KEY POINTS:
Auckland's train service is unreliable. In the latest incident, hundreds of Auckland rail passengers were late home after smoke forced the evacuation of the Britomart underground station.
>> Read the details
But buried deep in Helen Clark's speech from the throne was a hint that Auckland's long fight to persuade the Government to electrify the suburban rail network could be won.
This is the first time the Government has conceded electrification will take place.
What do you think?
Send us your views
>> Read the latest views on Auckland's public transport mess
>> Read Brian Rudman's piece about the PM's speech
Here is an earlier selection of your views:
Nigel Cartmell
I agree that Aucklands passenger railways should be electrified, eventually. What is more important, however, is that the current network is extended to where it is needed, runs frequently and is reliable.Diesel engines can be serviced regularly so they run cleanly; they can also run on bio-diesel (that New Zealand should be producing).
Arron
Chris H is dreaming if he thinks buses are the answer over trains. He has obviously never sat in one that takes over half an hour to get up Queen St. Trains have the advantage that they can not get stuck in traffic, build a decent train system and it will more than pay for itself.
Maurice R
I have lived 20 metres from the rail tracks for eight years and to me the solution is obvious. Rip up the tracks and use the land as a conduit for buses and emergency services to join at as many designated points as practicable to service the city. What I really enjoy is the new electronic bells installed last year that serve no purpose at all except to anoy the residents,and the full horn blast designed for crossings in Wyoming from the 50 year old, 100 tonne engines that could not stop if they had too for a pedestrian in difficulties at a crossing, carrying less than a bus load of people. Normally you can hear a mouse pass wind in the street between trains. I'd prefer the noise of efficient buses passing more frequently. Of course, there are ways to get things moving quicker on existing roads and save fuel - left turn on a red light if clear (done many places in the world). Intelligent traffic lights - have you ever sat against a red with nothing in sight for a minute and thought should I? No parking zones all day in Broadway or sections of Gt South Rd as some examples. I doubt whether anything will change in my lifetime.
Andrew Gibson
Should we electrify rail? Yes! Electric powered rail is technically far superior to diesel-electric power as we currently have. I am talking about performance and reliability, more than pollution concerns. Buses more efficient than trains? - depends on interpretation. Rail is proven to be 4-5 times more fuel efficient that any form of road transport. Rip up busways? Simply not an option. Aucklands rail lines currently carry huge volumes of freight, but because much travels at night, and so few of us actually interact with rail as such, most dont appreciate that fact. Public Transport is a no-no for NZ due to population size? I guess you mean rail - to suggest buses are also a no-no you would be seriously dreaming! If you're talking Thames - yeah agree, population doesnt support it. But look at Wellington where rail is used by millions each year, and the trains are over-crowded. Even in Auckland with clapped out unreliable diesels; a shortage of carriages; shonky signalling; failing infrastructure; ancient vandalised facilities; and the general shambles that the passenger rail system is, people have started using rail in their droves. It is up from around 300,000 20 years ago to 5 million-odd now, that indicates that if a proper investment was made, we actually would see a really significant shift to rail in Auckland. Every day I drive from central to North Shore and almost never use public-transport. But at the same time I strongly support public transport initiatives. The reason rail is currently costing so much is little investment was made from the 1960's onwards - the work being done now wouldnt have been needed all in one hit if funding at kept pace with other transport modes throughout. The higher cost of catch-up is distorting the comparative actual costs
Keith
1)Trains are dead! Use the rail corridors for a bus expressway. Buses could come and go at every level crossing, then travel on their usual circuit. 2)-Fire every urban planner and get the Councils out of zoning. The reason traffic can not move is because they have divided our city up into little areas of factories, offices and houses. Fifty years of failure and we still let them tell us how to develop our land. Let us decide what to do with our land and we will not need to travel so much!
David
It is high time that Government started walking the talk plus earned the money us taxpayers pay each and every year. Auckland' Public transport needs sorting out now, it may cost a lot to sort out now but the longer it is put off the more it is going to cost, it is time the Local and Central Government stopped acting like the ostrich with its head buried in the sand and ignoring the problem, it is not going to go away.
Rail needs to be put into the International Airport and this needs to be from all areas East, West, North, and South and while at it, do not forget the North Shore this is sadly lacking a rail service that would not take to much to put in place. Local Government will have to get off its ass and preform as well and not slow things down with the Resource Management Act like they usually do. As for the Britomart, this does need to be a trough station not a dead end as it is at present. Britomart could be tunneled through to Northcote to an other station that acts as a hub for the North shore which in turn links from Albany to the western line at Henderson via Hobsonville, Whenuapai and Massey for example, all lines being double tracked of course. The North shore line could be a double tracked Monorail going up to Orewa and forming a circle, including stations at Onewa Rd, Chelsea, Birkenhead, Glenfield Albany, Orewa, Browns bay, Takapuna, Devonport and Northcoat to complete the circle. If we build this now then it will save more in the long run in more ways than one. As for the Western line this needs to be double tracked out to Kuemu ASAP, what is being done at present is good but more fore thought and action needs to take place.
Of course we will need decent rolling stock to run on the system that is a given. Now lets see Helen Clark and her cronies front up with the money to do such a project.
Renee
I think that Aucklands Rail system should definitely be upgraded. My grandmother told me that years ago Auckland and the rest of the North Island put money towards electrification of the rail system. However when it was put in place, it went from Wellington to Hamilton then stopped. Why should Auckland be having to run noisy dirty diesel engine trains when the rest of the North Islands system is electrified? It would be great to be able to have a nice quiet journey home without earplugs in to prevent deafness. Aucklands rail system granted, has been improved, however they are still overcrowded when there is a breakdown (like on Wednesday morning. I had to get off the train at Middlemore, transfer onto the next train, which was so crowded that I had to get off at Glen Innes and wait for a further train to complete my trip to Auckland due to the staff having no option but to continue crowding people on) & terribly noisy which cant be doing much for the ears of the worke rs. What am I paying an extra "5 to 15 per cent" on my train ticket for? I would be happy to pay if it meant a quiet and safe journey every day.
Neve L
Once bitten, twice shy. I think we should all get used to the fact that the New Zealand government is not going to be thinking big again any time soon. The best you all can hope for is a half-pie attempt at motorway upgrades and, as Wellington is learning, some crusty electric locomotives dusted off from a museum.
Chris H
How about this for an idea. Ok we have spent a lot on the rail so far. Problem is: if one of the trains break down the entire line is disrupted. What if we dig up the train lines (let me finish) and make them compulsory bus lanes only. Even if a bus breaks down, the recovery time is a lot shorter than a train!! Use double decker buses? (Like the ones in London. With the Eden Park 60.000 deck chair grandstand looming we need quicker transport then just trains. Buses are more reliable and cheaper to run. Why not make them electric buses if you like? Train lines that are designated bus lanes. What a great idea? Its just a thought...
Avril
The train services are very much a part of Auckland and we cannot do without it. Services have improved over the last couple of years. The double tracking on the western line will definitely boost passenger numbers and frequency of trains. It can only get better from here!
Peter Dobson
In any modern city area with a population of over a million an effective electric surburban railway service is essential unless you want to see increasing road congestion,pollution and ultimately stagnation. Ancient diesels and cast off coaches from Britain are not the answer.
Andrew Atkin
Before we spend huge amounts of money on a train, we have to ask ourselves why we dont spend the same money on buses. The only reasonable argument for an Auckland application is that trains can run on electricity and they can therefore reduce carbon emissions (though buses can ultimately run on electricty too). The problem is if we electrify the trains then that will lead to an increase in carbon output, because non-carbon power plants are already operating at full capacity (coal will make up the difference for the train). The fact is that buses are much cheaper to run, achieve a greater catchment of people (not down just one corridor), loop the CBD and are in fact more energy-efficient. The problem is that the ARC is still desperately trying to justify its stupid $200m political publicity stunt called Britomart. Imagine how embarrassing it would be to do the right thing and shut down the train now. I welcome the reader to see the first page on my own website (its very simple!) to get this public transport thing in perspective. Http://www.woppit.com/atn
The best thing we can do for now is to stop wasting money on trains, and instead invest in congestion-charging for Aucklands main roads. I am afraid this is the only way that congestion can be controlled in Auckland today. Congestion-charging is great for buses I will add - it makes them particularily fast, cheaper to run and much more and energy-efficient.
John L
Public transport is a no no, for New Zealand. We have not got the population living in congregated areas and going to work in large numbers to large places of employment. I challenge any one to look up the cost of putting the underground system in London. New Zealand just could not afford it, The public would always be subsidising it. What the exponents do not put in to the equation of costing public transport is peoples time, in waiting for the system to come to them and as we all know, it does not always arrive.
Tony
Last nights smoke chaos at Britomart was an incredible example of how bad Aucklands public transport system is. As motorists caught in any major accident traffic gridlock know, officials can not cope with a rush hour glitch. There was little concrete information for rail commuters who were told to assemble near the coffee cart and await instructions that never came. People gave up waiting for the trains that never came and went and caught a bus. I have been trying to do my thing for the environment for the past six months. Again this morning the train was late and I had to explain to my boss why I was , as always, late. I have given up. I am going back to my car. The government talks about climate change but wont do something urgent and concrete about solving it by giving up a first world train service.
Edwin Thompson
Yes! No question about it! if we are gonna revamp a 3rd grade stadium we may as well bring our transport system to a world class stage . So we at least have something to show off to the world.
Andy
It is now time for our Prime Minister to demonstrate why she is the Leader, rather than leave us all guessing. She needs to take Auckland matters firmly in hand, herself personally. Electrify the rail lines, build a decent rail infrastructure, and build a large, multi-purpose Stadium on the waterfront. Exactly like what happened in Vancouver BC Canada during the late-70s/early 80's. Oh yeah, and declare that, at the end of all of this, there will be a World Exposition in Auckland -- just like what happened in Vancouver in 1986. It all came together in Vancouver, very quickly: what was needed was political leadership and courage. People in Vancouver screamed about it, at the time. In hindsight, it was the best thing that ever happened to the entire province of British Columbia -- not just Vancouver. Just like Helen, showing some leadership now, could provide Auckland with a real jewel in its crown. And, as a byproduct, Helen could go down in NZ History as a truly great Prime Minister.
Kiri
I think what annoyed me the most of all is not only having to be late but having to pay the fare to get home.
Jozef Goj
Pollution free or electrical generated producing pollution? Then you may be interested in producing zero pollution power. But first we fix the roads! If the road infrastructure cannot achieve free and uninterrupted vehicle flows no technology will help! The solution to traffic jams is not the size of the road but the ability of an intersection to work correctly. Traffic lights just stop traffic, roundabouts are for light traffic and freeway intersections are fundamentally flawed. They fail under heavy traffic as they also only work with light traffic. At www.ubtsc.com.au we have models of intersections that work. They allow all vehicles entering an intersection to exit that intersection left, right or ahead without stopping all day every day without fail. We also have a number of other transportation solutions that are environmentally zero polluting.None of this is worth anything if government at all levels dismisses it! Think outside the square for solutions and look for the positives of what this means.Imagine being able to cross town in peak hour traffic without stopping at a single intersection.
Bevan Jenkins
One can only hope that Michael Cullen will finally open his eyes and cheque book. Aucklands rail system should have been electrified years ago. Electric trains are faster, cleaner and absolutely necessary to run a decent city rail transit system. Bring it on ASAP!
Thomas
I gave up using the trains a few weeks ago. They are so often delayed, I ran out of excuses to the boss about why I was late. He did not believe me the trains could so often be running late. They are museum piece trains.
Angela C
If the Government is really serious about climate change, it needs to stop the waffle and jargon talk. You wont get people to change the fuel their car drives in a hurry or rush out to buy a hybrid. They will use public transport if it is reliable and cheap. The government needs to show it means business by making electrification of Aucklands rail system happen now.
Christopher Thompson
Helen Clarks announcement in her speech from the throne reported by Brian Rudman is the best news Auckland public transports had for a very long time. And if, as Rudman suggests, reform of the public transport procurement process is also implemented then its quite possible that within five or six years Auckland might finally achieve a slightly less cringe-making public transport system, one that might be vaguely comparable to, say, that in Sofia rather than the current one which, quite frankly, is embarrassingly incomparable. Now, if was possible to get a CBD tunnel thrown into the equation - thus creating a much needed loop service - we would then be halfway along the line to acquiring a rail network equal to that of Perth!
Simon
Should Aucklands Rail Network be Electrified? The answer is a resounding yes! And not only because it is a proposal which has been on the table so many times, since goodness knows when. With the building of Britomart, the double tracking of the Western Line and station and signalling upgrades, there will be little more that can be done to keep the upward trend of patronage continuing. Infact after doing all that work on the infrastructure it would be sad if Auckland was still lumped with diesels, which are more unreliable and inefficient, especially over a long period of operation. Auckland would not get the maximum benefit from the infrastructure improvements.
If patronage is to rise further, and have a chance to reach the future targets for rail ridership in Auckland and therefore take more people off the roads, then getting modern, efficient, reliable, speedier electrics is the only way to go. Also, only with electrification, is there the chance to increase Britomarts capacity by making it a through station with the building of a CBD tunnel. Thanks to the planners short sightedness, Britomart already has little allowance for extra trains. Unless it becomes a through station, new lines (for example to Onehunga, Mangere and the Airport) cannot be opened. Without future network extension, rail will not be able to reach new levels of patronage, once it has maximised passenger numbers on the current network.
So it is easy to see that everything to do with the future of rail in Auckland is in some way connected to electrification. There is only so far rail in Auckland can go without it. Lastly, even if we cant build a decent stadium, it would be nice to at least have a public transport network that even half resembles a decent network that other first world cities already have.
Helen
I cant believe there is a rail line to Onehunga that has been closed. It would save me hours sitting in the car and I would take the car off the road to help pollution and traffic jams. While they are at it, extend the line to the airport. It makes common sense.
A.J
After the traffic madness last weekend when we all went to events like the big ship coming in, a decent rail system is crucial.
