarelli describing Auckland as "a zoo". After that, exactly what is it that you think he owes you?
Anthony Gibbons
Thanks for the thrilling ride Grant, Dean and crew. Wouldn't have missed sleep deprived nights and excess coffee esp. after that 5 am'er - for nothing! Yep. Let's do all again. And next time I'll be in Valencia myself to cheer you (at least 2 years to save up). Yes, I am gutted by the result. 5-2 doesn't begin to reflect ability or skill, but just that Alinghi made some better tactical decisions on the day and helped by a spinnaker rip and a change of wind direction. That's Lady Luck. Nothing in it. Go for it again guys. But also congratulations to Alinghi (they just happened to be better on the day). Let's be gracious in defeat even if Ernesto was not so in victory (reference to yesterday). $34M a waste of taxpayers money? Absolutely not! It probably doesn't even cover 10 minutes of social welfare in this country. Tote up how much the likes of Sharon Salt and her 'litter' of offspring has cost this country (welfare, police, housing, legal aid, tribunal hearings). The $$$s might not be much different when added up and probably will continuing doing so. Plenty of others like the Salts out there. At least ETNZ have already put something back through taxes paid on supplies procured (in NZ and shipped to Spain),PAYE etc. Plus 'Brand NZ' has been put out there on the world stage to a market who can afford what we offer - and may now desire to purchase NZ goods and services. So I don't think the money is wasted at all. We have comparative advantages in so many areas, sailing (and boat-building) being just one niche. Let's capitalise on that for all NZ to build a bigger, stronger economy - as opposed to sinking into a flat-earth mentality as some would have us do. Health and Social Welfare budgets, for the whingers out there, will always be a big gaping sinkhole as there are plenty of people out there who simply will not take responsibility for their own well-being. These people make decisions to either educate themselves or not. To smoke and/or drink to excess - or not. To want to get ahead - or not. Don't blame/ envy others because you don't like the way your life has turned out. Every action, or inaction, has a consequence. Take some responsibility. At least the ETNZ team have gone out there and done their very best to achieve a goal. And along the way have inspired a whole lot of Kiwis and others. That's all I ask of them. Rest easy ETNZ but be sure to pick yourselves up and get planning that next challenge. No moping or acrimony like in 2003, please - it just isn't necessary. And to Terry Hutchinson, tactician and new-Kiwi, a special message: forgive yourself. You did you best - now move on to the next cup (and stay tight with ETNZ pls. You did well).
Nomis (Sydney)
What courage, what humility, what class. All that optimises good people and good sporting folk since time began has been constantly displayed by the entire Kiwi challenge team. It seems somewhat ironic that a country that has purported to maintain such high standards of integrity - such is the persona of Switzerland - should display such unsportsman like behaviour as exhibitioned by the after-race press conferences debacle. But of course Switzerland is not Bertarelli - so Swiss people should not be offended but urged to guide him on decorum - should it distressingly be that the dollar (or all the other currencies of the world) break down and conquer the final bastion of good manners - especially in victory.
Subsin
I am extremely proud of TNZ for the efforts they put in and for giving it a real shake. To all those who are bagging the boys, give them a break just think about how things were after 2003. They have done extremely well to get themselves off the canvas and have a go and should be celebrated. As for Butterworth Coutts and the rest of the mercenaries, good luck to them. What makes this group different to other sailors from around the world who sail for different nations is that they ripped the heart out of a proud nation when they jumped ship. I for one would never support TNZ if they came back. They sold out to the highest bidder, it's not as though they were earning peanuts before they left for Alinghi either. They are traitors to their own nation and should never be allowed to forget it. This is probably something all the foreigners posting here will never understand.
Charles
The question is whether Butterworth is NZ's best sportsperson and the answer should be no. In this instance he has not represented NZ and has vested his interests in the Swiss team. They did well and won and good on them but good on you Team NZ for giving them a great fight.
Sandy, supporter ETNZ (Plymouth, UK)
As a Brit I was in Auckland during the 2003 AC and the whole experience was just amazing. The Kiwis lost, but gear failure had a big part to play in that. They also had lost half of their team to the Swiss but you just knew that they were going to be the 2007 Challengers, and what challengers they turned out to be. Arguably Alinghi had a marginal speed advantage but Daltons' team were unlucky on more than one occasion and gave the Kiwis and their supporters one hell of a show, enough to wipe the smile of the Alihghi crew on more than one occasion. An AC without Team New Zealand is unthinkable. Team Emirate New Zealand just needed two seconds of luck and I am sure the result of the AC would have been different. Well done the Kiwis.
Margaret
Yes, we need to mount another challenge & as Chris Dickson said to have a more innovated design for the boat, suitable for the waters at Valancia, we are a proud nation & can win with the crew we have. If they re-hired Russell then Dean's job would be gone. We musn't lower ourselves to this level. Stick with the current crew. Leave it to Dalton to work out.
Daddyj
Whatever is said, for the hundreds of thousands of Kiwis supporting ETNZ it was about supporting what we think NZ stands for, hard work, loyalty to country and showing that we can stand up and compete. ETNZ did us proud. Grant Dalton and his team have reclaimed for the sport the values shattered by the generation before them. The young children of NZ will see them as heroes. They will hopefully emulate their values. For those that use all they have been gifted against their country for money and fame, for their kids and grandkids they leave a sad legacy.
Aquarius
It was a sad moment when we lost, not sad because we lost the cup, it's for the team as a whole, who faced such challengers along the way to be in the final. Deano and team, you have the passion and the guts and we will be ready to cheer you on in the next AC where ever its held. Anything can change. Brad Butterworth as best sportman for New Zealand? Not a show, he represented Switzerland and lets see if they honour him with that title?
Trevor Turnock
Butterworth and co do not even deserve a mention in our nations media in any way shape or form. What they did to Team NZ and Sir Peter Blake (a real NZ hero and icon) was and always will be unforgivable. They have dumped upon the country of their birth, education and opportunity in a way that has never ever been done before. I for one will never forgive or forget and having been a sailor for 25 years find their treatment of NZ as worthy of removing the right to call themselves as such. If it was down to me I would revoke their citizenship if it was possible. The Swiss have always profited by other countries misfortune and Bertarelli is no exception.
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