KEY POINTS:
Jock Hobbs stabs the coffee table with a forefinger. It's fair to say he is... not upset, exactly... but animated. The chairman of the New Zealand Rugby Union is adamant Graham Henry's selection as All Black coach is "not a sham".
Told that many see Henry's appointment as a sop by a NZRU board who gave Henry the World Cup mandate to begin with - and who are thus salving their own responsi-bility - Hobbs bristles and repudiates the claim.
It's a slightly surreal scene, this. Hobbs is not usually a demonstrative man in public, preferring to pick his way through his sentences with lawyerly precision; often pausing to find the right word. We are in the foyer of an Auckland hotel. Behind us, Eric Idle, the comedian and member of Monty Python, is just leaving. Two hours ahead of us is the announcement that one of the brightest hopes in New Zealand coaching, Robbie Deans, is coach of the Wallabies.
It feels vaguely Pythonesque for a moment. Hobbs is going for it, a busy monologue defending the NZRU from much of the criticism swirling around Henry's re-appointment - almost like Idle's famous Python soliloquy as Mr Smoketoomuch in the Travel Agent sketch, a masterful tirade about the ugly Englishman abroad.
Hobbs' frustration with perceptions that the NZRU have performed a transparent political manoeuvre is plain. Brian Lochore walks past, one of rugby's most honest and genuine men. Hobbs is in the same bracket. There is absolutely no doubt about his feeling for rugby and his straight-up, honest character.
Hobbs it was at the helm of the capture of the 2011 Rugby World Cup for New Zealand, his backroom, consensus-style, old-fashioned politicking delicately netting the victory - at a time when critics, including this writer, were berating the NZRU for not waging an 'above-the-line' campaign, bringing to bear big budgets, big ads, big names of the game. Just like Japan. Just like Japan, who came second.
Hobbs' knowledge of rugby's corridors of power and 'below-the-line' rugby politics won the day.
If he chooses his words carefully, you feel it is because he absolutely does not ever want to lie to you while not wanting to give away too much; telling you things he thinks you should not yet know.
But all that is forgotten at the moment. The forefinger is making a dent in the varnish and Hobbs is saying: "It [the All Black coach appointment] was not a sham. I can assure you of that."
He is referring to the feeling of many that Henry's re-appointment was pre-decided by board members who were also feeling the heat of the World Cup loss - and that the re-appointment was the way to sidestep the difficult question of who else was to blame if Henry lost his job.
"That suggestion is insulting, to the board and to the candidates," says Hobbs. "It just wasn't so and it would never be so. Those appointments [coach and CEO] are two of the board's prime decisions. They are taken extremely seriously. We understand how important it is. I take it bloody seriously.
"And I can tell you there was no pre-determination at all. It was a professional, robust, fair and transparent process - all it should have been."
Hobbs says he knows there are strong feelings around Henry's appointment but said the board's charter and values absolutely predicated against such a manoeuvre.
"The values we have as a board don't allow that kind of behaviour," he says. "I wouldn't allow that kind of behaviour."
Hobbs absented himself from the actual appointment interviews as Deans is his brother-in-law but says: "We had board meetings before that appointment and I can categorically assure you we never, ever discussed the candidates and whether one was preferred over the other or any of that sort of thing."
No official discussion, maybe, but general conversation?
"No, it was never discussed. We all know our responsibilities that way. We [the board] are absolutely accountable for the conditioning programme and things like that within the Rugby World Cup campaign. But we'd never try anything like that [a vote for the easy option].
"We don't have to - we could just have said it was a non-contestable election and re-appointed the coach. But we wanted to make sure that we did it carefully, professionally and did it right."
Hobbs'frustration also stems from the fact that apologies have been made - by him and Henry - but that it sometimes seems as if they have not been heard nor understood. He also does not enjoy that the NZRU's 'process' has been misunderstood - a coaching review, performed annually but with a sharper edge because of the RWC; the appointment of the coach; and thirdly a wide-ranging review of all things New Zealand rugby and World Cup, including the dreaded reconditioning and rotation.
Hobbs hasn't enjoyed it that many have not understood the order of the three 'legs' of the NZRU's response after the World Cup and that many - including this writer - accused them of putting cart before horse by appointing the coach before doing the World Cup review.
"It was never about blame; pointing the finger," he says of the third leg, the review due in April.
"It was always going to be about wider issues like whether we do indeed put too much emphasis on the World Cup and associated issues. It was never a witch hunt.
"I disagree that it is a waste of time. It is never a waste of time asking difficult questions, taking a wider review of things that I hope will throw up some lessons for the future; what we can do better."
He gets especially upset when talking about rotation, although he hates the term - preferring 'selection.'
"I don't know who dubbed it 'rotation' but I reject the notion that it has devalued the All Black jersey. It really upsets me to hear that.
"Because what devalues the All Black jersey is if the All Blacks don't win. It's all about making and maintaining a winning record. What has been happening in terms of selection [not rotation] is that they have been picking players week in, week out to win the next test match.
"And they haven't done a bad job of it. They have maintained the value and the mana of that jersey. They won 42 of 48 tests. That is comparable with any country. That doesn't devalue the jersey - of course it doesn't.
"It's a question of mana and respect and maintaining that winning record which is now second only to that of Fred Allen. It's also a question of not playing a player in the next test if he is not ready for it. I would have thought fans and supporters would want to come along to test matches and see attractive rugby; winning rugby. Have a look over the last four years - there's been plenty of winning and attractive rugby".
Hobbs' fire is dimming now. He acknowledges the NZRU has a lot of work to do - "it's been a tough year" - and he says he knows there is an essential disconnect between the NZRU and fans and some stakeholders.
"I know we have a lot of work to do and we will."
It's already started - the NZRU will meet provincial unions in a summit meeting early next year to discuss the issues facing the national game.
Hobbs says that meeting will consider six major issues - the long-term vision for the game for the next 5-15 years; financial sustainability; competitions, including the Air NZ Cup; leadership and structure of the game - including union boundaries; allocation of resources between the professional and amateur game; and the image of the game.
Hobbs is also considering his own future. He may yet decide to stand down as chairman and nods ruefully as he agrees he has another tough road if he continues.
He'll make the decision after Christmas after sitting in a deck chair and having a beer and otherwise contemplating life. He is typically genuine, typically Hobbs, when he says that rugby in New Zealand now needs unity; that people need to put their opinions on things like the All Black coach appointment to one side and join together for the greater good.
He still seems the right bloke to achieve that.
