KEY POINTS:
Sky TV is set to shed close to a million viewers from its prime time Friday night rugby coverage over the course of this Super 14 rugby tournament.
This has led to a debate about what has gone wrong with rugby and why fans are turning off.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Murray MacDonald
I used to be a rugby fan..My family are a historic NZ rugby family but for the past five years or so all I have watched is the cricket and the NRL. I love the fact that NZ has an exciting,vibrant,competitive challenging team in the Australian rugby league.My mates and I...all rugby men ten years ago...want nothing more than to see the Warriors to wipe the smiles off the faces of those bloody Australians. Plus rugby league has changed.The sport is now much faster,dynamic and exciting than rugby and it is decided by tries...rugby has to learn from this. My grandfather will be spinning in his grave,but rugby league is now a far better sport.
Kane
Its the rules! Its so difficult to know who is getting penalised for what half the time. The game was good when it was simple. Penalties should be for the worst kind offence only anything less should be a free kick. I love rugby but I won't to a game because as a spectator you're disadvantaged when the ref makes a call you have no idea whats going on. Someone new to the sport would get put off straight away by the silly rules of the game. eg the 10 metre circle off side rule when the ball is kicked. If the player who kicks it makes the ground or regathers he should put his team onside surely? So many changes I can't list them all.
Justin
I live in the States right now, so don't get as much Rugby as I would like, so my views are based on what I get to read in the herald or see on Fox Sports. Three reasons, the first being too much of a great thing will kill the sport, a season that lasts over half the year doesn't keep interest and lowers the standard of the play. The second is the lack of limits placed on the professional game, players are being taken away and put back into their teams which changes the chemistry of a team, therefore effecting the standard of play. The third thing is, being the adventure seekers that most Kiwis are, we are looking for more than rugby has to offer right now, it just doesn't keep us interested, bring the speed back into the game, and let the players make contact again.
Romaine
NZ rugby players have never been better. They are just starting to realise their potential. Colin Meads would get his face re-arranged every week if he was playing the way he did today, and that's after he ruptures a spleen trying to keep up. So, as a spectacle to watch, rugby should be going gangbusters. It's much better than seeing those league guys' endless girations after they have been tackled. The problem is what many others have said: scrums, refs, unpenalized cheating (offsides mostly), amateurish, armchair-type commentators with zilch personality or brains, over-the-hill, negative journos and the overall way the game is packaged. Anytime someone is being lauded as one of the AB's best players, just because he can push in the scrum a few inches more than the other guy, i.e., Carl Hayman, the game has problems. If the ABs lose the World Cup this year we should all just stop watching rugby forever.
Priyan Rajapaksa
I went off watching back in 2003 when it was still the Super 12. The same teams playing each other twice, every year is a bore and then the same guys play each other in the SANZSA matches. They look jaded after so many games. You could see the loss of interest in their faces, when the All Blacks lost the World Cup Semi-final in 2003. The IRB seems to have turned what was a gourmet meal in to a bland Pizza. And Please, Please, Please can they do away with those two silly guys who do a totally unnecessary and boring "build up" to the SANZSA games, week after week. That extends TV time, with the repetition of past games and commercials by about an hour, and probably when the game commences viewers may already be at boredom point and reaching for the remote. PS I am of Sri Lankan origin and have even gone off Jayasuriya playing his 200th + game.
Kerry ww
Try living half way around the world and not being able to watch rugby. You appreciate it once you lose it. And a three hour game of American 'football' is hardly a good substitute.
Pierre
I believe that super 14 rugby is a bit of an overkill. Expand it to 16 teams and split it into 2 logs. That way you can add pacific islands and arg. teams. then top 2 teams play semi and final. Refereeing is a problem. No SA/NZ/Aus/ARG refs should be used. The rules on the ground (where everyone is playing the ball/ not releasing/ off feet etc is problematic) and should be reviewed. For all your readers complaints about refs, SA teams get penalised twice as much as overseas teams (check it over the last ten years). A bigger problem is what they are not blowing! More relevant "on screen" info could also be handy. Lastly, please spare us this NZ attitude that they believe they so great. When last have they win a world cup? Or anything noteworthy? or are they just Chokers!
Rob
Too much rugby? A winter sport? The refs suck? What a bunch of whingers. Why don't you all move to Ozzie or the U.S or some other lame-arse country and then you'll find yourself with a really boring 'stop-start' national sport!I suspect you whingers were never true fans of the sport. The S14 is better than ever and totally addictive. Its the most skillful, complete sport in the universe. Get on board, it should be 24/7, all year round. Screw the cricket season.
Mike Kerr
One word describes rugby for me.. Frustration. I am sick and tired of over zealous referees unable to read the flow of the game. Petty penalties dealt out game after game which often have an unfair bearing on the outcome of a game. I see many players just as confused about the situation. All my friends comment on their inability to follow the refereeing decisions. Part of the enjoyment of watching sport is being able to follow the play and understand the reason for a ruling. this is not possible any more in Rugby. Dare I say it? League is far easier to follow and in my book, better value for your money.
Dave Wallace
I am dismayed at the fact that rucking has been removed from the game. It should be encouraged rather than banned. Rucking speeds up the breakdown and provides quick ball. It would do much to cure the 'tackled ball' issue, which is why many people, including me, are not watching as much rugby.
Andrew Schmidt
I agree with a lot of the previous people re. Early season, bad scrum rules, rubbish teams. But I think another big reason people are turning of Skys presentation is because of the rubbish presentation they offer. Poor and boring build up, and as for the commentators..Do SKY do any market research!?! I have not met a single person that rates the opinions of Stu Wilson, John Drake, Ian Jones etc. Maybe they have some good views, but they certainly cant get them across in an interesting way. NZ commentators just toe the NZRU line, never say anything even slightly controversial, never say anything funny, never get excited.....compare this to the NRL commentators and presentation, much more exciting and interesting, whether the game is close or not.
Lee
Nothing's gone wrong with rugby it's always been a crap game and always will be. Now football (what you call soccer)- that's the beautiful game!
Shane Duncan
From my point of view nothing has gone wrong with Rugby. I have probably watched more Super 14 this year that previously. I think that it has been refreshing to see new faces in the NZ teams. I have enjoyed watching the next wave of new talent coming through & filling the gaps left by the reconditioning squad. It has also been a incentive to watch the AB's coming back, just to see what effect the recondtioning has had on the players. I wonder if a closer inspection has been done to see if there has been a larger fall in ratings for the games the NZ teams have been involved in vs the overall super 14 ratings before we start laying blame at the reconditioning periods door.
Peter McCombe
The increased power of referees who are supposed to be part of a united voice but insist on each individual having their own interpretation which they then change week by week. They then expect each team to adjust to their weekly whims.This is killing rugby The temporary solution.Pick out the minimum no of rules to allow the game to proceed. State to the referees the exact way to apply these rules.J udge each referee weekly the main criteria being to allow the game to flow and how impartially they apply the rules.Long term get two top ex-players from the main playing nations to redo the rule book and keep the
referees out of this group.If you want to fix the scrum,rucks amuls etc. ask the Forwards.If you want more flowing play ask the Backs.
Norman Churcher
Fifty years ago, NZ didn't have television. We had years between Lions and Springbok tours (and the anticipation as they neared was electric). But we had a thriving provincial and club scene. The Ranfurly Shield was king. Solution to present woes: kick rugby off the box and find a way to resurrect the late, great Winston McCarthy. No-one called them on radio like him. Who needed TV?
Andrew
I think this has something to do with the professional era which as with most sports shifts the sport away from passion and focuses it on money. Sure the professional era has allowed players to focus on their game full time and has lifted the skill level but that doesnt always help the game. It appears to me that there are no heroes in the game anymore, I find it hard to pick out players in the modern game who could be put alongside the likes of Meads, Shelford or Fitzpatrick. It seems that the 'hardman' character and sense of pride of the players of old is gone from the game being replaced with a 'I'll play but whats in it for me' attitude. The disappointing thing about Rugby is that its our national game, and we all seem to come together around it, but we cant even get free live coverage of it because its all about viewing rights and money. Lets bring back the heroes of old, lets kick the Made in China adidas jerseys and clothe our boys in the old kiwi made CCC jerseys, lets make it live free coverage, and lets bring Rugby back to its roots.
Jakes
I played the game for 24 years and loved it, but am also losing interest now. What we see too much of now, is not rugby, but a money-generation exercise for the corporates. The scrum rules, whether it be ruck/loose/maul or set are a shambles. The refs are trying the impossible to apply the nonsensical complicated rules, but ignoring the simple ones like forward passes (epidemic these days), players ahead of the ball at kick-offs, crooked scrum feeds and sheperding. Rugby should be played in the season it's designed for. Not February in the Southern Hemisphere. Real rugby supporters want more quality rugby played in dew-absent afternoons and not TV-dictated evenings. Reduce the quantity and it will fit into the season. Last year's extra round in the Tri-Nations is another example of corporate greed, rather than necessity. IRB & Corporates... you are killing rugby !
Jason Rabbitt
There's just too much rugby. The only event of interest outside of the World Cup is the Lion's tour and what a downer that was! However is this any different to cricket or any other professional sport? Cricket has found an answer in the 2020 version, will rugby?
Nick Burtenshaw
It's the price you have paid for professionalism. Rugby is driven now not by what is best for the game or the players, but by how much money can be made. So in the last year there has been so much saturation of this level of rugby that it has become mundane. I miss a gme this week - so what there are another 5 or 6 next week. Super 10 Super 12 Super 14 how long before we get to Super 16? The Tri-nations have increased the number of games (with exception of this year - World cup year) why to generate more money. Even the players think it is too much. Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden egg - well the boys have just dome that with the Rugby.
Harry Kay
The matches are not flowing and therefore frustrating to watch. It is constantly interrupted by: 1)Too many rules that allow the referee to blow his whistle too often. 2)The ball being constantly kicked from one end of the field to the other. This is particularly frustrating when one team struggles for ages to get close to the try line, only for the defence to kick it away. 3)The constant resetting of the scrums. Too many directions. The "pause" is so unnecessary. 4)Not enough tries. Most people come to watch tries but the "get out of jail free card" i.e. the kick away, spoils most of them.
Chris
It's boring, it's the same competition as it was a decade ago. Marshall was right, the super 14 was the wrong move and the Heinekin cup is fall apart as well. We need a champions league, an uber competition that will allow for teams to play new teams each year, or at least have a larger pool of teams that play. It wouldn't be that hard, rugby bosses are just making up excuses when they say no to anything outside SANZAR, and an international window could overlap and this would force development, also there could be a maximum number of games per player to allow for suitable time to rest. Super 14 is boring, it is that simple.
Katoey Analyst
I agree with most of the posts presented so far. A general consensus seems to be: 1)Season starts too early, other sports available. 2) Poor S14 individual/team skills. 3) Poor refereeing. 4) TV saturation. 5) Lack of genuine excitement.For me it's the quality of refereeing that is the crux of the matter. The IRB has consistently made poor law changes in an endeavour to allow less developed rugby Nations to compete at the highest level. This policy, though a PR success as it presses all the correct political buttons, is a disaster for honest rugby. Effectively Refs have been instructed to manufacture close score lines in the hope that this will encourage the weaker teams to improve. Wrong. The end result is a general lowering of standards, thus dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator. The stronger teams don't prosper equal to their skill or endeavour and the weaker teams falsely believe that they are actually competitive. The public are not fooled by this anymore. I and many friends are now able to pick the exact time in matches when the Ref turns the worm, where suddenly there is a "courageous" fight back by a well beaten team, ably assisted by a steam of scrum/ruck/maul/penalty decisions that inevitably go the losing teams way for a period of 15-30 minutes, however long it takes to get the score lines unfairly even again. Team managers, coaches and players are fully aware of this unwritten rule, the best of whom actually plan game strategy around this phenomenon unknown to any other team sport. My point is that Refs now dominate the game, not by refereeing the game in applying the law (spirit and fact) for everyone's enjoyment, but by managing the desired end result.Paddy O'Brian has been appointed to investigate and improve fundamental changes to the Refs roll in modern rugby. I for one hope that he succeeds for all our benefit, but the good ship IRB does not turn in a sprightly manner as the new politically correct scum laws ably demonstrate. This policy is killing the game now for the public and will consign Rugby Union forever to a bit part in worlds sports simply because it has become unsporting.
The Rock
The decline in viewers? I am a old fashioned kiwi bloke just like the other, Rugby will always be our national game and I'll continue to watch it every weekend, the super 14's decline in viewers is due to most people know who will be in the final and that's what really matters, the highlanders, chiefs and hurricanes don't picture in this but the country has to wait untill the blues and crusaders fight it out. In the meantime League, Cricket and other sports are occupying our interest with 7's getting a mention in there too. It's a pity we can't fast forward to the final so we can all rest easy as the blues close the chapter on a great year for Auckland sport.
Graham Wallace
In my view "super rugby" has been the worst thing to happen to rugby in NZ since its introduction back in ??? It has devalued the NPC competition (and shield rugby)where the allegiances of the true rugby fan lies not with team 1,2,3,4,5 otherwise inanely named the Blues, Chiefs, Hurricanes etc...All that "super" rugby has done is provide a means thru TV rights to remunerate the players as professionals. The provincial unions themselves are a case of the haves and the have nots no doubt influenced by how much weight they carry in their "franchises". No surprise then that "success" has come the way of the Blues and Crusaders and good on them - but has that been for the better for rugby in general in NZ. Maybe the Allblacks will win the now all important world cup this year and everyone will get a dose of the feelgoods for a week/month or so but that i doubt that will help the provinces too much i.e at grass root level and heaven forbid if we dont win!! after the initial hype "Super" rugby is now showing up for what it really is - a contrived 14 team competition tat lacks the real passion of provincial rugby from yesteryear. instead of super rugby The NZRU would have been better to have enlarged the NPC competition some yrs back by inviting 2 or 3 aus sides and 1 or 2 pacific island teams and having a 16 or 18 team competition. Surely that would have generated enough TV income to be viable. It would also have addressed the issue of player overload as would be 1 not 2 competitions.
Johnny Cochrane
Its because the all blacks are a bunch of overpaid, over-hyped posers.
Rosco
It's a mixture of quite a few things for me. Rugby is boring these days, the same old faces, the same old teams, the same refs ruining the game. Its too slow paced. Its overhyped. Its over televised. Its being played during our late summer early autumn when there should be cricket on. I now watch NRL, Its faster, smoother to watch, and quite compelling viewing. I still watch the ABs but the 'feel' isnt the same as a few years ago. I think Rugby passed its saturation point.Its become a sporting economy, instead of a passionate institution. Theres no more room for the flair of the game its all become too clinical.
John
It doesn't seem as if the refs are held accountable. At least in the NRL if the refs have a shocker they get dropped a grade. Also the scrums are killing the game. Bring back rucking and Andre Watson!
WOJ
I live in Brisbane, Australia, and have been for the last 4 years, Ever since Ive been here, Ive followed the Broncos, and my nephew playing league, Rugby on the other hand was my life being bought up in the King Country,But now I get turned off with the game, Its Politics , Its Referees,Tv commentary,and above all ,Its Rules, wear as League is Still exciting non stop action, with big hits and great skills by all players and a great spectacle 4 all 2 see, so when Rugby becomes a game that we can all enjoy and get our moneys worth 2 sit down and watch it or see it live then maybe the ratings will improve, but at the moment the NZRFU have to listen to the Public 4 a change and ask themselves over a gin and tonic , Whats happening Mate???? Whats gone wrong .
Bish
Came back to NZ for 2 weeks break - great, really miss the Friday night Rugby... what no free to air? OK, must have to wait until Saturday for some.... no? .... Sunday... No? Motorsport it is then. If you alienate those (bulk of viewers) from free-to-air access then why are they going to be 'bribed' into paying for Sky? Get real, Rugby is an NZ institution and should be free to watch (delayed is fine) but now you have killed the passion to watch if you dictate we must pay! No wonder audiences are down, was a day when you followed every weekend and then for your local teams match - shot down to the pub or to a neighbours to watch it 'live'. Greed has bought the down turn I fear - and watch out as the new generation of softies now have more ammo to turn their kids to soccer!
Siaosi
Hey since there is too much rugby on your TV's, send some here to the States. It's not fair that NZ gets coverage of the NFL and us here in the USA don't see any rugby. Ummmm maybe that's why people are turned off by rugby, other sports, hint hint!!
RP
Isnt it obvious - over exposure and appalling coverage is the issue. Every night we see the TV channels showing lame reports about players injuries, personal issues, visits to old folks homes - any story they can come up with.The number of games is ridiculous and the length of season just plain dumb. The average person has moved on from rugby, racing & beer - the country has matured and there are plenty of alternatives to watching rubbish.
Peter
There is no passion in rugby these days... its starts in summer and finishes in summer. It is rugby rugby rugby all year round and it gets boring. Even the players are sick of it and the proof lies in the fact that no longer do top players hold playing for the All Blacks as their dream. They give up the All Blacks to go overseas and earn money, even though they could be wearing the black Jersey with the click of a finger,(Carl Hayman for example). Its about money these days, not passion. Administrators, players, media companies, tv rights etc.. its a business now, not a sport, and the passion is dying. And with it the interest of the fans. I'd rather go fishing than watch a crappy super 14 match, dont have to pay sky fees either, can use the money to buy some new rods. The NPC needs to be brought back to life, thats where the passion is at. People playing with pride, putting their bodies on their line for their provinces, not playing for a salary increase. Shelve the super 14, its garbage.
Jacko
Rugby is a stupid game because there is too much emphasis on gaining points by simply kicking the ball between the sticks. In my opinion, this part of the game should either be emancipated from the game or reduced to 1 point (presently it is 3 points).By reducing the amount of points from the penalty kick will create more focus on scoring tries. Thus, dramatically increasing watchers and amusement
Mose
Simple really. Overkill. Super 14, (which is like internationals with the best hemisphere playing week in week out), Sevens world circuit...What happened to the NPC then some overseas tour when we use to play club teams during the week then the tests, Theres overkill at the mo i reckon, and rugby league and soccer, basketball from aus thats competing for viewer time...and not to mention pay tv, ie sky. Gone are the days when all kiwis use to stay up in the early hours of the morning to watch it on national television. It was over when it went professional and the corporates came in to it. All Black rugby has lost its aura cause the rest of us who matter, cant afford pay tv. Simple. Still, we kick arse..even tho we watch it a day later on the sports news on TV1 or TV 3
Jack Cron
Hello, re your question "What's wrong with rugby" We all want to see attractive and attacking rugby. Many of the complaints that most Rugby Coaches and knowable fans have about referees would stop if referees (and importantly), linesmen policed the defending offside line at all times. Unpenalised Defence offsides(and unpenalised professional fouls) are boring us all to death and match officials have a mental block about stopping it/them. Refs seldom use their yellow cards, untill the 2nd half. Anyone who watches English and European Soccer will see that if a player is even slightly offside, up goes the Linesmans flag and the ball is given to the other side. In every rugby game I watch, the match officials consistently ignore defending players offside. Rugby linesmen should be in line with the offside line and flag any offending player/s. Rugby linesmen should police the offside law as do the soccer linesmen. Why do you think a League referee seldom (compared to a rugby referee) stops a game? Watch and you will see, it is because his major focus is on penalising any player who moves offside. The ref is protecting the go forward space of the team with the ball. Change the Linesman's brief, so that his major focus is on flaging offside players and we will have our great game back. (Second offence, yellow card.) In rugby we seem to be looking everywhere else to change our game, when the way to reward attacking teams is to protect their "go forward" space by keeping their opposition onside.
Frank
Wait until NZ win the RWC 2007...that'll bring 'em back ;)
Matt
I'm in the UK at the moment so the following may be slightly off the mark, but wonder if NZ residents have the same feeling. I've been less interested in Super14 rugby this season firstly because the key ABs were out of it for the first half of the tournament. Secondly, I am totally world cup focussed at the moment so I don't care how the S14 clubs do this year. I'm only interested in the tri nations from the point of view of giving the ABs some valuable pre World cup game time and guaging the competition for RWC2007. That's the only reason I managed to stay awake during the RBS 6 Nations over here (utterly dire otherwise and I was at the England v France game - free ticket by the way, as if I'd pay to see that). I'm sure the viewings will be back up next year. Given that we only get a couple of S14/NPC games a week over here, I'd chew my own arm off to watch the rugby channel back in NZ any other year. I agree that other sports should also get a mention in the news and be viewed on tv as well- but I don't think it needs to be in direct competition with rugby - put more sport on and have less Shortland Street and Holmes (if he's even still around). Rugby is pretty much the only thing that puts NZ on the world map as a household name - any country I visit, when they find out I'm from NZ, first thing they mention is the All Blacks. And as for the person who called the ABs of today metrosexual nancy boys, there's no getting away from the fact the players today are bigger faster and stronger than ever before (but hey, if you don't believe me, feel free to pop down to Jerry Collins' local pub and raise it with him - maybe he'll share tips on moisturiser with you)
Pete Wilson
I was raised in Auckland about a mile from Eden Park, grew up on rugby and loved the Ranfurly Shield and All Black games. Sleeping outside for tickets was almost a rite of passage. For the last 20 years however, I have lived in the USA just outside of Philadelphia. With my wife and her family being huge sports fans, I have learned to adapt to American football, baseball, ice hockey and basketball. Their raging passion for their teams stems from the leagues they play having been established generations ago. Hockey and baseball rivalries go back over 100 years. My kids are growing up watching games with their grandfather, who is telling them stories of going to watch the same match ups with his father and grandfather. This breeds a passion for your team, win lose or draw and that's what makes all sports great anywhere. Last time I was in NZ, it seemed that Ranfurly Shield was dead, people still loved the All Blacks, but the interest in all the other leagues was based on a love of rugby rather than a deep rooted fan base. I went to a Blues game at Eden Park and it was a fun night out rather than fans going crazy for their team. People over here ask me who my rugby team is and apart from the All Blacks, I don't have one any more and that is sad. Television coverage of the extended season and multiple leagues have so diluted the interest that fans don't generate the same passion they used to. The solution to rugby's problems is in finding one premier, professional format or league that will endure and that regional fans can grow up rooting for. All the other leagues either go away or become subsidary or developmental leagues. Maybe establish national or international college leagues for developing junior players. These teams would also grow a huge fan base. Penn State (a Pennsylvania College) for example, their home football games are sold out through 2017 and every hotel in the city is booked solid for those weekends. Can we even be sure that Super 14s or whatever will even be here in 10 years? Then establish an annual draft of your premier college, subsidiary league and even high school players. This is a huge event in its own right.Dilution is killing rugby. It's time to unify rugby.
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