KEY POINTS:
Stephen Fleming stood down as captain of New Zealand's one-day cricket side following their 81-run loss to Sri Lanka in the World Cup semifinals.
An earlier published view claiming to be from a Kane Williamson was not from the Kane Williamson who is in a junior NZ team. This email has been removed.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Kalyar
Fleming was not only a decent captain but a innocent looking face on the field.He did very fine job as a whole for his country.
Garry
Well Martin always had trouble keeping his hair on now it looks like he's lost his mind as well.
Mark Pinder
There were two basic problems with the team. First, they didn't pick me. Second, they just don't hit the ball far enough or hard enough when batting, unlike me in the Rangitoto College 3rd XI. Enough said.
Steven
The BC's didn't put up a fight, where was their ANZAC spirit!. Poor pressure bowling, immature batting, no leadership. Time for the coach to pack his bags and a fresh captain (hopefuly not the self-serving Vettori) to take the reins.
Lindsay
You must have a solid top order batsmen to be continually competitive at the top level. We are always going to lose if the middle order also does not fire. Loss of Lou Vincent was a vital blow notwithstanding Fulton developing well. Sadly Fleming and taylor could not get going when it really mattered and we were simply outclassed on the day.
Tcooke
We were simply outplayed, and have never been up to the standard required to seriously challenge the top two sides for a finals berth. Unfortunately this was the result I had expected (even tho I hoped otherwise). We need a much more stable top order before we can consider ourselves "worldbeaters"
David Brown
Fleming has been a wonderful captain, and internationally regarded as one of the very best. At times he has really been better than the country deserved. Representing a country obsessed by moaning, whining and negativity can't be easy, but he's taken NZ to #3 in the world - and those still complaining about him might want to ask how that performance compares with that of India or Pakistan.'
Marcel
Stephen Flemming should have stepped down as Captain a few years ago which would have seen Chris Cairns still in the team. He should have batted 6th or 7th down during the world cup series .
David B
I agree with Stephen's decision to step down. He obviously gave it his all and has done so for the past ten years most of these as captain. His lack of consistency with scoring runs has hurt our performance with getting consistent good scores but the top 4 batsmen have to accept responsibility here not just Stephen.
Todays result underscored our weakness at the top of the innings which costs us important games time after time by not scoring enough runs. The team cannot rely on the middle to lower order to win games consistently as this must come from someone in the top 4 or 5 putting their hand up and scoring a big score every game ideally.
Best wishes to the team for the future and I do believe they underperformed and should have done better than they did. A change of coach, well perhaps, John Bracewell has been in charge for a while now and perhaps someone else could get better performance from individual players.
Ketan
Personally i think NZ choked on this big stage. They had many a chance to take the upper hand but always let it slip. A team that takes its chances and holds its nerve such as Sri Lanka did today will always prevail. 5 times we have reached the semis and not gone on to the final. Proof enough?
Attila
This is ridiculous. New Zealand haven`t had a quality bowling attack ever since Fleming has been captain. Most importantly, never had a bowler who can take wickets without the batsman playing risky shots. (except Shane Bond, but he`s been on and off the pitch). Now if you don`t have such bowlers, like Murali, Warne or Hogg, then you can`t take wickets unless you make them play risky shots. You can`t make them play risky shots, unless you take away the easy singles. And this is the great flaw in Fleming`s captaincy: he allowed containment cricket to flourish, without trying to prevent easy cheap singles. For many years, Dan Vettori has been regarded as the best New Zealand ODI bowler, even though he never took wickets, but he went for `only` 3 or 4 runs an over in the middle of the innings. Excuse me? How the hell do you want to win cricket matches if you`re happy to give away 4 runs an over without taking a wicket? You can`t, unless it`s a great batting pitch and you`re confident chasing a big total.That`s been one of the greatest flaws in the Black Caps` game, defensive captaincy. Glad it`s finally over, I just hope Vettori`s not next in line. He`s Mr Containment cricket.
Glenn
What a disappointing end to the World Cup. Theres no doubt that Fleming has been a great servant of NZ cricket & a great captain, but i do believe it is a wise move to step down from the captaincy, and its burdens.
Wouldn't it be great if he now proved his immense talent as a batsmans & scored some serious runs, with out those other decisions & responsibilities on his mind.This would probably length his test career if it happened that way.
Liam
I don`t think he was a good captain. He was a smart tactician, but a captain needs to lead by example more than anything else. He needs to show others that it can be done, to ooze self-belief and mental toughness. He needs to be able to communicate clearly, know the areas that need improving, and make his players understand that the benchmark is always perfection. (See mr Ponting) How could Stephen Fleming preach about perfection, when he`s a mediocre batsman who chokes under criticism and pressure? Time for him to go, the bad news is that Vettori ain`t any better. He`s a mediocre bowler, and should not even have a secure spot in the team, let alone captain it.
Veritas
The NZ team was at its peak during the late summer tour by the "practise" Australian Team and during the early stages of the cup. Their player's form dropped off during the past month. In contrast Australia rested players and did not mind ignominious defeats at the hands of NZ as they were future planning for the main game. The NZ teams form going into the worldcup was superb and they were touted as potential cup winners. However this is a long tournament and the form cycle has to be properly managed
Lionel Wilson
This is the best news I've heard!! In my opinion Flemming is the No1 reason that NZ Cricket is wallowing in the depths of despair.
His leadership is non-existent and never has been. His resignation is long over due, what a pity he waited until NZ were out of the World Cup Competition!
Eduardo
No he was not a great captain, he was always more reactive and not proactive enough in his field placings. His batting with an average of 32 was poor for a first class player and captain.
OJ, Brisbane, Australia
Its about time Fleming has stood down,but why did he have to wait until getting his ass kicked by Aussie and Sri Lanka, The writing has been on wall, so hes not even good enough to be opening batsman,Your coach can resign to, and all use by dates, McMillan and co, Get some more Maoris in your team, we are born with ball skills, eye co ordination We are natural at any sport, and you pakeha need it coached into you. You fellas cant even bat, and dont have the will 2 win like Aussie do, until that time arrives, and whos to say that it will in the next World cup,You are all a Bunch of dreamers and to answer your question, Geoff Howarth was the best Capt, NZ ever had, so was Bevan Congdon, Fleming a distant 8th.
Ray
NZ was probably outplayed by a better team, but they may also have peaked too soon and maybe the captain and coach have had their day? The final should be worth watching if Australia and Sri Lanka meet.
Diane McIvor
As sad as it may be for Stephen Fleming, I think his resignation from the one day captaincy is long overdue. His inconsistancy has let his team and New Zealand down on too many occasions. I also question whether he should be leading the Black Caps test team, or even be in the team itself. It is time to give some of the young contenders the opportunity to prove themselves.
Sandy
Should have stood down before they got to the Carribbean.He had passed his use by date but for some reason the media continued to beat up his supposed abilities.His batting this season ,generally ,has been appalling.His first century made at the expense of losing the game.For an opening batsman his recent scoring has been poor.When interviewed his comments, I believe, came across as arrogant.
Darren Mendonsa
Fleming has been a good leader and competent captain. It's sad that he has to go now but we wish him all the best in this decision that he has made. I'm sure Vettori (or the new successor) will have a hard task and a high reputation to live up to. Go, the black caps!
Tim
I personally think Fleming's comments after the game were rather disgusting. It gave me the impression that he went into today's game without the drive to even bother winning, let alone win the world cup.
Fleming should seriously consider his future in NZ Cricket altogether... He doesn't look to be motivated and hasn't looked motivated for a while. The only time he does come out with this desire is when he needs to put on a good score, to make up for the string of low scores and get the public off his back.
Mike
Fleming is the most under performing player at the world cup, and would do well to stand down from all cricket before he embarrasses himself (and the rest of us) even more !
krish
I believe it was the right move, we need some one who can lead by example where it matters the most on the pitch, look at ponting for aussie for instance.to be honest stris will be a gud captain.
David Sims
I think we have to admit that the end of an era has arrived. Stephen Fleming has proven that as far as captaincy goes, he is an innovator and leader in world cricket. So say his peers and opponents. I don't want to discredit the black caps but when one considers the pool of 'talent' in his command, what has been achieved has been fairly miraculous on occasions. I think that this is where we as kiwis lose faith however. "On occasions". Too often we see unbelievable feats followed up with unbelievable shambles on the field. Flem has to front up for such disasters as the top dog. Flem is the greatest run scorer we have, sure, he's not got the conversion stats of a Martin Crowe in tests or Astle in ODI's but he has always batted with elegance, class and skill. I look forward to his continuing efforts in the test arena and hope he can score a few more hundreds. Perhaps a heavier test schedule might do our cricket some good. Whatever happens, as long as our test team has fleming in it, NZ will have the best tactical captain in the world. Cheers flem, i'll still be watching!
Kent
Stephen Flemings departure is about three years too late and doesn't include test matches. All to often this "premier batsman" has failed miserably. His last 30 innings against test playing nations gives him an average of only 27. Not bad for a bowler/batsman. A joke for a premium batsman. If you remove his scores against the Windes who have been a joke lately, his average isn't much better than Franklins. His conversion rates are pathetic and on Wednesday morning, Fleming had the chance to stand up as a captain and produce his finest hour. But, as we have come to expect from this so called leader, he failed to deliver.....Again.
Terri
Yes I thought NZ were better and didn't bash their sportsmen as much as Aussies. Funny noone bagged Fleming as captain when we wiped them 3 nill in NZ this summer. Flem has been the best he can be and a tighter organiser in the field will be hard to find. You are only as good as all the members in the team and the mental side of NZ sports compared to the killer instinct and public "take no excuses" that Australian public demand of all their pro sports players comes from grass roots up - keep doing the best you can NZ and if we dont make it as the best on the day but have done our best - then thats all we can ask.
Anthony
No not Vettori for captain of the one day side. He's a pretty good bowler, ok batsman but not a very good fielder. Yeah, he is just a clunky clumsy fielder not the kind of guy that inspires me to give him my vote as captain. I think he's a certainty for test matches but for the one day game, I haven't been a believer in him for a while. For captain I would go with Oram
Joe Rankin
I for one think that Fleming is a victim of a volatile fan base in NZ. Most New Zealand sports fans tend to get fanatical with support when a team is winning but are quick to lash out at coaches and captains through the tough times. The fact is, that Fleming is arguably the best captain in world cricket. Going into the Semi finals, Fleming did not have the batting lineup that Australia or the overall brilliance that Sri Lanka, posses, however he was able to compete with these sides that have far superior talent and even win on occasion. He has is a great tactician and was always a pleasure to watch in the field. So comeon New Zealand, lets show some support for a man who has helped the Blackcaps get to the WC semis, instead of blaming a Captain who found that his team was simply outplayed on the day.
Nick
Fleming should have stepped down 5 years ago from all captainship duties not just one day comps! The bc's have performed miserably under his leadership although it wasnt entirely his fault. Time now for NZ Cricket to work on future players instead of relying on tired and injury prone players such as Vitorri et al.
David Sims
Dan Vettori? Are you kidding? If there had been a system whereby Fleming had eased him into the role, sure, maybe. He just doesn't seem like captaincy material to me. Having said that, who would have picked how his career would turn out when he debuted as a teenager. Perhaps he can have the same success. Other options? Well, I think Oram is an obvious leader. As an outside chance? How about McCullum? Fleming was young when he started and he grew into the role. A Keeper is an ideal role in the team as captain. Long shot, but not totally stupid in my opinion.
Bobby
Captain good, (most of the time). Batsman rubbish (all of the time). Yes he's scored a few 50's, but his conversion rate is not good enough for an opener and frankly never was. Sadly he's been reduced to 3-shot Flem these days, one of which almost certainly gets him out lbw every time. If he's not being bogged down he's getting out having wasted a good percentage of his deliveries. It's not about him being captain really, he has never been exceptionally poor at that, now NZ needs to develop something far more consistant at the top of the order. Its just not good enough having your number 3 coming in after 2 overs every time! frustrating and more than a mild observation, its a fact, Fleming not always the culprit no, but more often than not these days. Well done Fleming, loved your work, (about 5 years ago). Bring back Spearman.
David Sims
How many people would have backed the BlackCaps from ball one if they knew that our number 10 and 11 would contribute 70 runs to the total? I guess this just makes the loss even more frustrating. Murali? Yeah, dubious catch. I don't think you can call that giving the benefit of the doubt to the batsman. Having said that, McCullum and Oram would have to feel a little embarrassed with there dismissals. The 'Lankans still had to put the ball on the spot. I thought the measure of the match really lay with Jayawardne. Two words. Total Control. I hope they absolutely cane the Ockers.
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