KEY POINTS:
Here is the next selection of your views:
Stuart
So 650,000 years ago CO2 levels were the same as they are now. I didn't realise we had a highly developed technological civilisation that long ago. Seeing as we are apparently the only species on the earth that can apparently affect these levels. Y2K, SARS, Mad Cow here we go again. As for "Climate Change" - well, it does. Someone mooted the idea of promoting Enzed as a Gold Coast type resort as a result (not in seriousness I realise), tell me the last time you remember a hot summer (2 weeks this year, 4 weeks last year), and last winter is one of the coldest I remember. Back in the 70's I remember every year we had water rationing, stupendous droughts, extreme fire risk every summer with fire bans. That certainly hasn't happened over a lot of the country for a loooong time. And to those who mention 2500 scientists with irrefutable "facts" - I would think there are a few more than 2500 scientists in the world. P.S. NZ apparently is an horrific contributor to greenhouse gases (Labour has always hated farmers and landowners - just think back to our "honourable" finance minister when he said he didn't believe in private property ownership). Anyway, at 0.06 per cent of the global population and sod-all heavy industry I think that is a little unfair, and ridiculous for us to start coughing up to change the world. Let's face it, most people in the world wouldn't even have a clue who or where we are.
Chris S
The other day I picked up a 10-year old copy of National Geographic. Coverstory: "El Nino"... Everyone remember that ? Well, flip through the article, it's being blamed for forest fires, storms, drought, starvation, locusts.... you name it. Sound like a familiar story ? The weather has always been bad. That's nature. Back then it was blamed on "El Nino" and given that global warming has supposedly be ramping up like crazy in the past 100 years, I am sure these thousands of so-called experts would have spotted the trend 10 years ago, but "global warming" wasn't a hip topic then and the "scientists" weren't being dished out millions of dollars worth of self serving "research" money. Right now I am living in Northern Canada and the winter is abnormally long this year. The deer are starving to death because the ice has not melted and they can't get to the grass. It's supposed to be spring. There are dead deer all over the neighbourhood. This doesn't seem to get reported, wonder why ?
Jan Peart
Thank you Garth. For too long we have felt as if we are the only doubters in this "global warming" rort. We would like to be here in 2040 to say "told you so"ourselves. One question:- Where are the investigative media reports, giving fair hearing to both sides of this over emphasised scientific squabble, so that us "mushrooms" can draw our own conclusions? Oh that is right. We need to be told what to believe, I forgot.
Andrew Harvey
I think this guy just could not be bothered writing something original, so he just cut and pasted something controversial. Typical of a NZ Herald columnist really. Regardless, it's a typical attitude for someone of his generation. What is known is that carbon dioxide levels are substantially higher now than at any time in the last 800,000 years and this is contributing to increasing temperatures.
Katie
Everywhere one turns there is a new argument on Global Warming, sometimes stating that it is really happening, and other times saying that is merely a political campaign. What I want to know is, if we are not sure, why would we take our chances? There is plenty of evidence supporting it, so why shouldn't people give scientist the benefit of the doubt, and start trying to reduce carbon emission? If the environmentalists are wrong, it's not the end of the world. And if they're right, then everyone will know that they did their part to help. But if those in denial don't heed these warnings, and wait for 20 years only to learn that Global Warming really does exist, it will be too late.
Paul
Does one really need scientific training to work out we've been full on polluting for a 100 years and it aint going into space. Even if there is no global warming at least it is bringing out attention to the fact we waste and pollute and poison basically everything and it's time to change...is that bad?
David
An absolute load of rubbish. Greenhouse gases do not exist. How can they when CO2 is heavier that air therefore cannot go up. CO2 is absorbed by vegetation and water. The current weather patterns are part of a larger cycle which is impossible to measure the length of as weather records do not go back further enough. Global warming and climate change is nothing but a cunning ploy for scientists to extract large amounts of money in the form of government and private sector grants and allows politicians to further their own personal agendas.
Mark(Christchurch)
The world is full of illusions and self-delusions. Whether or not climate change is the latest of these matters less than we might want to believe. You may agree or disagree with the IPCC or its detractors, but you must recognise that humans have had a significant impact on the world in which we live. Our ecosystem will adapt even if we choose not to do so ourselves. If you consider suggestions of environmental damage from the consumption of carbon reserves, particularly oil and gas, a myth, you still cannot reasonably overlook or deny the massive social, economic and political changes that have resulted from our dependence upon these resources. Not all of these changes have been for the better. If concern about climate change encourages the consideration and development of alternatives (not just new technology but new priorities), we should be thankful not fearful. The increasing competition for last century's solution will place our quality of life at increasing risk if we do not find other ways to live than those we rely upon so heavily today.
Nicolas Laugeon
No matter what anyone says about climate change, let's just use our good sense. Human activities in the last century until today have been heavily based on oil and coal burning. These unwanted carbons have been stored in the underground for millions of years by nature, releasing them in the atmosphere has to have a consequence on the environment and of course to our health.
Chris
Suddenly George thinks he knows more than the thousands of scientists who have spent years researching this? He's not a good journalist let alone scientist. If he was, he would have done at least the most basic research and he would know that the discrepancy between the satellite data and ground based temperature records have long since been resolved.
http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap1-1/finalreport/sap1-1-final-execsum.pdf
If he's looking for some facts to back up his ignorant and selfish stance, he's going to have to look a lot harder than that
Alan Hawke B.Sc. M.Sc.(Geology) - Auckland University
Garth, great article and I truely believe that you are correct. I am an Earth Scientist (read geologist) who has lived and worked in and visited many countries and I must admit that I do support vehicle emission reduction but as a way of trying reduce pollution in a number of the large cities of the world. As for Global Warming - what a lot of bunk!!! People only have to read the Geological records to realise that climate change has fluctuated ever since the earth was formed! I must also agree with the planting of "Green Stuff" but for the wrong reasons given - re-greening in Northern China, where I live, has started to take effect in enhancing the beauty of this country as well as helping control the wind blown dust problems that we encounter here, as well as stabilising the encroachement of the deserts. Congratulations on your article in the Herald and I am sure that you will get a lot of positive response to that but also, unfortunately some negative ones as well, but keep up the good work!!
G.R.Osborne
I have been away from New Zealand for several years so it's certainly disturbing to see a born-again blowhard being granted such a platform to express his head-in-the-sand ignorance.Recently-deceased writer Kurt Vonnegut had this to say: When the last living thing has died on account of us,how poetical it would be if Earth could say,in a voice floating up perhaps from the floor of the Grand Canyon, It is done. People did not like it here.
Gordon Gray
Of course Garth George is right the whole purpose of this foolish exercise is to extract further taxation from the masses in the guise of protecting the planet. If Al Gore is so concerned about global warming how come he lives in a very large power consuming mansion? Why is he closely associated with a company which stands to make huge profits from carbon trading, How come he hasnt sold his shares in one of Americas largest oil companies? Dream on you greens!!
Derek Speed
Hey Garth, being as your so smart, can you tell me what the human population of this planet would be right now, if no humans killed any humans for the last two thousand years like the Bible suggests? If the average human gives of 25 000 BTU's of body heat, what's 25 000 times 6.5 billion equal? If we use oil to reduce the heat in our vehicles motors, does the planet use it as a natural source of heat reduction? The human population on this planet has more than doubled in the last 40 years from 3 billion to 6.5 billion. How long before there is 30 billion people on this planet? Where do you put 30 billion people and have enough horticultural and agricultural space to sustain it? Do you think it's a coincidence that S.A.R.S comes out of the most over populated country on this planet? Do you think it's a coincidence that all the ice on this planet is melting at a record rate? Greenland looks a lot different now than it did forty years ago. I think Garth should go to L.A and take a deep breath.
Max Dennison
If meteorologists have difficulty in getting the weather forecast even partly correct for as short a period as a week ahead, how is it we can predict what the weather will visit on us 40 years hence? There is evidence that the earth has ridden out fluctuating temperatures since the year dot, but I would still think twice before buying land directly above the high water mark. Nothing like hedging your bets. But we should look at who benefits most from the climate scare-mongering. If it convinces some of the owners of gunge-belching 4wd vehicles we encounter too often, into having some maintenance done, that can't be bad, now cant it.
Mike Brennan
Although I don't normally agree with the many views Garth George has recently espoused,particularly on religion,I do agree here. Mr George may well have added that global warming theories are for the spiritually devoid.A new cult for those who can not find belief in the supernatural.
Simon McManus
Thanks Garth, some really helpful and inciteful quotes you've picked there. So if the weatherman says its going to rain later i'd presume you'd plan to walk outside in the smog rather than drive your tank, just so you could proudly state he was wrong? I can't claim to be completely brainwashed by Global warming hype. But I would certainly prefer that we didn't have smog, that we could swim at Mission Bay without considering what level the toxicity is today, that swimming without a full body lycra suit might even be considered sane. Surely we know that smog is wrong? Or is the jury still out on all those New Yorkers that suffer chest conditions? If you suffered one yourself you'd probably ignore the doctor and get a 2nd opinion from a naturapath, just so you could prove the doctor wrong? Thanks for your useful input to the debate, mate.
David
As for me, I'll keep on driving my 4-litre Falcon, use as much water and electricity as I want, take as many airline flights as I please, and keep the woodburner well stoked throughout the winter." For a country with a relatively low population density, New Zealand's air quality can be very poor. The most significant concern is wintertime air pollution in urban centres, where emissions from domestic solid fuel heaters generate high ambient concentrations of particulate matter. Vehicle pollution is also an important source in the larger cities. Recent research has estimated that as many as 900 people may die prematurely each year in New Zealand from the effects of air pollution and that the cost to the New Zealand taxpayer of the health effects of air pollution is greater than six hundred million dollars per year. Garth George, you're a complete knob!
Frank Heydicko
Yes George everyone in the world should have a 4ltr Falcon, woodburner, abundant clean water supply and use them with impunity. The denuding of the earths forests to feed all those woodburners won't of course have any adverse affects on the supply of fresh water and petrol, eh George? But then as you say you will not be around, most likely sufocated (or drowned!) burying your head in the sand.
John
What ever Garth George says he is not an expert. He, like the rest of us is trying to understand the scientific arguments of people who know more than we do about this. He knows less then either side but has chosen to give only one side of the argument. He has decided to choose whichever argument suits him best. I have seen evidence which supports both the green house gas theory and the solar radiation theory, see the accompanying picture, sorry for the quality but it shows a very strong correlation between CO2 and global temperatures. Both arguments look reasonable, I cannot say for sure who is right. Both say the earth is warming, one says its our fault. Potentially this could be catastrophic, it seems sensible to me to take reasonable steps now to offset the impact and also remove the potential causes. At this point I do not see any other rational response. Garth George may want to play fast and lose with a loaded gun, our children will not thank him for that.
Grant Harding
"As for me, I'll keep on driving my 4-litre Falcon, use as much water and electricity as I want, take as many airline flights as I please, and keep the woodburner well stoked throughout the winter." This pretty much sums up Garth George's selfish motives. He's trying to make people believe that there's no human element to the climate change that is currently happening (if you don't believe the climate is changing, then you probably saw the Easter Bunny on the weekend). I guess this allows him to continue his greedy plunder and still sleep at night. It's not like he's going to learn any new tricks at this point anyway, so I can understand his motives. The tragic part is that he claims that those devious scientists are making it all up to secure their research funding. This would be funny if the implications were not so severe.
Stuart
Bugger me, I thought if I put water in a saucepan and heated it on the stove that it would come to the boil, but by George's Neanderthal logic, not being able to demonstrate 'exactly' how the water will circulate means that it isn't boiling at all....cool! Isn't it amazing how uncommon common sense really is. You know, facing the choice of accepting the word of economists, 'big oil', the coal industry and governments whose power rests in the strength of public perception control; or a few individuals with relatively little to gain and the guts to tell it how it really is, the choice is obvious to me. Like you said George, you won't be around in 2040 and the sooner thoughtless fossils like you depart this earth, the quicker smart people can arrest a hundred or so years of plundering for personal gain.
John G
I'm sick of these climate change-deniers who either claim that humans are not responsible for the change in temperature, or who say that there will be many positive outcomes. The simple facts are: 1. We are living in one of the many moderate climate periods that occurs between ice ages. 2. As our actions trap greenhouse gases, the global temperature rises earlier than it would have naturally. 3. Global warming is melting the fresh water at both poles. As the pole ice decreases, there is less white surface on the Earth to deflect heat, which also increases warming. 4. As the fresh water from the poles hits the ocean salt water, it disrupts the jet streams that moves water from the equator to north and south and back again, keeping Northern and Southern hemispheres in a moderate climate. 5. Last time the jet streams stopped (for whatever reason), the resulting sudden temperature change created an ice age. Evidence for the sudden ice age include woolly mammoths found snap-frozen in ice with daisies in their mouths (they lived on the grassy plains). 6. But we have other problems to face before the next ice age hits - bees are disappearing from North America (if they keep disappearing, crops will fail), amphibians are dieing globally from temperature-related diseases, coral is beginning to die out (and so too are species that depend on it), etc. We may be able to live in a wide temperature range, but other species cannot.
Daniel Sloan
No. Garth George look like Santa had a shave, and then melted - thus proving the very existence of global warming.
Jonathan Church
Mr George and almost all of the anti-global warming lobby overlook one overwhelming fact, rates of change. It is hard to say if an increased amount of C02 will increase the global temperature (such as in dinosaur times) but the rate at which C02, methane and nitrous oxide are increasing is unparalleled in earths history. Ice cores are quite accurate in showing us what was, and although the current C02 and methane level is hovering around a record high (depends who's taking the measurements) the steepness of the increase coincides exactly with humanity's entry into the industrial age and subsequent increase in population. A graph of Temperature increase overlaps both quite well also. Heres an analogy - when you cook a live prawn you don't just crank the temperature up to the maximum or it screams, you raise it slowly and it adjusts and doesn't notice. If Greenhouse gases are the heat and if earth is the prawn, we should pray it is not going to scream and thrash.
John Pollard
Garth George is a moron! This is not an issue of belief or not, it's not a religion, it's a matter of science. He's got his head in the sand... go back to the bowls club you silly old out of touch fool.
Richard Amery
Question:Are humans causing the current round of global warming? unproven, many say. Will this particular global warming period be permanent? unlike all the others which were not.What difference can New Zealand make anyway? I have heard around 0.02 per cent If we put the same amount of energy and money into more urgent matters like poverty, education and crime, would it benefit our future generations more certainly? yes, undoubtedly! So why on earth should we get so steamed up about global warming? we shouldn't.
Robert
Not to forget all these posts here are just opinions! I'd hazard the guess that none here are climate scientists so there's really no significance in the opinions given here. Even the climate scientists disagree widely amongst themselves and ultimately no-one knows anything for certain. Asking the general public this kind of question is really not very productive and looks to me just like an excuse to get a wildfire going. On the other hand, my personal opinion in this case is that it's better to err on the side of caution, besides it can't hurt to be more gentle on nature. After all, it has been known that human arrogance has cause many troubles in the past...
Pete
Look at what happened to the geezer that first said the earth was round. He was crucified. I hope that the masses wake up and smell the coffee before the multitude of dependant-upon-research-funds scientists completely pull the wool over the eyes of the mostly ignorant global population. Global warming is a complete myth propagated by those eyeing an easy buck. The first earth summit held in the 1970's was focused on the need to protect the environment from a catastrophic change in climate. It was global cooling! The next ice age! Once Al Gore and his cronies have sucked enough dough from our collective wallets you'll hear less and less of this imminent global warming catastrophe. It is arrogance of the extreme to think that human actions can have such a debilitating effect on the planet. Give the earth some credit people!
Ernie Heafield
It does not need 250 words. Anybody who has an ounce of brain knows that what he says is perfectly true. In a nutshell the earth has warmed up and cooled down naturally many times over the past millions of years.
Rakesh Krishnan
Good Grief, never knew there were so many ostriches (head in the sand)in New Zealand. Isn't the national bird the Kiwi? LOL
John
Garth George is a Christian. This immediately discredits him when it comes to any scientific debate. God wouldn't let anything bad happen to earth, so why care? Lets all get big V8 Ford Falcons and race around the country. Polluting isn't a sin, right? He's an old man, who won't live long enough to witness how wrong he is. I'll put my faith in the PhDs not the opinionated Christians.
Wei Yuen Loo
Garth is the one full of hot air. Of course the geological record shows frequent and massive fluctuations in climatic conditions - but over geolgoical time - not the massive changes we have seen over the past few decades. The preponderance of the evidence supports the global warming scenario. And even if it was a 50-50 thing - or even 80-20 against global warming - surely it would still be incumbent on us to prepare for the worst case scenario now. We only have one throw of the dice at this - no-one has yet discovered another planet capable of supporting life. After all we pay hundreds of dollars in life insurance premiums to cover for contingencies that are far less likely than 50-50.
Adam Roys
All this doomsday speculation is conjured up by the city councils just so they can try & extract even more rates out of us already over-taxed homeowners.
Stuart Dowling
I read today in the Herald a story about the Franz Joseph Glacier and fears by glaciologists that it will melt away in the next 100 years. (Apparently they used the IPCC model of global warming). However the 'inconvenient truth' is that the glacier has been advancing recently - even though we have had the warmest temperatures of the century (according to the IPCC). The scientists explanation for this - the El Nino effect, a natural phenomenon even the most rabid enviromentalist can't link to green house gases, has somehow overcome the "catastrophic" effects of anthropogenic global warming! Amazing what nature can do isn't it! Maybe there is something to the scientific argument that the warming that is currently occurring - to levels last seen in the Middle Ages - may be due to the biggest source of warmth to the planet, the Sun. As an aside I was interested to note that the IPCC had a science committee - if they weren't all scientists what did all the others involve add to the scientific research?!
Ron Southern
Another ploy to employ mates in government who are unemployable nature as been happening for ever and there is no evidence that that it cannot carry on. One eruption does more pollution than 10 years of man made pollution but as a country gets the government it deserves then if you want to believe in our leaders then carry on . I will have to vote with my feet if this government carries on as I will not be paying the new sukkers tax.
Phillip Taylor
Ice age or heat wave? Why do some people see climate change with such shock. It's always happened, and always will. Get used to it. Human activity may or may not contribute, but we must adapt or die.
Shaughn Prestidge
Global Warming and Climate change is definitely happening and should not be ignored. There is scientific data in the Antarctic Ice Cores dating back over 400,000 years which includes time periods through 4-5 ice ages. Take a look at the graphs at
http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionary_Planning/New_Data/
Each year the snow falls in the Antarctic tiny bubbles a captured which scientists can accurately measure the carbo dioxide(CO2) levels and the temperature of that year. Based on the graphs made with this data over 400,000 years it shows a very close relationship to CO2 levels and temperature. Each time in history when CO2 levels went above 300 parts per million (we are now at 370ppm), temperatures rose quickly melting the polar ice caps, then temperatures fell again just as quickly sending the planet into an ice age. This occurred because all the fresh melting water from the polar regions mixed with salt water ocean currents shutting down the Earth's thermohaline "conveyor belts". Life on Earth is in serious trouble with a repeat of history being a big possibility. These scientific facts strongly suggest that we are at least partly to blame for global warming and it should not be ignored.
Bruce King (PhD in physics)
Garth George is an ostrich with his head buried in the sand. His article cherry-picks the views of a tiny number contrarian scientists over the consensus of over 2000 of the world's scientific experts, as expressed in the recent reports from the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). The IPCC is like a worldwide version of a 'Royal Commission of Enquiry'. It presents the scientific consensus in a form that is easily understood by governments and other non-experts, and it makes for sobering reading. The IPCC reports can be downloaded from www.ipcc.ch . The pdf-format files of their 2 most recent 'Summaries for policy makers' are at http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf and http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM6avr07.pdf .
Al Gore's movie 'An Inconvenient Truth' is also in quite good scientific agreement with the IPCC reports.
I know it is easiest to be like Garth George and deny there is a problem. However, it is actually not too difficult to face up to reality and become part of the solution. For example, I'm glad that NZ is part of the Kyoto Treaty and that the Government is moving towards 100 per cent renewable electricity generation.
Dale
Garth George is quite right to warn us off reading hot air about global warming. His is the first burst of hot air that I will be ignoring. Most of those arguing against global warming speak entirely from self-interest. This includes the ones who are being paid to argue against it by oil, mining, car manufacturing and similar lobby groups. I'd rather place my faith in an international panel of scientists than in an assortment of paid lobbyists and conspiracy theorists. Shame on you, Garth Guzzler.
Dale Stevens
Dear Garth, I'm glad you mentioned the flat earth analogy as there are some parallels here (though probably not as you seem to see them). As Schopenhauer points out, "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self evident." This indeed happened when it was first proposed that the Earth was flat... and lo and behold, it's happening here too. I'm glad that there is such violent opposition to Global climate change as it means we're getting closer to accepting it as being self evident. PS I have chopped out your article, but only because I will have great delight in one day showing my grandchildren how Schopenhauer's theory, stands the test of time.
Richard Beniston
Sigh. Mr George, do we really need to point out that you're choosing to listen to the tiny minority of scientists who believe that global warming may not be man made? Do we really need to stress that sustainable use of our resources is the only sensible way to manage our future on the planet whatever the cause of global warming? Do we really need to laugh at the irony of Professor Bob Carter's nonsensical reference to a "self-interested gaggle of journalists, environmental lobbyists, scientific and business groups, church leaders and politicians"? And do we really need to question why the Herald gives copy space to such a transparently daft piece of liberal baiting? Do we? Must we? Honestly? Sigh. It's very tiring you silly little man.
Colin
Fool.
Sam
Of course he is right, has anybody heard of any of these scientist on the IPCC prior to them making recommendations, what do the real scientist say, they are almost all saying it is not happening. May be some one can explain why most of the other planets in the solar system are currently slightly warmer that usual (may some of the early probes were combustion engine models). Nature adapts, wild life on the verge of extinction is thriving around Chernobyl, yes that is because man is not there but Science would tell you that this should not happen. We live in a society that thrives on mis- information, I only wish someone had used the terms like putting our heads in the sand like Ostriches or jumping off a cliff like Lemmings. Both of these things don't happen, they are made up, Walt Disney's film crew swept the Lemmings over the cliff for a famous documentary and another documentary team thought it would be fun to sneak up on an Ostrich with its head in the sand which is not a natural thing. Dianne if your body temp is 137 as you say then I wouldn't worry about cutting out the article to read in 2040, if you make it past bedtime you are doing very well. Oh of course make up the details and then use them as facts like the other supporters of Global warming (or Ice Age Theory if we are talking about the last impending global disaster).
Mark Brown
I for one think that climate change doomsayers are wrong. The whole thing is a jacked up marketing job on our latest global threat scenario. 1960's nuclear holocaust and communism, 1970'2 oil crisis and starvation in Africa, 1980's no problems we made heaps of money, 1990's starvation (again) in Africa, Y2K, 2000's climate change and the end of the world. Get real, the world climate, not to mention tectonic plates and volcanoes have been in flux for millions of years. I would suggest that the doomsayers get a grip and enjoy the 70 odd years that they get to live on this planet rather than preaching doom and damnation. Life is too short.
Stuart
So 650,000 years ago CO2 levels were the same as they are now. I didn't realise we had a highly developed technological civilisation that long ago. Seeing as we are apparently the only species on the earth that can apparently affect these levels. Y2K, SARS, Mad Cow here we go again. As for "Climate Change" - well, it does. Someone mooted the idea of promoting Enzed as a Gold Coast type resort as a result (not in seriousness I realise), tell me the last time you remember a hot summer (2 weeks this year, 4 weeks last year), and last winter is one of the coldest I remember. Back in the 70's I remember every year we had water rationing, stupendous droughts, extreme fire risk every summer with fire bans. That certainly hasn't happened over a lot of the country for a loooong time. And to those who mention 2500 scientists with irrefutable "facts" - I would think there are a few more than 2500 scientists in the world. P.S. NZ apparently is an horrific contributor to greenhouse gases (Labour has always hated farmers and landowners - just think back to our "honourable" finance minister when he said he didn't believe in private property ownership). Anyway, at 0.06 per cent of the global population and sod-all heavy industry I think that is a little unfair, and ridiculous for us to start coughing up to change the world. Let's face it, most people in the world wouldn't even have a clue who or where we are.
Chris S
The other day I picked up a 10-year old copy of National Geographic. Coverstory: "El Nino"... Everyone remember that ? Well, flip through the article, it's being blamed for forest fires, storms, drought, starvation, locusts.... you name it. Sound like a familiar story ? The weather has always been bad. That's nature. Back then it was blamed on "El Nino" and given that global warming has supposedly be ramping up like crazy in the past 100 years, I am sure these thousands of so-called experts w
