Head Coach Michael Maguire speaks to the media following the New Zealand Kiwis training session at Nga Puna Wai on November 05, 2019. Photo / Getty Images.
Kiwis coach Michael Maguire talks to Chris Rattue about the lessons he learned from Sir Alex Ferguson, the injury that ended his career at 23 and why he dropped Benji Marshall.
By day, he's the Wests Tigers NRL coach. By those and other days, he is also the Kiwis coach.
Australian Michael Maguire is a man known for setting tough standards and he learned from the best, including one of the most famous characters in world football.
The 46-year-old Maguire has guided Wigan and South Sydney to titles. This includes breaking a 43-year drought for the famous Rabbitohs when they triumphed in 2014.
He has already got the Kiwis perched in the number one ranking since taking over two years ago, but his plans for New Zealand's league side go way beyond that.
The former Canberra Raider chats to the Herald from Sydney about that famous football character who influenced him so much, the day his playing career ended at Mt Smart Stadium, on why he dropped Benji Marshall, rule changes, and drops a few Kiwi selection hints.
How hard is it, preparing for tests which may not happen because of Covid-19?
I always anticipate we'll have a test match. I'm in the background working extremely hard, keeping in contact with powers that be. It's very important not only for the Kiwis, but Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and all the teams out there. It gives the Kiwi players something to keep aspiring to. It is well and truly talked about within the game that we'll play Tonga at the end of the year.
So is it business as usual?
I watch all the Kiwi players every week in the NRL. I talk to them when I can. The connections we've been building and the culture in the team is something very special. I watch a lot of the (European) Super League games as well. All those players will be considered. The major focus for everyone in the Kiwi organisation is the World Cup at the end of next year. We want the trophy.
Emerging players like Brandon Smith at Melbourne and James Fisher-Harris at Penrith are really starting to deliver in the NRL…
And others like Dylan Brown at Parramatta…
How have things changed since you took charge of the Kiwis?
The expectation that the jersey is a winning jersey. The expectations are built through senior players and continually spoken about among the young players coming through.
So many people have worn that jersey with so much pride. Every player who comes in represents a massive family. That family is the players who have come before them. The pinnacle for a Kiwi player is to play for the Kiwi team. That is the biggest piece we are developing at this moment in time.
How do you encourage that?
I have people like Stacey Jones, Nathan Cayless, Stephen Kearney, Ruben Wiki, Johnny Lomax….all the greats…they are always welcome around the team. It is an incredible honour to coach at that level because you are representing a country.
What sort of rebuilding was needed after players led by Jason Taumalolo quit the Kiwis in 2017?
When you go through adversity you need to look at everything…how things were run, how things were perceived. I took it upon myself with Greg Peters (NZRL chief executive) to see how we can improve every facet of the organisation and have a stable environment for the players to produce their best.
I don't know what happened in the past, but the senior players want to make sure the jersey is in the right place. That involves winning World Cups, winning test match after test match, to be that playing group people get to talk about.
Who are your senior guys?
People like Jared Waerea-Hargreaves, Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, the Bromwich boys [Jesse and Kenny], Dallin Watene-Zelezniak, Shaun Johnson, I've had Benji Marshall coming through. But anybody who puts on that jersey has to have leadership.
You've dropped Benji Marshall from your Tigers team in recent weeks…was that tricky?
There are also examples of that in the Kiwi camp – Shaun Johnson sat out a game, Brandon Smith sat out a game. There are the values of the jersey that we live by, which is no different to what I do at the Tigers. The team sets them.
Every player at some stage is going to go through a bit of adversity. That's what a career is. It can be a roller coaster ride as a player. Sometimes your body is sore, sometimes you are emotionally drained because of the external world expectations.
Where did you want Marshall to improve?
There were areas in both attack and defence, but it was how he was training. That is a specific thing I spoke to him about. Training replicates the game. Benji has trained the house down in the last month and now the first-grade opportunity has been given to him again.
Do you like the 'six again' rule which was introduced to the NRL after lockdown?
I do actually. I was a bit sceptical at first because I wasn't quite sure how it would make the game look. But it has revitalised momentum and you see really good attacking raids on the back of fatigue.
Our game is all about fatigue. If you don't have it, you can't exploit individuals. How mentally strong is that defensive team when you get six again after four tackles? You get to watch and see whether the resilience in certain organisations is strong or do they fold in those moments?
Could the new rule alter your Kiwi selections?
Yes. It's definitely opened up some opportunities for smaller men, the speed you need in the halves. There is also the importance of a fullback playing through the middle with your halves to exploit fatigue. That will influence selection.
Will it have other effects?
You've got to look at the body types coming through – big athletic, strong, powerful, fit guys. Those are the attributes needed in the middle now. Over 50 per cent of the NRL is Polynesian players. That presents great things for New Zealand.
We need to spend more time and effort via the NRL and the international game to develop these young kids throughout New Zealand.
Does the new rule need any adjustment?
I think they will have a look at two referees again. For now, one ref and the new rule have complemented each other. But certain teams will be able to slow down the ruck better than others…we all look for certain advantages and the new rule will get exploited down the track.
You have a reputation as a 'tough' and 'intense' coach…how do you view that?
That comment has been thrown at me. I think it reflects my passion as well, of wanting to see young players reach the pinnacle. It takes a lot of hard work to reach those marks. My work ethic can be spoken about in that light.
Have you changed as a coach?
I would like to think I'm always improving. There are values and expectations I have but everyone is different. I spend far more time developing the individual.
What are some of the major influences on you?
I've seen and been part of organisations at the top. I spent five years at the Storm when they went to four grand finals. That was great learning.
I was able to spend a lot of time at all the AFL (Aussie Rules) clubs. They wanted me to teach them how to tackle. Little did they know I was looking at all the cultures and ways they deal with players – I visited pretty much all of them, from the most financial to those with not a lot of money just to see how they did things.
At Wigan, I was able to get into Manchester City and Manchester United football clubs. I got to sit down with (former United manager) Sir Alex Ferguson on many occasions. He was incredible. He shared some great learnings around coaching. The main thing I got from him was the importance of identifying players who were extremely hungry to win.
He talked about his most successful teams to teams where he had to make change, moving players like David Beckham on. They were incredible stories.
Do you sleep easier as a premiership winning coach?
No. I'm after another one. You get the taste of it – I'm extremely hungry to do it again and again and again.
Your last game as a first grade player was against the Warriors at Mt Smart Stadium in 1998…
It was, unfortunately. (Warriors wing) Sean Hoppe, a good old teammate at Canberra, popped over the top and I felt something in my neck go and that was the end of my career.
He (Hoppe) barrelled me back over. It was just an unfortunate thing – at the age of 23 I had the realisation my playing career was over. But if that didn't happen I probably wouldn't have got on my coaching journey. Things happen for a reason.
Your playing career was with a very famous Canberra side…
I was very fortunate. I came into a team of Mal Meninga, Ricky Stuart, Laurie Daley, Bradley Clyde, Quentin Pongia, Johnny Lomax, Gary Belcher – I could keep going on with names. [Coach] Tim Sheens was so important as well. It was about the whole organisation.
As an 18-year-old I was partnered in the gym with Mal Meninga, the world's biggest man and I was just this lightweight.
We literally had the Australian and New Zealand test teams. Unbeknown to me at the time it was probably the biggest influence on my coaching career, because I got to see what success looked like.
Craig Bellamy came through that Canberra era as well – he was captain/coach of reserve grade. We probably had eight coaches come out of that team…names like Neil Henry, Dave Furner, Laurie Daley, Ricky Stuart…
Did any particular playing opponent stand out?
My career was riddled with injuries – I didn't play a whole heap. (Cronulla's) Andrew Ettingshausen…I really remember playing against him. He was tough, a competitor. That's one game I remember vividly.
How do you see your future with the Kiwis?
We need to push hard with the development of New Zealand league. It's about longevity for me - touch wood I keep going. New Zealand has only won one World Cup. How does that work with the amount of players New Zealand has coming through? It's crazy.
How do I put something in place so in 20 years' time I can go 'there's the difference to what happened in three or four World Cups.'
On the surface, the Warriors draw for the 2025 season is quite kind