Tommy Hazlett tried to give up the secrets of trainer Mark Oulaghan at Riccarton on Saturday.
Except he didn't really come close.
The injured jumps jockey, doubling as a television comments person, marvelled like the rest of us at Oulaghan producing the Counter Punch-Yourtheman quinella in the $30,000 Koral Steeplechase.
Hazlett didn't let it show that he might have been shattered by the fact he could have ridden either horse had he been fit.
However, the closeness between himself and Oulaghan shone through when he interviewed the Manawatu trainer after the race.
He proved their relationship was probably racing's closest when he started to break down before rallying to complete the interview.
Four races later, Oulaghan was at it again, winning the $100,000 Aussie Browne's Pharmacy Winter Cup with Propel.
It prompted Hazlett on air to say: "I once asked Mark his secret and he said, 'feed them well and keep them fit'."
Yeah right, like it's that easy.
In fact it is, but it sounds more simplistic than the actuality.
Oulaghan expanded significantly when we asked him the same question yesterday.
Like how do you get Counter Punch ready to win a tough, grinding 4150m Koral Steeplechase with only three flat races since he won the same race a year ago?
That takes a lot of hard work in training, something many trainers can't manage without flattening a horse.
"I possibly work them harder than some trainers, but, essentially, I work them in relation to how they're eating.
"If they eat a lot you can work them a lot. I like to concentrate hard on that correlation.
"The key is getting them to eat [more]."
There is nothing new or mysterious about that, but getting it exactly right is a massive talent.
The late Te Awamutu trainer Bill Sanders proved he could do it and Mark Oulaghan certainly can.
Oulaghan's ability to get seemingly out-of-form horses to win big races on the right day is stunning.
The fact he is rarely acclaimed for it probably has as much to do with his laidback personality than anything else.
Oulaghan has now won three Grand National Hurdles, two Grand National Steeplechases and four Winter Cups.
The way Counter Punch and Yourtheman performed on Saturday, that is likely to be three Grand National Steeplechases this weekend.
Propel got up in the last bound to win the Winter Cup.
Inside the final 75m, James McDonald thought he had the race won on last year's victor Taking The Mickey and you can't blame him.
Oulaghan paid tribute to winning rider Lisa Allpress.
"Full credit to her. The plan was to ride him back, but the pattern on the day didn't suit back runners.
"I left it up to Lisa - she rode him back and still got him up."
Propel had to make up at least 10 lengths on the leaders from the 350m.
Allpress said later she thought she'd made her run too soon.
If she'd left it half a breath later she wouldn't have got there.
Even after 4150m, the Koral Steeplechase was decided by the last fence.
On the home bend Counter Punch looked the winner, but he landed awkwardly over the second-last jump and was headed by stablemate Yourtheman.
Isaac Lupton immediately knew his only chance to win was to catch the last fence in the right part of Counter Punch's stride and to ask the horse for a big jump. You could see Lupton setting himself for that split second and he got it exactly right.
It helped that Yourtheman caught the last jump in the wrong part of his stride.
So if a split second separated the pair on Saturday, what will separate them in Saturday's Grand National?
You're wasting your time asking Mark Oulaghan and he's not just being his usual canny self.
"I never like to split these two horses. There's little between them."
It goes without saying they're big eaters.
BACK THESE
Au Natural: Flattened early by eventual winner Shah, but still made impressive ground late to finish second. Has had only two starts and won't be long in maidens.
Justanexcuse: That won't be his last win now he's back to sprints.
Atom Cat: Lost significant ground in changing direction in the home straight, but still picked up the leaders easily. Has real ability in the mud.
John Gray: Probably won't have to contend with Atom Cat next time. Loves it loose and wet.
Saint Peter: Appeared to slip near the 600m. Looked lost when left in front in the straight, but fought hard for second when challenged.
Conchord: Got back and didn't appear to have much room along the inside to improve into up the home straight. Getting a lot fitter.
SACK THESE
Albaladejo: Dropping to R70 and a 3kg claim couldn't turn his form around. Can win soon, but he'll do it without us.
The Jungle Boy: Didn't appear to be trying too hard during the middle stages before finishing fourth.
LOOKING FORWARD TO
The end of knee-deep racing. This week's Foxbridge Plate is always the sign spring racing and good horses are only a couple of deep breaths away.
Racing: Double propels trainer on to centre stage
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