If you suggest to Robbie Deans that the All Blacks have a natural edge over his Wallabies, that his side battles with the psychology of transtasman stoushes, he hesitates.
There is an uneasy pause as if the phone line has dropped out. You wonder, but then Deans is back after his rare vocal intermission.
"If you suggested over time, then it is probably a fair assessment but certainly we are working hard at ensuring it is not the case now."
Throw Eden Park into the conversation and hint at a blown opportunity against a Daniel Carter-free All Blacks and Deans agrees that 22-16 defeat was frustrating but labels it an improvement.
Ask again whether that underlines how the All Blacks are a mental hurdle for his team and Deans demurs.
"I would like to think not, but those questions will be answered on the day," he said referring to their clash in Sydney next week.
Deans accepts the All Blacks and Wallabies have been playing with less maturity than the Springboks who beat the Lions this season and have beaten both transtasman rivals.
He did not buy into any theory that the All Blacks, on the back of twin defeats, were ripe for the kill in Sydney as they were last season. If anything he felt they would be a more dangerous foe.
Deans has enough problems of his own. There have been increasing murmurs out of Australia that his side lacks the mental edge for the big stage.
"There are no doubt elements to our game that we have been our own worst enemy. We have to remove those because we can't expect a different outcome, if we don't," Deans said.
"We have to take ownership of those situations and we have to control our discipline."
Some areas of the Wallaby game are on the march. Their scrum looked better at Eden Park and then Durban; that is the one area which has troubled the Boks this season.
The Wallabies' defensive screen has tightened and in Matt Giteau and Berrick Barnes they have two competent tactical kickers.
But their lineout was flogged in Durban, they lack power at the breakdown, they have halfback problems and they have been less fluid than they would like.
There have been signs of stress too - a lack of clinical finishing and some anxiety.
They will have powerful loose forward Rocky Elsom back for Sydney but have lost influential skipper Stirling Mortlock to knee cartilage surgery.
"I don't think we are hamstrung," Deans said.
"I think we have available to us what we need. It is evident there is a developing group of players and generation coming on. There are areas of the game we have to master or perhaps cover up. But that goes for every team."
He had a squad in mind to play the All Blacks but might still make an adjustment or two.
"In some part we are restricted by numbers and choices but that is part of the decision-making we have to make as selectors. We have to look at the challenges and look at ways we can get the maximum out of the team," Deans said.
The Sydney test would be a humdinger because it involved two sides desperate for a result. It was a rematch the Wallabies were excited about; there was a growing element of public anticipation because both sides were under the hammer.
Deans did not think rising pressure would inhibit the teams' style or flow of the game.
"We are both now into a programme where we can't be too conservative, we are less likely to go into our shells."
All Blacks: Deans wary of All Blacks' mental edge
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