Two of the world's best batsmen spent a few days in New Zealand some years back.
Australia's captain at that time was Bill Lawry. Yes, the same "scotteem!, scone!" Bill Lawry from the commentary box.
A chap who didn't know much about cricket but knew plenty about human dynamics, met the pair - Ian Chappell and Doug Walters - at a function. Later, he was told one of them was poised to replace Lawry as Australia's next skipper. Which one did he think it was?
No hesitation. Chappell. Both were then, and remained for the next decade, great cricketers. But only one was a natural leader.
Chappell was a skipper who made walnuts seem soft. He was highly successful, inspired tremendous loyalty from his players and wasn't a heap of fun to play against.
Mike Brearley was one of England's most successful captains. Playing against a Chappell-led team "turned a cricket match into gang warfare", he said.
Brearley was a pointy-headed, Oxbridge type, only modest as a batsman but a clever thinker who inspired Ian Botham to some of his greatest feats. Very different from Chappell, but extremely adept at pushing the right buttons to draw the best from his players.
Now think of Ricky Ponting and George Gregan.
Ponting's leadership in the Ashes series has been attacked by Chappell and Steve Waugh, his predecessor and a pivotal figure in test cricket's revitalisation as the version of the game to watch.
As he faces the prospect of being the first Australian captain to lose the Ashes for 18 years, Ponting has lost the plot over English substitute fielding tactics and has been unmasked as inadequate when things are getting wobbly.
In truth, Ponting has never been thought of as a fine captain. He inherited a wonderful team who have crushed the opposition almost operating on autopilot.
Even if Australia win at the Oval next week to retain the urn, the balance of cricket power has undeniably shifted. Australia's cone of invincibility has been shattered.
Ponting and Gregan differ in a couple of respects. Ponting's job - as distinct from his position as the team's pre-eminent batsman - is shaky. For Gregan it's both.
And the Tasmanian right-hander's captaincy has never really been scrutinised until now, whereas Gregan has frequently been examined since he took over from John Eales in 2001.
Cricket leadership differs from rugby in that - Brearley being a fine example - brainpower allied to moderate talent can suffice.
Rugby doesn't work that way. A captain must be a strong contributor in physical as well as mental terms.
Since his debut in 1994, the little halfback's place was unquestioned until the last World Cup.
A brave, committed defender, a yappy presence behind the scrum, a sniping attacker, Gregan can reflect on being an essential element in some of the Wallabies' great days.
Now the whispers are becoming more urgent. Tonight, his 114th test, might also be his last. Time to look at the World Cup they say.
That is over two years away. Gregan is 32. You do the sums.
The key bit in all this is who to replace him with. And remember, that player must be better.
Chris Whitaker? No. An honest journeyman, not an influential World Cup heavyweight.
Matt "Iceman" Henjak? Probably the best bet, once he has served his penance after being sent home from South Africa after late-night hijinks in a bar.
Will Gregan be persuaded to stand down? It would go against his feisty streak. This week he's been talking about being in France in two years' time.Which means Eddie Jones might be having an awkward conversation with his long-time lieutenant soon.
Gregan has never been an inspirational figure in the mould of Eales, but he has been highly successful. Who might replace him as captain? Phil Waugh or Stirling Mortlock are names touted as those who could make a decent fist of the job.
Ponting's position has been safe as the current swiftly flowed Australia's way.
Gregan is staring a hard truth and Father Time in the eye tonight.
Two Aussie battlers on the run.
<EM>David Leggat:</EM> Two Aussie captains up against it
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