In another year Fien would have served his time and would be eligible through his mandatory stand-down period.
As for Sel Bennett, what more can be said? Not only is he barking mad, arguing that great-grandparents and grandparents are the same, but to not have checked the birth certificate is plain stupid! How many top companies would employ someone without checking references or qualifications? He must be held accountable regardless of whether the Kiwis lose points or not. This is not how we want our professional teams to be run.....
- LJ Clark
I do believe Fien will escape any serious repercussions from these proceedings. There have been precedents for other ship-jumpers previously which have gone before this controversey, eg Toni Carroll (played for NZ in World Cup after previously representing Australia and Queensland), Willie Mason (played for Tonga in the World Cup now playing for Australia and he was born in NZ) Brent Kite (same deal as Willie but not born in NZ).
Australians have a very short memory and NZers are far too fast to crucify people for their errors. Fien has decided to rekindle his interest in his Kiwi heritage, great for him.
I do believe he would not intentionally try to mislead anybody, however the powers that be should have been more thorough with their scrutiny rather than relying on the "Yeah my Nan's Kiwi" line, and checked his crudentials more thoroughly.
In financial terms it would be bad to dock points as many Kiwi spectators would not go to any more of the games and then we'd have the Aussies bagging us as sore losers for a no show.
Fien and NZRL will get off with a slap on the wrists with potential financial penalties imposed.
- O for Awesome
This whole issue is becoming farcical. New Zealand league should pick kiwis for the Kiwi league team - it's that simple. Nathan Fien is not a kiwi - it's that simple and everyone knows that, including the NZRL. The situation echoes the eligibity fiasco of the 80s & 90s with the Ireland national soccer team. Back then, it appeared that all you had to do to be eligible was to own an Irish Setter dog! Let's not go there, League.
- S King
Grandparent versus Great-grandparent - simple maths really. Grandparent means you could possibly play for 4 different countries and Great grandparent means you could possibly play for 8 countries on that basis. Not counting parent's birth nation and or the players birth nation and residency which could add 4 other possible countries. Seems far too many choices.It should be restricted to parents birth nation, players birth nation, and residency. What next? Wife's birth nation? Surely we don't want to watch the National uniform of any country or code warn by mercenaries attracted by lifestyle and money or selection ease, but rather see each nation's efforts at talent development come to fruition. Perhaps we are just cheering for Uniforms like Jerry Seinfield said.
- Shuan Toomey
Well once again I feel totally embarresed by the arrogance of the NZRL. Bluey embarrassed all of NZ when he took it to the Aussies before the Anzac test and look what happened - we got thumped. We dont have the right to be arrogant like this in rugby league. The Aussies have been the best in the business for the last 30 odd years.
When we have won 20 games in a row we get that right - not after winning a few games and winning the tri nations.
Sel, pull your head in and admit you have made a mistake. I am finding it harder to support the boys and its time that Mr Sel Bennet fell on his sword. Plus, we have a hooker who is kiwi through and through and he can't even get a game.
- Mark Gregory
To Brad: You've got it wrong, mate. It's not that Nathan Fien didn't want to represent Australia - it's just that he's not good enough to get picked. Sure, he's played State of Origin for Queensland, but that was only because it was a weak year and the Maroons had some pretty horrendous injury problems.
The unfortunate thing with this whole situation is that Fien didn't have too wait too long before qualifying to play for New Zealand on residency. Now, when he is fully qualified to play for the Kiwis, he's going to have to live with the stigma that comes with cheating to get himself an international cap. The Kiwis won't get their points taken off them ... but they should.
And on the Kiwi players in the Australian team? Remember that Brad Thorn played for Australia in rugby league before he played for the All Blacks; and that while Hunt, Carroll and Mason might not have been born in Australia, they have qualified through residency - something that Fien hasn't done.
- Dan Sankey
Lets find out if any Aussies are playing illegally...And didnt Australia accept Fein's Birth Certificate before we played Australia?
- Chris Sinclair
The International Rugby League Federation needs to take a stand on the issue of elligibility.
None of this "oh but I was born in xx country, but I now live in yy country, and I feel like a yy national". People are either a member of one country, or they are not.
People shouldn't have a chance to choose their allegiance. Their allegiance should be clearly defined in the regulations of the game. They should be restricted to their country of birth, of the country of birth of their parents, or parents parents (so their is no arguement over what defines "grandparents").
I think the rules regarding residence are a complete farce, and should be dropped.
- Ard Righ
Sel Bennett, pack your bags. In a job such as yours where you are ultimately responsible, you could have cost us the Tri Nations, heads need to role.
If you stick your head up and say something,back it up Kiwi style, not retract it and blame it on the heat of the moment ... be a kiwi and "man up".
The most dissappointing thing about this is the manner in which he went about it. Instead of checking as all professional administrators do, I heard on Radio that he took his (Nathan Fien) for it.That is rather sloppy anf frankly reflects the way the NZRL handled this.
Long story short - Clean out administrator and Sel, lose point...( sorry fellas) and watch the Kiwis reply in true kiwi fashion - with their hearts on their sleeves...go Kiwis!!!
- alamas
When you look at the international constitution it is very unclear about player eligibility and we believe the whole thing needs cleaning up. But we never set out to deceive anyone, it's just an innocent mistake Come on Sel, an innocent mistake? More like a disastrous school-boy error in the professional world of International Sport. Why am I so disappointed & frustrated: Because not only will New Zealand Rugby League and its set-up be penalised, but the fans of this game, you and I and the International Rugby League community because the Tri-Nations will turn out to be a sham, due to the Kiwis docked points (that MUST happen). As Graeme Lowe says, the problem is the ongoing hunt for Australian talent to take New Zealand positions, rather than having faith in selecting Bartercard players. The Kiwis must be docked points for playing Fien, theyve broken the rules! The NZRL administration that was in charge of Fiens eligibility have robbed the Tri-Nations the allure & prestige it deserves. Funnily enough if Great Britain loses all its games, and we beat GB once more, we may still play the final with Australia, however as I mentioned above, this whole competition will be a laughing stock & non-event when NZ are docked points for Fiens Granny-Gate Affair
- Sam Walsh
Cooooommmon, pulling the grandparent card is a stretch. Where you were born or currently residing (3years) should be the only qualification. How far do you go back?.....England, France, Ireland etc would have a huge player pool. Maybe even a cousin of Dereks twice removed from Trevor would qualify! You made a mistake NZRL and you need to own up to it and move on. Putting on a test Jersey in any sport is a huge honour and should only be reserved for the individual who deserves it.
- Marty in San Diego.
Sel Bennett has made a fool of New Zealand rugby league. No-one in their right mind would try and convince others that a grand parent is the same as a great grand parent, it is just ridiculous. The penalty for New Zealand should be directed at the NZ administration, not the Team. Sel Bennett should resign immediately, for the sake of the credibility of the NZ kiwi league team and New Zealanders in general. I do not know of 1 Kiwi who would agree with Bennetts interpretation of the rules.
- Ian Kamo
What a joke - how can Sel Bennett keep a straight face and say thay grandparents and great-grandparents are the same thing! Using his logic a large number of NZ'ers would be eligible to play for GB as many NZ households have ancestory from Britain, as far back as 150 yrs ago. And what about the Aussies, some of them could play for GB. Britain used to send their convicts to Australia! They NZRL have been caught cheating, just fess up and take the punishment. They should have checked first if they thought it was dubious. Rugby League for too long in this country has been run by well meaning passionate fans rather than hard-nosed business men
- Jonesy
Unlike many other readers, I have absolutely no problem at all with players from other countries choosing to represent NZ who originate from other countries - provided they have not already represented another country already (ie. Tonie Carroll), and satisfy REALISTIC lineage or residency requirements. Legally, NZRL is right in their interpretation of the constitution - it is ambiguous and leaves such a definition of 'grandparents' within the scope of the law. However, a legal perspective is often different to a common sense one, and the NZRL have clearly erred on this front. No reasonable person would agree with such a definition, even if legally viable. They should simply have waited for Fien to fulfil the residency requirement fully, rather than push the envelope and risk success in the competition. Given legally the NZRL's actions were OK, I think the appropriate action would simply be remove Fien from the remainder of the Tri-Nations, and see that he complete the full residency requirement before he can be selected again. No fine, no points docked - there is no legal basis to do so.
- Brad Richards
I am sick of all this League bashing coming from amateur sports critics to renowned sports broadcasters. I will totally agree that the NZRL has made a big blunder (if found guilty) and accountability of the mistake is in order but I do not see a reason for the International Rugby League to be lambasted by hypocrite rugby supports.
Case and point, and their are a few, Shane Howarth playing for Wales with a dodgy grandparent link, Brendon Laney and John Leslie playing for Scotland and numerous other examples in the All Blacks especially Saimone Taumoepeau the Samoan prop.
The point is that all codes have used such rules to strengthen their sides and this is what Sel Bennett has exactly done.
If the NZRL wins the case it will actually be a very shrewd decision as it may wrestle some power away from the clubs. It seems extremely evident that rugby supports are becoming increasingly concerned but mostly jealous at the strides International Rugby League is making, it is simply a very good product with superior athletes on show than the Union Tri Nations.
- Zane, rugby and league supporter
This is turning into a joke, Australians once again chomping at the bit to continue their domination of the code. We are forgetting one key fundamental about it all and that is, it is a"game". Aussie has a huge abundance of players who all want to represent their country with so many more to contest positions which are key to their success.
If they can't represent Aussie why not be allowed to track back ancestory to your great grand parents or great great grand parents for that light. I welcome Fien to our country and the game cause that as i say is what it is after all.
- T Williams
Sel Bennett created a public farce with the full status test against Great Britain last time round, and now he's embarassed the game again. Do we really have to wait for a third strike before he's OUT!
- M Enright
Sure it all gets the blood boiling, but if we get rid of our "aussie" players Brent, Nathan and apparently the Cayless brothers, then so should Australia - Hunt Mason, Tony Carrol. What double standards do the Aussies want next?
I live in Oz and they just dribble nonsense in the local paper. Brad Thorn played for the All Blacks and now plays State Of Origin for Queensland?
Whats the problem, grow up international league - your future depends on it!!!!
- M Kerr
NZRL have a valid case. The term grandparent needs to be clearly out-lined in the rule book otherwise it leaves room for mis-interpretation. And some comments that have been published in the paper are bollocks. Stating that kiwis should have to carry NZ passports? Half our team who reside in Aussie playing in the NRL will be on Aussie passports .....
- Joshua Thompson
The dictionary describes a grandparent as "A parent of one's mother or father." It looks like Sel has got it wrong again. As far as other comments go, Fien does have a New Zealand link by lineage and therefore is eligible to play for the Kiwis.
A player having a distant relation, such as a great-grandparent, who was born in New Zealand does not make you automatically entitled to represent that country. If it were, then most of the Kiwis, Australians, British etc could represent Italy or Germany or the Vikings as we can all trace our roots back to then. Ireland and Italy could claim a lot of the Americans (if they wanted to!)
Fien talks like an Ozzie, was born and raised there and hasn't spent any time in NZ therefore he's an Ozzie. Perhaps.
- David Harlock
The NZRL cheated. End of story. And if we get stripped of the points from the GB match then thats unfortunate and we deserved it. I do feel sorry for the other players in the team, but I feel no remorse for Fien or the people in the NZRL who must have known they were trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. International league didn't need this but I don't think the game is going to die because of it.
- Carl Andersson
To be prefectly honest Fien isn't that great at all, and if he doesnt want to play for Aussie fair enough, if the Australian public had any dignity they would accept the fact that Fien dosnt want to represent Australia. I feel that its the egos of Australian league that is hurting because Fien would rather represent a foreign country then his own so called nation.
You need to take into consideration such players like, Willie Mason, Karmichael Hunt, Tonnie Carroll, Antonio Kaufusi, Reni Matua and Brad Thorn who have all had questions of their origins, But still have represented Australia.
The Kiwi team is not fill strength as it is. Imagine if they had such players like Sonny Bill Williams, Benji Marshall, Louie/Vinnie Anderson, David Solomono, Lesley Vinakolo.
- Brad
Sel Bennett has made a fool out of himself and the NZRL and needs to pull his head in and admit he made a mistake. Heads must roll and the first one on the chopping block is his. He has made himself and the NZRL look like fools and clearly illustrated their total incompetance at administration level. The 2pts should be deducted even though I am a huge Kiwi league fan but rules are rules and thats what they are there for. A clean out at the NZRL is in order so that simple administrative errors dont happen again. As the saying goes, To 'assume' is to make an Ass out of You and me!
- Claude Iusitini
At the end of the day Nathan is not a kiwi & nor is Brent Webb they shouldnt be playing for NZ but, I don't think the team deserves to be docked their points, it is an admin error NOT the players...You should represent the country you were born in, & then we wouldnt be having these problems. And why isn't Lance Hohaia there?
- Murray Pebbles
Come on Kiwis. It's time to own up and admit it's a fair cop. Bennett's comments about Great-grandmother and grandmother being the same are ridiculous. Would Great-great-grandmother be the same? Sport is fundamentally pointless if there's no honour. The honourable thing for the Kiwis would be to offer to give up their two points. Only then might you get to keep them.
- Paul, Manchester, UK
The argument over Nathan Fien's eligibility is nothing new, and it is the fault of whoever decided on eligibility requirements. While I dont think New Zealand should lose points, I do believe that after this series is over, they need to re-write the rules.
Australia has used players not born in their country (Karmichael Hunt, Willie Mason) and has used players in past teams that have played for other countries (Hazem el-Masri, Adrian Lam). Fien has New Zealand relatives, a New Zealand wife and children, & lives here, so whats the problem? The silly thing is, the player who seemed to start this debate, Willie Mason, was born in Auckland.
- Matthew Hatton
What an absolute joke New Zealeand sport has become.
The NZRL have deliberatly cheated and we have been caught. Instead of owning up to it like men they are cowering and hiding like children.
Whats worse is all the people who go on about Karmicheal Hunt and Willy Mason. Newsflash they are legally eligable to play for Australia they have both lived their for many years the eligibility for International League is 3 years.
Nathan Fien has only lived in NZ for 2 years.
We have plenty of good young league players in this country - give them the opportunity to represent NZ not some traitor Australian.
- Lars
With all due respect to Nathan Fien, he is not Stacey Jones or Wally Lewis in their prime that could be said to be the difference between winning or losing for the Kiwis.
I mean to say, If the under arm bowlers, the voters that sided with Japan for the world Rugby Cup, the claimers of Phah Lap, the kind of people that water their race tracks to suit their own horses, really want to lay claim to Nathan Fien, then do so, but don't insult our intelle-genius by infering we would cheat and risk everything for a fill-in player who is a nice guy but certainly no Little General.
- B Moriarty
The Chairman of New Zealand Rugby league should resign his position immediately and Nathan Fien needs to be sent packing from the team and replaced if need be. It is a farce and has made NZ League look bad. Surely there is a New Zealander eligible to play.
- Neil Warner
There's no way this is just a storm in a teacup. Nathan Fien was not eligible, and he was selected. That's the issue - not whether Fien was eligible in the first place, but the frightening fact that the NZRL selectors and management failed by A) selecting a player who is not eligible according to international rules, and B) failing to verify Fien's eligibility claim in the first place.
- David Taylor
It is a simple rule, despite Sel Bennett's stubborn insistence that there is some kind of ambiguity.
I know who my grandparents are, and they are entirely different to who my great-grandparents are. How hard is that? They either got it badly wrong, or deliberately broke the rules. Either way somebody should be accountable and that begins at the top.NZRL have dealt with this in the same way they deal with every mistake they make (and there's plenty!) - "We're right and we don't care what anyone else thinks".
This is not an isolated incident it is typical of how NZRL administer the game throughout the country. The only difference is that the media are covering this one. NZRL can not hide from it. Let's hope publicity translates to accountability.It is a monumental blunder and absolutely sickening to supporters and participants of the game.
I feel for the team and support crew who have been embarassed by the administration.
Somebody got it badly wrong and that someone should be gone.
- Don James
I can't stop laughing at this story. When the NZRL boss demands this or that then threatens this and that then retracts it all - well what more can one say. International Rugby League deserves this story - it has very little credibility left and this simply show that each year there should be a test series with Australia Vs whoever they want because no boday gives a hoot.
There are only 3 teams in the world that play International rugby league seriosuly. And thanks to this story there is very little seriousness left. Boys take your boots off and go home for a rest - nobody really cares.
- Andrew Robertson
A person with a great grandparent of a certain nationality is a clear desendant of that nationality. This is a far stronger link to a country of origin than is a person who resides in an adopted country for 2 years then is granted eligibility to play for that country.
If Nathan Fien did not have any link to New Zealand at all then yes he should be ineligible and the points for the game reversed. In this case he does have a New Zealand link by lineage and therefore is eligible to play for the Kiwis.
A player should have citisenship for the country that they are playing for before they are eligible to represent that country.
- Wayne Dell
I think it's an embarrassment. Fien is Australian. End of story. Full stop. No way should he be representing NZ - and the worst thing is that he isn't even that good. Motu Tony is far better and looked much more dangerous in the test against GB.
NZ should look carefully at all their international saides and start picking NZ'ers, not people who want to play for the team because it's better than the country that they are from - like Irene Van Dyk, Davu, the other South African in the netball team, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Greg Rawlinson....the list goes on and on.
- Robert Huggins
What a joke! Sel Bennett has been blustering all over the media talking rubbish, making empty threats and then backing out, and refusing to admit he's wrong. When you get it wrong, put your hand up, admit it, and wear the consequences - maybe then people will respect you rather than laugh at you. NZRL have managed to turn the game into a laughing stock around the country and around the world. Sel swears he's right, everybody else knows he's wrong, and when the International Board determine officially that he's wrong - he must resign. How else can there be any credibility salvaged from this?!
- J Williams
CHEATS NEVER PROSPER
- JR Warren
It's dissapointing the NZRL have to go to such desparate measures to put together a 'quality' Kiwi's team.
While they beleive in the validity of Fien's eligibility to play for the Kiwi's I feel their argument is very weak and your 'average' persons interpretation of the word 'Grandparents' doesn't extend to 'Great Grandparents'.
At best the NZRL should have had his eligibility confirmed by the other League Unions prior to Fien playing and subsequently avoiding the possibility of points penalties. I am disappointed in the NZRL and this whole situation leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
- Mike Lockyer
If the Aussies can have Karmichael Hunt and Willie Mason, who were both born in New Zealand, playing for them, then they should be the last ones to get upset about Brent Webb & Nathan Fein playing for NZ. Build a bridge and get over it!
- kiwi
