Carlos Spencer is stepping back into the ring for this week's Fight for Life. Photosport
At the age of 46, Carlos Spencer is a boxer undaunted.
The ex-Blues and All Blacks star will step into the ring again on Thursday, eight years after a tough loss against the noted pugilistic skills of former Kiwi Monty Betham.
Spencer – a playmaker who took the rugby arts to a glorious new level – will face up to 40-year-old old former Kiwi league player Paul Whatuira in the latest Fight For Life promotion at North Harbour's Eventfinda Stadium.
Spencer and his wife Jo have settled in Tamahere, near Cambridge, choosing the Waikato for the educational opportunities it offered their two children.
On the eve of his latest bout, Spencer chats about his boxing history, the current All Black woes, gives his verdict on the Richie Mo'unga-Beauden Barrett debate, reveals his favourite old teammates and more.
Your last fight was against Monty Betham… Are you crazy? He's a real boxer. Did you worry about getting hurt?
I probably was a little bit mad but I have that competitiveness in me. I knew it would be tough given his experience and background but that's what excited me. I got dominated to be honest – disappointing. I didn't really challenge him. I didn't fire a shot. But it was rewarding, challenging myself.
You can't afford to worry about getting hurt. It's not worth jumping in the ring if you are. That's the last thing you want in the back of your mind.
How did your other fights go?
Gee, my first one was way back against Awen Guttenbeil. It was a good little battle which ended in a draw. I managed to get a couple of overhand rights in and dropped him towards the end of the third round, which was quite pleasing.
Being my first fight, I ignored the messages from my coaches about staying relaxed. I blew my gasket in the first round and a half, and had to get through on adrenaline. I learnt from that.
My next one … Jarrod McCracken. That was more of a brawl than a boxing match. There were a couple of cheap shots from him to the back of my head but that was all good … I won that one.
I did a couple in South Africa and one in Dubai but never thought that eight years later I'd be jumping back in the ring.
How is the training going?
I've only been back in New Zealand for four weeks. It's about learning to box again rather than conditioning. I've got an awesome trainer and had some really good sparring partners.
I've put on weight – I'm normally around 84kg but I've put on six kilos in three weeks, to get a bit more power behind my punches.
You've just finished a stint as assistant coach with New Orleans… What is the American major rugby setup like?
It's the same as everywhere else - the big companies can afford to pay for big players, so the same three or four teams compete for the title every year.
We had our own ground – some teams have to lease their training facilities – and there was an old school gym, although unfortunately we didn't have our own strength and conditioning coach. The boys were given their own programmes and you had to trust that they did them. It was called professional but it's definitely still very amateurish.
They rely a lot on foreigners. The American converts aren't too bad – they generally pick up the game when they are about 15 or 16. They get the basics but their skills are way behind where they need to be.
I got to experience Mardi Gras which was awesome and there is always something happening in New Orleans. It was a cool experience.
You also coached in South Africa including as head coach for Eastern Province in the Currie Cup…
I was last there five years ago, and it was very political, around colour, so it was always difficult in terms of selections. We were told at the start of the year what the selection policy was - you had to have five or six players of colour.
As coaches you are always trying to challenge it, because you want to put the best team out. But at the same time, we had to stick to protocol and get on with the job.
Speaking of challenges – the All Blacks were outplayed by Ireland, again. What is their secret?
I think it's their confidence, to match the All Blacks physically, and the way they are moving the ball.
They can try to go through them and also pop the ball out the back and change the point of attack, which stressed the All Blacks out wide as well.
Whereas the northern teams used to be a few steps behind us, they are a step ahead now I think. Ireland have good variety to their game and play an exciting brand – I enjoy watching them.
What is going wrong with the All Blacks?
They've become a bit predictable on attack. That's frustrating to watch as an ex-All Black and attacking player. With the players we've got that should never happen.
We've got to get the balance right. The All Blacks are so predictable trying to go through them. They need to change the point of attack, stress them a bit wider occasionally.
And I think we've got to kick less. It feels as if we don't have a solution – our Plan B is to go to the air and try to create contestable ball.
It's a bit frustrating to me – I just want to see them play. They've got the ability but they're not using it. We're not playing enough rugby.
What about the Beauden Barrett v Richie Mo'unga debate?
I'm a Richie fan. I think he offers more on attack, more of a running threat.
But the All Blacks have to be playing a style of attack that allows him to do his thing and be a threat. They would need to change their mindset.
Beaudie is a great player and leader, and I'd be happy with either. I don't mind it when they are both on the field.
You were part of New Zealand's most famous selection rivalry, with Andrew Merhtens. Did the two of you ever discuss it?
We never spoke or even joked about it. It never came up.
The rivalry went on for years – it was awesome. Mehrts is a great fella. Looking back, I wouldn't have wanted a rivalry with anyone else, because he is such a genuine bloke.
What's your favourite career memory?
There were a few, so it is hard to pick out. I always go back to my early days, playing for Horowhenua when we won the third division.
I was only 16 or 17, winning my first championship at such a young age and still at school, with my brother in the team. We beat Whanganui in the third division final.
And in the same jersey … playing a Ranfurly Shield game against Auckland in 1994. It's the game which changed my career, gave me the opportunity to move to Auckland. Geez, the team they brought down was awesome. To run out against dudes I looked up to was awesome, coming from a small place like Levin.
Did you have favourite teammates – are you still in touch?
When I first made the Blues, it was Charlie Riechelmann and Adrian Cashmore. They were my boys, who I hung out with the most. When they moved on, it was Kees Meeuws when he joined the Blues. They were the players I really connected with.
I caught up with Cashy in Tauranga a few weeks ago, and still keep in touch with Charlie. I haven't spoken to Kees for a while but was hoping to catch up with him at an All Black dinner.
You have now got 'TV host' on your CV, on Carlos' Reno Rescue…
Yes, I've had a little crack at TV, and I've always loved building things. It was a chance to bring a bit of feel-good to people who do so much for others.
It was a real eye opener. They were people who worried so much about others that they wouldn't take care of themselves. I remember walking into one bedroom and thinking 'how can they live like this?'.
I thoroughly enjoyed it, meeting people, seeing how much time they spend on others. It was a privilege and an honour. It showed how many caring people there are out there. We all get caught up in our own world and don't realise.
We were proud and happy that we could do this for people. We would get bugger all sleep for two days, but it was worth it.
What comes next for you?
I'll get through this fight and then knuckle down to what I want to do. I've thought about TV, maybe even a bit of radio. But it's more about being around home – maybe rugby takes a back seat for now.
'They know how to make a champion. That comes from the culture to begin with.'