Dempsey approached me around 2002 to do an autobiography. We started work on it but it stalled because we couldn't find a publisher.
One of the first sessions we did was that vote. This Q&A is an edited version of an hour-long interview. It has never been published. Dempsey died in 2008 aged 87.
Q. Many are under the impression you were supposed to vote for South Africa if England were knocked out of the running for the World Cup. Was that the case?
A. After we decided to vote for England, the discussion came up [at the Oceania congress] about South Africa and Germany. [Fiji's] Sahu Khan said we should vote for South Africa. Ngalu [Ahongalu Fusimalohi] from Tonga said we should put it to the vote. Sahu said, 'no, I don't want it to go to the vote but we should vote for South Africa'. Ngalu said again, 'let's put it to the vote' and Sahu said, 'no'. There was never a resolution at that point.
Q. In hindsight, was it wrong that you didn't vote to decide where your second vote should go?
A. I would have insisted on it but I didn't place a lot of importance on it at the time. I never realised the intensity a World Cup vote would be about.
Q. Some Oceania delegates felt there was a "general understanding" you would vote for South Africa if England dropped out. Is that correct?
A. There wasn't an understanding. It was a recommendation from a group within Oceania - Sahu Khan and [Solomon Islands representative] Adrian Wickham - but it was never put to the vote. Sahu Khan went on the Holmes programme and said there was a resolution. There was no resolution.
Q. So did you know what you were going to do with your second vote before you went in?
A. Until a couple of days out, I'd probably have voted for South Africa. That was until the pressure came on. I never put a great importance on it. Until the last couple of days, there'd been a lot of banter but not much more.
Q. You hosted delegations in Auckland in the lead-up to the vote which included some big names like Franz Beckenbauer, Bobby Charlton and Jurgen Klinsmann. What was that like? Did you come under pressure then?
A. It was good. You hear what they have to say but I told them all I was voting for England.
Q. Before you headed to Zurich, did anyone try to bribe you?
A. No.
Q. What about football benefits for Oceania?
A. Oh, yeah. That was common. Everyone was offering you coaches and other things. No one was any worse or better than the other. They all had carrots to offer you.
Q. You travelled to Zurich for the vote as Oceania's only representative. All the other confederations had multiple people in their delegation. In hindsight, do you think some others from Oceania should have gone with you?
A. Not until a day-and-a-half before the vote. Until then, I treated it like I treated most things in life, as come what may. I was the only loner. I didn't realise the importance on the vote. Maybe I was stupid, gullible, inexperienced. I never gave any thought to it until the real persuasion started. It wasn't normal practice what happened in Zurich.
Q. What happened?
A. I was Mr Popular.
Q. Who was seeking you out?
A. I could tell you, and this is very delicate. I was taken to a room by four guys and pressured. I can't tell you who they were. I won't tell you who they were. That's where I am drawing the line. I wouldn't sleep at night if I named names.
Q. What were they offering?
A. Anything. You could almost pick what you wanted. It was for me personally. I came under a lot of pressure. I said I'd be consulting back to New Zealand and Oceania about what to do [with the vote]. I had dinner and went back to my room and there was a letter under my door. It said if I voted for Germany and Germany got in ... it would be very beneficial for me for years to come.
Q. Was it from the official German delegation?
A. No. It wasn't Germany football. It didn't have any official letterhead. It gave me a number to ring.
Q. Did you ring it?
A. No. If I'd rung, it would have shown I was interested. I didn't know what to do so I had to get another opinion. I asked Josephine [King, the Oceania general secretary and also Dempsey's daughter] to get in touch with [lawyer] Peter Clapshaw and the members of the Oceania executive. I discussed it with them and told them about the letter [offering bribes] and other offers, like going to Sun City to play golf. I had to wait for them to get back to me. It was about 2am. The problem was I was waiting on a call from New Zealand so I had to answer every bloody call that came through. My phone was going every five or six minutes. I got a call from [Nelson] Mandela. He asked me to vote for South Africa. He said it would do a lot of good for South Africa.
Q. Did Sepp Blatter call you?
A. I could tell you about Sepp Blatter ... he obviously wanted South Africa to win. I was getting calls from both sides. I told them all the same thing, that I was consulting with Oceania to get their opinion. When you get into a dilemma like that, it's not easy to work out what to do so you have to take opinion and act on opinion.
I don't think I slept that night. I was in bed, out of bed. I got a letter faxed from Oceania about 4am or 5am. Six of them [there were 11 on the Oceania executive] said let him use his discretion, he's Johnny on the spot. Two of them later changed, and I know who the two are, denying it. But I won't tell you who.
Q. Whose idea was it to abstain?
A. It was my lawyer's - Peter Clapshaw. He said I had a good name in football and I shouldn't tarnish it. When I got a letter through from him, I read that and decided not to vote. When I got that, I was happy. It was a decision and it suited me. I felt a great relief. I went to breakfast with [Uefa president] Lennart Johannson. I told him what I was doing and showed him the letter.
Q. What happened at the meeting?
A. As soon as the meeting started, I asked permission to speak. I had taken the letter to David Will, who was on the Fifa legal committee, and he read it out. Two guys said, 'oh, we got a letter like that' but they didn't produce it. I was the only one who produced a letter.
We had been told no one could leave until voting had concluded but were also told we wouldn't be given the result until 2pm. I told everyone I was catching a plane at 1.20pm so would have to leave early. It was normal for me because Fifa meetings usually finished at 12 and I'd rush off to the airport to get home. Nobody turned a head because everyone thought Asia was voting for South Africa.
Q. What did you do when it came to the vote?
A. I voted for England. Morocco lost in first round, England in the second. Then I abstained from voting. It's a secret ballot. I could have not said a word and nobody would have known who had abstained.
The meeting concluded about noon. I excused myself and went to the airport. On the plane, one or two knew I was with Fifa and asked me what happened in the vote. I said, 'I think South Africa has got it'. It wasn't until I got to Singapore that I found out. The media were waiting for me [in Singapore] as I came off the plane. How the hell they knew I was on that plane, I'll never know. I thought, 'what the hell is this?' Blatter had said something about me not voting.
Q. You resigned about a week after the vote. To many, that looked like you accepted you made a mistake.
A. I made my decision to resign in September long before the vote. What hastened it was because they got at my daughters and my granddaughter. I thought, 'to hell with it. I don't want to put my family through all of this'. I had been with Oceania since 1964. I was 80 years of age. I thought it was time.
Q. Have you any regrets about what you did?
A. Under the same circumstances, I would do exactly the same again. After I received the letter [advising me I could use my discretion], I felt good that I didn't vote.
