He's the bete noire of New Zealanders, the Aussie who lives to rib and tease Kiwis from across the other side of the Tasman. But strip away the smart remarks, ignore the quips from his TV commentaries and listen to what Phil Kearns really thinks of Graham Henry's All Blacks.
Are the All Blacks as good as everyone says?
Kearns doesn't hesitate.
"Yes, they are. Their play at the breakdown is by far the best of any team in the world. Their defence is superb and has taken a step up, too.
"In fact, in all the key positions on the field - hooker, five-eighth, inside centre and fullback - in other words the spine of the team, they are probably the best in the world. In my view, a guy like Leon MacDonald is certainly the best player in the world in his position."
Better than Mils Muliaina?
In Kearns' opinion, yes.
"He is certainly far more a potent counter-attacking weapon than Mils. The latter is a terrific player but Leon gives you that little bit extra going forward."
Kearns had a distinguished playing career - 67 caps for the Wallabies, captain 10 times and part of the World Cup winning squads in 1991 and 1999.
But ask him how he reflects on his playing career, and he says frankly: "I don't. It was part of my life and I loved and cherished every second of it. But it is a part that is over and I prefer to look forward rather than back.
"I'd be the first to say I met some wonderful people and got some great opportunities to move forward in my life through rugby. But I don't look back and think what a great player I was, or anything like that. For me, life is about the future."
And maybe the reason for that is the experience he and his wife Julie endured late last year when Kearns accidentally reversed the family 4WD over their 19-month-old daughter Andie outside their Sydney home.
After three agonising weeks in intensive care, she survived and today is again a healthy youngster. But Kearns and his wife had by then suffered enormous mental trauma. What are his memories of that time?
"Well, the first thing to say is that the support people all over the world gave us was exceptional. The prayers and thoughts of people everywhere we felt very much and it was a most humbling experience.
"My wife used to say that if I was any more laid-back I would be dead but the truth is, since the accident, I have been even more laid-back and philosophical. Nothing now upsets me, nothing at all. The reason is, I was unbelievably close to losing one of the things most dear to me. I have a wife and four children and nothing else compares with their health and well-being.
"The sheer fact of not knowing for several weeks whether she would live or die was terrible.
"I was never a greatly religious guy before that and I still couldn't pretend I am the deepest believer in town. But I'm certainly more of a believer now."
Kearns doesn't deny the fact that a patriotic Aussie beats strongly throughout his soul. And he's pleased to see significant improvements in the Wallabies since last year's disastrous ending that culminated in the sacking of coach Eddie Jones.
"I think we are improving and could yet be a force at the World Cup. The improvement in the forwards has been dramatic, especially in the front row, from that game against England at Twickenham last November.
"Our scrum is still far from dominant but from a situation where we were getting smashed, we're definitely improving.
"The young players who have been brought in will improve and develop. The youth of the props is very encouraging. We have some up and coming players in this area who I think will become quality performers, guys like the hookers [Tai] McIsaac, [Tatafu] Polota-Nau and [Adam] Freier."
On form at the moment, France and New Zealand would be the sides in at the final shake-up at the World Cup, he says.
"It's hard to say about England. They have been terrible and their tour out here earlier in the season was terrible. But most of their top players were at home so it is hard to gauge.
"I think Ireland have improved out of sight, Wales likewise. But the last four would probably be the usual suspects: New Zealand, France, Australia and, I think at the moment, Ireland. Yet Ireland don't have that depth to cover injuries."
But ask Kearns why it is that Australia, with its limited playing numbers, is still the only country to have won the World Cup twice, and a grin spreads across those familiar features.
"I think we have had the ability [and 1995 is the exception] to innovate and out-think competitors through necessity. We have had to, that is the key thing. That has created a ruthless attitude in selection, for example, and I believe we think about the game at that level better than other countries.
"Also, because we don't have the number of players, we have to maximise the skills of those players who are available to us. And we have been able to think of some fairly innovative things over the years.
"In 1995, we were out-thought due to laziness on our part but since then we have been competitive. Look at the 2003 World Cup semifinal against New Zealand in Sydney: we out-thought the All Blacks.
"In 1991, we took preparation of the game to a new level and in 1999 under Rod Macqueen, we changed the way people thought about the game."
* Peter Bills is a rugby writer for Independent News & Media.
Kearns keeps achievements in perspective
AdvertisementAdvertise with NZME.