KEY POINTS:
Hundreds of popular products will be forced off shelves by a new body that will regulate medicines, international cosmetics heavyweight Johnson & Johnson claims.
"More than 1000 of New Zealanders' best-loved cosmetics, sunscreens and dietary supplements will be unavailable under the Government's move to create a joint Therapeutic Goods Agency with Australia," the company said last night.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Dr T J Sprott OBE MSc PhD FNZIC (Consulting Chemist)
This proposed legislation must be halted at all costs. It will not act to the benefit of the public; it is solely for the benefit of the international pharmaceutical industry. The legislation impinges on well-established freedoms, freedom of choice and freedom of healthcare. If passed it will react adversely to the already over-stretched health budget, to no benefit whatever in-so-far as the public of NZ is concerned. If brought into law, the TGA will result in a black market. People who know from experience the benefits of health and food supplements will not allow themselves to be deprived of goods vital to their health, and others will step into the field so as to supply those needs. The political parties not obligated to Labour should all unite to block this Bill. It could, and should, be done. And the Government should allow a free vote on the issue.
Winner (Kaikohe, Northland)
I'm glad to hear it really. Though I am surprised they would remove sunblock. That means people won't get sick, if they cannot use sunblock. Vitamin D from the sun does not get through sunblock. They need to get that vitamin D, especially if they have lowered the fat in their diet, because vitamin D is also in the fat part of the food, so they may not be getting it from there either. If they remove vitamins, it means people will not be able to have the toxicity levels from over using them. People will not be able to use vitamin E from them unless they have enough fat in their diet. People probably will get sick from the low fat, and low salt messages, as well as the cover up message, and so New Zealand probably won't have enough money to pay the PM's wage. The Government is going to reap!
Kevin O'Brien
Therapuetic remedies should be proven to work and be safe. I have seen some 'medicines' being prepared; what the user received depended on their birthdate! The same base sugar solution was used and healing properties for various ailments imparted by dialling up numbers in a machine to modify the bottle's contents. As the bottle sat on top of the machine there could only some sort of magical connection. I cite this because there too many preparations of no proven efficacy on sale. Previously the Health Dept would not allow advertising of false or unproven claims. Now, homepathic 'medicines' are being promoted in pharmacies! Homepathic preparations, scientifically, have none of the actual residual ingredient, as stated on the label left in them. They are purely magical. This is not medicine. Any attempt to have the purveyors of pills, potions, lotions, etc. prove they work, is most welcome.
Raj Subramanian
In a free economy, all forms of Government control should be avoided.
New Zealand and Australia have been used to encouraging monopolistic forces. Mostly Government agencies are appointed to do that. Wheat Corporations/Telecom/Bulk Medicine Purchasing organisations/Now Venture Capital/Film corporations,etc. are symbols of monopoly. That is why our tax rates are among the top in the OECD. When Govt. medicine procurement company is dispensed with and procurements are directly in open international market we will understand the price differentials. Labour governments normally encourage white elephants. If natural health products are replacing taditional medicines, doctors and health boards are shaken.I doubt whether patients support doctors or doctors support patients. In free economy, as consumers, patients are supposed support doctors. Natural health products serve to emphasise that fact. Consumers know best is the best way to govern our country. Neither of our political parties have any idea about this.
Tokoroa
I am elderly and suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The health service offer no treatment and are of no help, but I now get a lot of help from natural health products which will either disappear or become too expensive for me if this bill is passed.There are many older people like me who use natural health products, why make them pay so much more, probably more than they can afford.
Rajni Herman
Great news! I fully support this move. Food grade standards vitamins does not necessarily have to comply with consistency - there is no guarantees that what is advertised on the label is contained in each tablet. There can be irregularities in tablets, also they do not guarantee its bioavailability. It can be more harmful than useful for you. Also, for skincare products I would not go for any products containing parabans!(the cause some cancerous growth) I am all for pharmaceutical standards and well researched based products! It is about time Government took action!
Paula
Our family of 2 adults and 3 kids under the age of 12 dont get sick, apart from the odd tummy bug or sniffle. We live a healthy lifestyle which includes vitamins, minerals and herbal supplements.....which I believe pays an important part in our health, mental and physical. Once again the government is going to tell me how to live my life, how to treat my children and make money in the process. If I wanted to live like the Aussies then I would move to Australia!
Concerned community pharmacist
Legislation is needed in some aspects of therapeutic products however my concern is that many locally made natural therapeutic remedies will be so legislated that they will be unavailable to the New Zealand public. The reason for this is the cost involved not only with annual registration fees but the costs of carrying out clinical trials on substances. The main example I cite are herbal products, used for hundreds of years and not causing any ..or at the most very minimal side effects. Pharmaceutical products certainly don't have this safety track record. There are changes proposed to the availability of homoeopathic preparations and this is mainly because of the lack of understanding by this bureaucracy of the manufacture of these products. Such regulations are not applied in the United Kingdom which surely should be a benchmark. The Australian market has long been heavily influenced by the pharmaceutical industry, many New Zealand travellers return to New Zealand from Australia bewailing the unavoidability of many products in that country which they use to maintain their health. Surely the general public should be allowed to chose the therapy of their choice... 'snake-oils'notwithstanding. That phrase is designed to belittle alternative/ complementary therapies in general. We do not wish to become a 'nanny-state' joined at the hip to an over- legislated bureaucracy.
A-nonnie-mouse
Don't snakes go into beehives to steal the honey? We do not have snakes in New Zealand? Or do we? No one has died in New Zealand from using Natural products! But thousands have, from drugs! Where do the orders come from to take our freedoms away from us? We are headed back to the dark ages? I had a letter from someone in Australia who said the authorities came to her garden to up-lift a plant and it was not a drug one either! I hear they are going to push this legislation through anyhow! Not for the good of the people!
Nancy Langton
I think it is very unfortunate that the Minister (Annette King) chooses to hide behind a smokescreen of her own making by saying that this bill is all about protecting the safety of the public e.g. protecting them from vendors of snake oil and the like.All the people that I know who are involved in different forms of complementary therapies are in fact very happy for there to be some kind of regulation of the industry. These highly ethical people also want the best for their clients general health and also do not approve of charlatans purporting to have the latest health elixir. The nonsense is that we should have to come under the umbrella of the Australian regulatory board. The many costs of compliance to the Australian regulations will be prohibitive for many of the local New Zealand companies. Why cant we set up a local regulation board that meets the needs of all New Zealanders so that New Zealanders can continue to use the therapies and products which they have found to be personally beneficial but knowing that these services have been assessed by a reputable local body.
Dr Robert Anderson
This legislation is not only obnoxious but totally unnecessary. It is far more about trade issues than controlling "dangerous" supplements. It exemplifies perfectly the growing and ever insidious lack of democracy in our country. Annette King is quite wrong in her statement that " there had been a huge amount of misinformation peddled about the legislation, which was aimed at shutting out "snake-oil merchants". The public are only to well aware of the consequences of this Bill. To say it is "about public safety," is offensive. The number of deaths caused each year from prescription medicines is outrageous and she talks of "safety" New Zealand soils are dangerously deficient in the element selenium proven to be essential in the bodies fight against prostate and breast cancer. This is one of the first supplements to be axed to a non-therapeutic level by the TGA. A group far more draconian than the FDA, the whole issue is a disgrace.
Ken Mills
This government plan has been in the works for a long time but the general public have no idea of its full consequence in their ability to choose what they want in the general medical field, I am sure if it is passed then other tighter restrictions will follow.I have no faith or trust in the Australians thinking about N.Z interests. The cost of becoming a participant in this is astronomical for most small firms and will be only detrimental to New Zealanders.
Blenheim
I strongly object to the Health Law Change. This legislation will mean that if I wish to purchase any kind of non-mainstream product i.e. vitamin C, I will have to pay to go to my G.P. before I purchase it and as long as my G.P. gives me permission. This is ludicrous. This is a gross invasion of my basic right to make decisions about my own health and how best I look after it. This also gives major players a monopoly and will make them a lot of money.
Rhonwen Seager
There is good reason to doubt that Annette King's true agenda is the elimination of 'snake-oil merchants'. Have people actually died or suffered adverse consequences from natural remedies? Actually very few. Have people died or suffered adverse effects from pharmaceutical drugs? I do not have statistics for New Zealand but, according to Mercola.com, referring to the book 'Prescription for Disaster' by Gary Null, studies have estimated that prescription drugs kill approximately 100,000 Americans each year and 2.2 million people have in-hospital adverse reactions to prescription drugs each year. And these are the substances which are approved and accepted by the likes of Mrs King. There are definitely natural medicines which are safe, effective and currently available in New Zealand but cannot be obtained in Australia. I am currently using one such product myself, prescribed in Australia by a practitioner who told me I would have to obtain it from overseas. I do not wish to name this product as that may jeopardize its availability. Mrs King, I (and hundreds of thousands of other New Zealanders) do not want the 'protection' you purport to offer us. We are far safer making our own informed judgments.
Martina Tschirky
It is an absolutely ludicrous bill which will close down a lot of small businesses under the pretext of 'progress' and will make many well proven products disappear or far more expensive. Basically the big pharmaceutical companies are dictating and will swallow up good smaller brands and that way eliminate competition, resulting in price rises across the board. This debate strongly reminds me of the the GE issue when the Government lifted the moratorium in 2002 against almost 70 per cent of surveyed New Zealanders!!
Noeline Gannaway
As a user of natural health supplements, I oppose the Therapeutic Products and Medicines Bill while it includes complementary medicines. Health products would become more expensive or available only on a doctor's prescription. Small producers would go out of business in the face of high compliance costs.Regulation of complementary medicines can and should be achieved domestically.Most prescription drugs are to some extent dangerous, and I value the freedom as a consumer to choose proven natural health products.
Robyn Hembry
I strongly object to an off-shore entity ie The Australia (New Zealand) Therapeutics Products Authority,controlling our shores. This Agency will have the unprecedented police power of search and seizure.. The Managing Director (Australian) will have the power to enforce and police Rules and Orders in New Zealand, even though they will not have been voted on by our Parliament. The definition of what is a "therapeutic product" is vague and it would be left to the Managing Director to decide, on a case by case basis. This is a direct undermining of the sovereignty of our Parliament.The effect this will have on our own "small business" industry could be catastrophic . ie the intention to legislate by adding additional compliance costs. It is quite extraordinary that as yet the bill has not been introduced into Australia, should we pass legislation here in NZ, the Australian Parliament will have the oportunity to make changes in their favour, which could very well be detrimental to NZ, especially as it will be set up under Australian Legislation. What about our Waitangi Treaty!
Bella (Auckland)
The Natural Health Industry of NZ who are opposed to this Bill do support sensible regulation - but regulation with NZ rules and within a local regulatory body. The TGA in Australia (similar to the proposed Bill here) has caused many small to medium sized businesses to shut down and consumer choice to be limited. This Bill is not about health, it is about control. Yes, we all like to know what studies and research has been done to support claims made about products - and many natural health products are being researched now. But realise this: you cannot patent a vitamin or mineral. This means, that if someone does give money for research for a specific product, that information can be used by other companies to develop their own product. So there isn't much profit or gain being made. Pharmaceutical drug studies and drugs are a big business industry. I believe we should be focussing on supporting preventive health care measures (with the use of education, diet and supplements if needed) to ensure there is less burden on our already ailing healthcare system, in the future. Annette King is the only one peddling Snake oil. I say, don't buy into it.
Rose
This is yet another example of our freedom of choice being removed. As a health professional I totally agree that there needs to be a degree of regulation for any products we are exposed to including health supplements and cosmetics etc, however this can be carried out quite adequately from within New Zealand. We do not need Australia or any other country dictating to us what is or is not acceptable to use and we certainly don't need our natural health products being categorised as 'pharmaceuticals' and becoming increasingly monopolised by large overseas conglomerates.
Barron Braden
The TGA is the worst thing of recent times that the Govt is attempting to thrust on to the NZ population when the majority oppose it. This new agency only serves big Pharmaceutical company interests!
Michelle (Lower Hutt)
This proposal is ridiculous! Heaps of natural therapies will be banned for no good reason. We wont have much of a clue what the rules are since the agency setting the rules will be offshore! It will be expensive to get anything added to the list of allowed herbs and this will kill many small businesses and stop people from taking natural therapies, making them more reliant on pharmeceutical companies and doctors. It takes away our (consumers) choice. I'm proud of you guys for giving this issue some media coverage. I was starting to wonder if the anti-smacking bill was a media trap designed to cover up the therapeutic products & medicines bill so that nobody noticed it sneak into law!?!
Stan Chun (Newlands, Wellington)
There should be no political interference when it comes to personal choice of alternative medicine. Most people who try alternatives do so because of the ineffectiveness or side effects of what has been prescribed. There is nothing wrong with modern medicine either with all its faults because there is nothing perfect in this world. However, both eastern and western systems are worlds apart not to mention all the others so it should be up to the individual to seek out what works well for him as a God given right, and not by a bunch of politicians for whatever purpose they are trying to gain.
Tane'a
Who gives the Government the right to tell us what products we should use. I use whatever I feel is right for my skin. I know how to read so I have an informed enough knowledge of whats in them! I think our govt just is trying to turn us into stereotype robots like them. Or maybe we are going to all be called Australians soon. Next they will be telling us what undies to wear, or how to clean our ears!!But this is the Govtment lots of New Zealanders chose. Hang on, are we Kwauzzis or....
Bruce (Auckland)
Annette King says there is a lot of misleading information "out there" about the Therapeutic Products & Medicines Bill, (much of which is the actually the truth Annette), but it is easy for the MOH to be dismissive with one short comment, when there is an enormous amount of factual information out there about this Bill which Annette King and the Labour Govt would prefer you didn't know about and are hoping like heck that with enough "bluff" this Bill can pass into law. Over our dead bodies Minister! All about "public safety" is it Annette King, well if that is the case then you really need to take a very hard look at the disturbing information that circulates about the horrendous numbers of the deceased public due to "approved" medical procedures (of which only 15 per cent is actually evidenced based, ref: Journal American Medical Association!). This Bill is really about the easy way out for the Labour Govt & Medsafe as part of our Ministry of "Health", (or is it the ministry of illness sickness and disease!!!), it is about C E R and it takes the heat of the Govt, so they can hand this whole process over with our sovereignty to the Australians, shafting ourselves to boot! Does the Minister of "Health" realise that if most health conscious Kiwis didn't take dietary supplements to prevent disease, there would be an even greater burden on the "Health" systems in NZ! This Bill will probably have this exact affect as when certain products are no longer available and people can not afford the costs of alternative supplements due to new compliance costs, then up goes the "Health" Costs for NZ Taxpayers. This Bill was twice sent back to the Health Select Committee and twice they recommended not to go with Australia, but develop our own legislation. Never mind that solid recommendations from the public submissions to the Health Select Com., our MOH Annette King goes ahead anyway and signs a Provisional Treaty with her Australian counterpart as if this was a "done deal", no way! This time last year all the other political parties were also adamantly and vehemently opposed to this Bill, but a "nice little behind the parliamentary scenes deal" was spun to con two of these parties to renege, NZ First & United Future (as they were then!!!). Their reason for the change of mind was that the new Bill was far removed from the originally proposed legislation, they fell easy prey to the "spin merchants"!If this is a new Bill then surely it ought to go back to the Health Select Com for new public submissions as is the "Democratic" process in NZ. However, in the Govt's "wisdom" to avoid the Health Select Com., they decided to send to the Govt Aministration Select Com., because they didn't have enough support in the Health Select Com.! Once again the public get shafted by these coniving politicians! So life goes on in the Democratic Dictatorship of the "Banana Republic" of NZ.
Maurice Mckeown
Surely the only looser will be Air New Zealand. People won't have to buy a ticket to Australia; we will all be part of it right here in NZ.
If this loonie legislation goes through I bet in 20 years we will all be singing "Advance Australia Fair?".
Kathy Fray (Author, North Auckland)
Using allopathic (modern pharmaceutical) medicine's limited scientific knowledge to endorse or dispute ancient holistic medicine's suitability and effectiveness, is as logical as using a dogs' obedience obstacle course to measure the usefulness and intelligence of cats! Presently, all current medical research, drug handbooks and Medsafe's data-sheets, consistently describe many pharmaceutical drugs' "Actions" as being "unknown" – that is, our laboratories are unable to fully explain drugs' basic pharmacokinetics (what the body does to the drug) and pharmacodynamics (what the drug does to the body). With pharmacology surreptitiously admitting they have no idea how numerous commonly prescribed medicines work, they are hardly the definitive authority as to how and why nature-made chemicals create the molecular biotransformational reactions that they do.Much of human microbiology and most of quantum physics are still unknowns – and these are the two arenas where CAMs (complementary and alternative medicines) function. To remove the free-will of choosing how we heal ourselves, forces our government to become an autocratic despotic tyrannical dictatorship. God defend NZ from that!
Dotparsons
Annette King is ignorant and has been proven to be one many times. Wonder who and what is pressing her buttons on this?Part of the present Government to rule our lives. Democracy? Haha don't kid yourself it doesn't exist in NZ.
Rozellia (Wellington)
This must not happen . This is in direct contravention of Civil Rights and Human Rights We are living in a Neo Fascist State and it must stop now.
Richard
As a new immigrant to NZ I'm really surprised with NZ's fixation that everything Australian must be good and better. And what is with this tendency to over-regulate? Let the market decide - we are adults and have the power of choice. Governments duty is to ensure products are safe and contain the ingredients it claims. If the product is useless people will stop buying it. I'd say that attention should rather be focused on the tobacco and alcohol industry, or is it a case of too much revenue is earned in the form of taxes and duties?
Mr J Carapiet
The proposals are draconian and effectively push the agenda of big pharmaceutical companies who see alternatives as "market competitors". The TGA will ignore the reality that serious harm or death from supplements /complimentary medicine are negligible, whilst death from side-effects of "regulated medicines", or through mis-use and mistakes is a major problem. The nonsense coming from the mouth of the Minister are weazle words. Annette King should resign, having signed a treaty without Parliamentary oversight, and which sells out New Zealand and New Zealanders .
Neil (Papamoa)
The therapeutic products & medicines bill would hand authority to an off-shore authority set up under Australia law and staffed mainly by Australians. We would have no say in what supplements or natural health products we can buy in New Zealand. Our choices for health would not be protected. Why is the government seeking to restrict our access to natural health products which keep people healthy with out the side effects of drugs? The use of natural products keeps people out hospitals and reduces the excessive national cost of providing health services.
Karen van Noppen
A few hundred years back, John Locke realised that humans had four basic rights - life, health, freedom and possessions. It seems that in this country we are beginning to loose all of these. It is absurd for Annette King to make this debate about safety, when the safety record of supplements in this country is excellent. Literally thousands of New Zealanders have died from registered and prescribed pharmaceutical products in the last 10 - 15 years. How does that compare to the 300 adverse reactions (not deaths)mentioned in today's Herald. Wake up Annette King and Helen Clark. Thinking citizens have had a guts full of your unnecessary interference in our lives.
Larraine (Papamoa)
The legislation would ban the supplements I take to stay healthy. It does not make sense with spiraling health costs out of control one would think that any government would encourage the natural health products and supplements industry which focuses on preventative health. natural health products and supplements do not have negative side effects like drugs which should only be used as a last resort. look at the effect of taking anti depressants which suppress the problem rather than tackle it.
Rodney
As a cancer survivor I am deeply concerned about the proposed changes. While not a large user myself there is products I do use such as whole food supplements. So as we work with and help not just very sick people I state again I am very concerned. Thank you for allowing me to voice my concern.
Thrash Cardiom
I completely fail to understand the argument that because some so called medicine is natural or has been around for centuries it must be good for you. People have believed all sorts of strange things about medicines over the years. It doesn't make them right. Does ground up rhino horn really improve your sex life? It's an idea that has been around for centuries and is certainly natural but is it true? Let's kill a few more rhino and find out.
Peter Archer
As the owner-operator of a small natural health business, I wish to say that if this proposed agency was in effect now, our business would not exist. We got to a position of success by hard work and much sacrifice, on the proverbial shoe-string budget. If this proposed agency had been in force, we could not have even got started. These proposed regulations will totally stifle all innovation within the natural health industry in NZ. In our NZ folklore, we make much of the "number eight fencing wire innovators", people who start out with an inspired idea, zero capital, and determination. Our business is an example of such a success story within the natural health industry. This new system of regulation, if enacted, will be the death-knell of all such stories within this industry, as the compliance fees will be too high. Minister King makes much of the so-called "snake-oil merchants". As someone with long experience in this industry, I have yet to see any such person. There may be a few around somewhere, but existing laws are sufficient to deal with them. Why throw out the baby with the bath-water, just to supposedly "fix" a problem that is so minor that it is insignificant?
Lisa Ross
I'm all for products being off the market that contain parabens and other ingredients that have been shown to cause cancer but I do not think it's fair that a lot of safe health products will be off the market because the people who make them can't afford the huge amount to have them "regulated."
Ian (Parnell)
This government has really lost the plot as to what is good for most of us normal NZ ers. Already taking excessive taxes and churning millions of taxpayer funded dollars to more wealthy people than ever before, our lawbreaking, feminist, politically correct leaders are following the well trodden path of those such as Mussolini and other fascist leaders who take no heed of the good of the community but blindly pursue their own path of socialistic ideals and proceeding to their own self destruction. This current proposed legislation idiocy intending to pacify the well funded pharmaceutical companies' drive to destroy their natural health competition is political stupidity in the extreme and government does not see that it will seriously harm every New Zealand resident - these wise politicians of our choosing are not able to see it. The sooner this gang of ignorant incompetents are thrown out the better off this country will be and this legislation proposal must be defeated at all costs.
John MacGillivray
Isn't it interesting that Annette King can keep a straight face whilst telling the public of New Zealand that this legislation is in the interest of safety. Why does she not take a closer look at the deaths in this country occurring due overprescription of painkilling medications ie, paracetemol and aspirin. While she is at it, maybe she can tell us how many New Zealanders have died due to mainstream dietary supplements eg vitamins/minerals/herbal preparations. To the best of my knowledge, that figure stands at about 4 people over the past 16 years, and the direct association of those deaths being due to the supplements has not been proven!
Heather Young (Herb Federation of New Zealand)
The Herb Federation of New Zealand, Inc. represents 24 local herb societies throughout the country, together with about 130 individual members. Collectively we represent about 700 individuals. We are opposed to the Bill for the following reasons:
1. We are concerned that the proposed regulatory system will ignore the long-standing use of herbs by individuals in maintaining an overall state of wellness for themselves and their families.2. The system makes no distinction between self-medication and practitioner only medicine, and no provision for the practice of clinical herbal treatments by qualified practitioners 3. The cost of compliance will make increase the cost of herbal products and/or limit their availability. 4. The Bill fails to recognize the indigenous herbal resources that are unique to New Zealand.5. We have not seen a cogently argued statement that can justify relinquishing a part of our national sovereignty.
Matthew (Glenfield)
You should read the way that the Australian Therapeutic Goods Agency obliterated Pan Pharmaceuticals just because one of its products was faulty. Frightening stuff. The TGA is in cahoots with Codex and the pharmaceutical companies are behind Howard's push to bring Big Health Brother over here. Words cannot describe my disgust at this government that it is willing to inflict such a monstrosity on us. It shows how little they care for us. I've had a gutsful of this government riding roughshod over us. Roll on elections. I can't wait to get rid of this arrogant, uncaring government.
Scott Dalziell
I am opposed to this as it adds yet another restriction that takes away the ability and the responsibility to make our own decisions concerning health. I also think this adds to the control of individual choice by business interests(ie the drug companies in this case).
Dave Woodward
My first concern is that the treaty, once set up, will be very difficult, if not impossible to reverse. My second is that the number of injuries, illnesses, or deaths attributable to unregulated manufacture, sale and use of natural supplements in the last 100 years is somewhat less than that attributable to alcohol in any couple of days. The sole benefit of this unnecessary regulation will be to large (non-New Zealand)companies able to afford the compliance costs, and then in a protected position to pass costs on to New Zealanders. My third concern is that to obtain dosages beyond minimal size, it is likely that a prescription will be required for supplements, e.g. 500mg or 1000 mg tablets of Vitamin C, that we now have unrestricted access to and use without damaging ourselves. Finally, experience with the present operation of the proposed regulatory system in
