KEY POINTS:
Here are earlier views:
Phillip Wister
I am an American. I am a Patriot. I applaud anyone in the world that has a viewpoint on this tragedy. I chastise anyone that attacks anyone else's free opinion given freely. We Americans are a violent people. We cannot get around that fact whatever the cause or history behind it. That is why I like the comments of "you would be speaking Japanese" if it were not for us. Nonsense. Gun control has been a problem since we stopped needing to hunt for our dinner(which was not that long ago in our cultural memory). The problem with guns is particularly handguns. The only thing handguns are used for is to kill other human beings, period. If anyone tells you different, they are lying. Americans now possess more handguns per person than most all the industrialized countries of the world put together. This brings up the old adage; if you got it, you are going to use it. The world should be making this same argument about the 1000's of nuclear missiles that Americans still have on a hair trigger. We won the cold war so why do we need these also? One can only come to the conclusion that we are paranoid and live in fear all the time, That's why we need all those hand guns and nuclear missiles at the ready. It really is no wonder that the rest of the world is so concerned, which comes out clearly in all the negative messages about these kinds of incidents. We have to realize that our foreign policy since WWII led by the Military and culminating in the American debacle in Iraq is finally bearing fruit; the scorn of the people of the rest of the world. If your value freedom of speech, then you must listen to what others have to say.myspace.blog/guderian123
disasterpresident.blogspot.com
Don
My family has live in America for the past 378 years. We had to fight against savage natives, the French, the Spanish and the English Crown for our freedom and our survival. In 1776 we determined that we would never again allow a tyrant, either foreign or domestic, to disarm us. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms, that we gave to ourselves, serves as a constant reminder to those in power that the American people can take power back by force of Arms if necessary. I understand that you do not understand why we cherish this freedom, since native Kiwis still live in an occupied country, subjugated to a foreign monarch. Imagine my shock when I saw the amount of venom spewing out of so many ignorant Kiwi mouths. Never have I ever heard one bad word about New Zealand from a single one of my 300+ Million fellow Americans. And now I discover that you people are not very nice at all. One last comment: The incident at Virginia Tech was planned and committed by a mentally ill young man. His ethnicity, religion, citizenship nor the weapon he chose are the cause of the murders and it is foolish to focus on those things, or on American society as a whole, in the search for blame. Rather, you might look toward the anti-depressant drugs that he reportedly was on, to explain his psychotic, depressive and psychopathic behaviors, and look around you. From several of the comments I've read here, many of you share his same state of mind.
Jerry
So NZ calls the US a "sick society"...that is very interesting. The US is a world leading country in many things from sport, art, business, science, education etc. NZ leads the world in these statistics: teenage suicide rate, teenage pregnancy rate, domestic violence rate, depression (use of anti-depressants), mental disorder/disease rate/ percentage of population. Instead of obssessing about the imagined problems of America (when many kiwis on the North Island haven't even visited the South Island!) The NZ media is censored and cannot report on how troubled NZ society is (eg teenage suicides are not reported). It's time Kiwis faced the reality about NZ - one of the most PC and deeply troubled societies in the world.
Kiwi in Iowa
I am a Kiwi living in Iowa. It never ceases to amaze me that I can go to Walmart, the biggest seller of guns in America, and buy myself a gun. Imagine being able to go to The Warehouse and purchase a semi-automatic Glock pistol and a bucket of ammo.
Scott
I am an American that has been living in Auckland 17 years. I love this country a lot and have been raising 2 kids here. It really saddens me that some people either through there own ignorance or whatever make such brash comments like" they (Americans) get what they deserve!" No one deserves to be murdered in cold blood. The murderer acted alone. He was not forced. He was a coward! There is no way to stop these things from happening. I don't care where you live, if you want a gun bad enough you can find one.In the 17 years of living here I have seen some atrocious murders here. Does it dim my opinion of NZ? No it doesn't. It makes me realise that America is not alone. Who is to blame? The same people who voted for Legalising prostitution, same sex marriage. The same people that don't know there neighbours or know where there kids are. The people who send there kids to daycare 8 hours a day. The people who are teaching us to 'spot' a bully, but not teaching us not to be bullies. Its people in such a rush to get across town to work that they arrive with such rage it ruins there whole day. Its me,its you. Society in general has really put the family on the back burner. Where is the love? I am afraid that Global Warming is more interesting. Lets teach our kids about that four letter word and maybe we can avoid these tragic events again.
JamesP
It is truly amazing how sensitive Americans are to criticism. They take every negative comment about their country and twist it into a raging vindictiveness. They seem so easily angered, makes it easy to see why there is so much shooting there.If Americans think the rest of the world is irrelevant, why do they get so upset when the rest of the world criticizes them? Americans can dish out all the criticism to others that they want but they can't take it at all. If Americans are so sensitive to what other people say, then they should stop holding themselves out to the world as God's greatest gift to mankind. They would do well to mind their own business once in a while too. And just for the record, WWII, WWI, the American Revolution, and the Middle Ages are actually over. It's also really sad to see how the rest of the world laps up American movies and culture as if they were thirsty animals wandering upon a waterhole in the desert. Stop blaming corporations, globalization or governments and just don't buy it.
Simon
As a New Zealand student at a University in Texas, I feel I have had a good view of American people and their culture. Firstly it is horrible that such a tragedy has occurred, and my sympathy goes to VT students and others effected by the situation. Secondly, it disugust me the ignorance shown by people back home in New Zealand. Im a very proud Kiwi, but we as a society often bemoan the ignorance of others cultures, without realising the ignorance of our ownselves at times. Do not stereotype all Americans to be 'gun toting cowboys' as this is certainly not correct. They are very generous people and well educated people. With a country as large as it is, of course tragedies like this will happen. Certainly as a country our own problems would be magnified by 100 plus with a population that size. But on the contrary, the gun laws here do need tightening (I can definitely say I have a lot easier access to guns here than home) making shootings become less frequent. This is something that will take a long battle for the society here as the constitution (like out treaty) is the document which the country was founded upon. But please do not stereotype so much, realise this is a tragedy caused by one person, not all American people.
Tim Edwards
Hello, After reading many of the views expressed here I had to write in again, first off I am an American through and through, I know what the Constitution says and means, it is the foundation of this great and mighty country, this country is the light of this world for a reason, that is the freedoms and guarantees afforded us by that Constitution and the blood given to maintain it, if you start denying freedoms and what the constitution says then the foundation will crumble and we will fall as a nation, and regarding the Ten Commandments, you know the ones given to all mankind Thousands of years ago by our Creator, believe in him or not he is still "Our" creator, and believe me 2 seconds into eternity you will know that, are the ten greatest things society can do for each other, tell me what is wrong with not stealing, cheating on your spouse, lieing to each other, If you love this country then get behind each other and "our" constitution and make it a better place, that includes "our" right to keep and bear arms, which means self protection for yourselves and family from harm from criminals, and government, look at the history of this nation and that of other nations, tyranny has been, is, and will always be somewhere lurking for a new place to grow. If you don't like America then get the hell out and stay out, if you are from another country don't buy, sell, watch, or have anything to do with us, May God look after the victims and families of this horrible tragedy and may GOD bless the United States of America.
Grant
Of course the lunatic US gun laws play a major role in so many tragic deaths there. Incidents like this can & do happen anywhere but not with anything like the frequency that they do in the US. Do the math guys - the US population is six times that of the UK, but deaths from guns in the US are 40 times those in the UK. The US is a wonderful country that has done many good things for the world (present administration excepted) but lets face it, unless you can adopt a gun control policy more akin to other civilised countries it is sadly likely that there will be many more events like this one.
Dennis Castanares
As a literate Amwerican, and one disgusted by our gun-worshiping fetish, I find it embarrassing to see my compatriots writing these jingoist rants with poor grammar and multiple misspellings, excoriating other people in more sensible nations for just criticism of our national fetish. We are presently in a paroxysm of self-pity over the senseless massacre of 32 of our citizens, while as a result of our foolish and arrogant policy, more than 200 innocent Iraqis died just today. Perspective is notably lacking in the American media these days.
Jo
In the wake of the Virginia Tech massacre the rednecks crawl out of the woodworks to disown the shooter by labelling him an Asian, despite him living in the US for most of his life. It's not enough to label him as a disturbed individual - he was Asian, now there's a helpful tidbit of information. By this same logic we should also label the victims by their ethicities as well, but this would diminish the significance of American deaths as there was at least a Jew, Indian and Indonesian in the mix. People would rather discuss the look of the killer than debate the more appropriate issue of gun control and America's fanatic obsession with the right to bear arms and confused logic that more guns equals a safer society. How is it helpful to make such a big deal about the shooter being South Korean? It will only serve to victimise other South Koreans in the US who are all tainted by the association with the killer and will no doubt suffer backlash from "real" Americans.
Scott
What's to blame? The usual, mental defective criminals who would not or could not get the help they needed either from outside or inside themselves to deal with real or perceived shortcomings.
Kelly from America
The editorial about the problems with American gun violence raises fair points. I'm a 53 year-old American. My mother was Australian and came to the US after WWII. I own a two rifles and a handgun. I hunt big game like deer and elk. I eat what I kill. And I've travelled and lived and worked in New Zealand.The editorial says, " . . . Americans may rethink their constitutional right to bear arms, but it seems unlikely." I think that is too broad of a stroke, although it is correct. We may rethink the regulation of guns. But it is not an all-or-nothing proposition.Our murder rate is about the planetary average. But New Zealand's is six to 10 times less per 100,000 than ours. And South Africa's is about like ours. Brazil's is worse. Regarding handguns: People in New Zealand hunt. But hunters in New Zealand don't fear human-eating predators. Here in the US, in some parts of the country, large cats and large bears can kill us while hunting. There is a need for handguns for such hunters. I personally have been in the forest late at night cutting up an elk on watch for bears and cougars that would be attracted by the scent of the kill. I had red pepper spray. The other three in my group each had handguns. This is sensible. But, aside from a few hunters fearing for their lives from cougars and bears, handguns are needed by no one but the police and military. To defend one's home from invasion (since many American burglars have guns, unlike most burglars in New Zealand) can be easily accomplished with a shotgun, small-caliber rifle or any hunting rifle. To have guns to oppose governmental tyranny, a rifle is more effective than a handgun. If some of our states would ban handguns (with rare exceptions for hunters, police and some collectors); eliminate large clips and semi-auto rifles, assault rifles; and allow inspections (like they do in many countries) of houses that do possess guns to see if they are stored safely, perhaps our huge murder rate would drop significantly in those states. After all, in the US, game wardens can inspect houses suspected of holding stolen or illegally taken game meat. We could do the same with universal registration of guns. New Zealand, Australia, the UK, Canada, Germany, Japan and many other countries have very low rates of murder compared to the US. It is hard, as one of my Kiwi friends told me, to do a drive-by knifing.
As an American I believe our policies can benefit greatly from a best-practices analysis of nations, such as New Zealand, that have a much better record when it comes to domestic murder rate. To explain the expressions of anger against Americans and the gun policies we tolerate and indeed legislate, there are two justified reasons I think: Our arrogance as a large and militarily powerful nation often prevents us from learning from countries with more successful policies. This makes no sense to Kiwis who know their policies are working for them. The same is true when it comes to matters of state violence against people where New Zealand's record is very good. People are upset when our government kills so many innocents such as those in Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia recently. In fact, the US government has killed many millions of innocents since WWII--over two million in Vietnam and approaching one million in Iraq. How many has New Zealand killed in the same period? Very few, to New Zealand's credit.
Tara from Boston
I don't think most people in the US have actually read their constitution. If they did they would find that the second amendment doesn't read "right to bear arms". The exact text reads "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." When the constitution was written there was no organized military, only minutemen. The minutemen were farmers, shop keepers, carpenters, ect who took up arms in defence of America. The sentence also mentions a well regulated militia so it's doubtful that the writers intended for every person to be allowed to own a gun.I'm not doing to debate what happened in Virginia. that is a terrible tragedy and my heart aches for the victims and their families. This sort of thing should not happen ever. It's not easy to predict what drove the shooter to his actions. It is clear that had a thorough background check been done, his records of mental illness and illegal alien status would have likely prevented him from purchasing the weapons.America's gun legislation desperately needs to be rethought. Unfortunately, we live in a democracy. I say unfortunately because the American people are almost equally divided on the issue of gun reform. This is unsteady ground for politicians and it's unlikely this issue will be mentioned in any elections.
Liaminh
The shooter was "mentally unstable" and even had a "detention order" issued against him. But because there was nothing the authority could do to force him to remain under psychiatric care forever, eventually he was able to carry out his deranged and deadly delusions. This is a recurring problem in the US, be it a mother drowning her children in a bathtub or a young man going on a shooting rampage. Of course, easy access to firearms create the potential for horrific tragedies such as VT; however, I believe the deeper issue is with the American healthcare system and how it deals (or not) with mentally ill individuals.
Derek Nalecki
Some people just have no shame. They will use a horrible tragedy to advance their, uhm, peculiar politics, knowing that in the light of day, those are seen as nonsensical. And so it is with gun-control crowd. There is no amount of gun control that could've prevented a deranged, determined lunatic from acquiring the guns. On the other hand Virginia Tech had a very strict gun control policy in place. One comparable to those of New Zealand or Australia. Law abiding people - students, teachers - were told guns were not allowed and they... well, abided by the law, and had no guns. This makes sane people wonder; what if there was no gun control policy at VT; what if one of the law abiding people had a gun; and instead of hiding under a desk praying not to be shot...acted? What if...?
Avery
I think what happened at Virginia tech is a tragedy, but at the same time I find myself thinking, this is happening in Irag and the middle east on a weekly basis! and people seem to be so shocked about the Virginia tech situation, which they should be but it just shows how numb we have become to the issues in the middle east.
Thom
There is a large amount of anti-American invective on here, and a fair amount of outraged rebuttal from Americans. I personally think it unnecessary for Kiwis (and anyone else outside America for that matter) to comment on an issue that does not directly affect the rest of the world (as the war on Iraq has for example). The statistics on violent gun crime and the number of school shootings in America speak for themselves. Americans are perfectly entitled to their right to bear arms - but clearly there are going to be consequences as a result of that right. Leave them to it - unfortunate as it is, it does not concern us.Perhaps our American cousins also need assuaging that the anti-Americanism voiced on this page is more a result of their current Administration's foreign policy (which has had a destructive effect on the rest of the world), rather than people taking umbrage with the American people as a whole.
Claudine Lundgren
As a retired teacher and close friend of the Kinkels who were murdered by their son of the Thurston shooting, I can tell you that it is not about the guns. It is about the medicine. It is about the major drug companies who are working in tandem with politicians and the FDA to make Americans sick. Just look at the TV ads. Students drink soda pop all day and wonder why they can't pay attention in class, and get labeled with ADD, then take drugs to control that, then go off their drugs and shoot people. The mafia didn't go away, they just got bigger and fly under a different name at the expense of everyone. They are filthy rich and powerful across the entire planet. Remember, it's always about the money.
Luke
This incident is probably a result of one persons bad treatment (or bad experiences in the past) that led to him being mentally unstable, Maybe it could have been stopped if he had been treated better by others. It could have happened anywhere in the world. (And has in the past) Wouldn't it be great if only the police and the military had guns? In this day and age there isn't really a need to hunt for food using guns and anyone who kills stuff for fun "sport" maybe shouldn't have a gun. I think handguns shouldn't be available for the public; they are too easy to hide and serve no real purpose when hunting. Do you think this guy could have hung about a campus unnoticed for 2 hours if he was carrying a shotgun or rifle?
St. Lou
To all you hateful Kiwis: There are hateful and violent people in every walk of life, those are the facts. I am sorry you are either unaware and ignorant or afraid to admit that. Blame the gun if you want, but I can guarantee you that murder and violence will not go away. It is in the hearts of man that violence exists. Some facts for you: in 2000, 10,800 murders by guns were committed in the US 2002 42,800 deaths by motor vehicle, any kind of occurrence including alcohol. No more cars for you !approx 16,600 were the result of alcohol. Let's ban the use of alcohol, right? in 2002 485,000 deaths were attributed to tobacco use. in one year, folks. Bad things happen to good people. Always have, always will. I find it funny that the world embraces everything America and then gives a slap in the face when something goes bad. When something happens bad to them or their country, they come whining to America "oh save us oh save us". Always has. Always will. If America is so awful, why are so many Mexicans are risking so much to come across the border? Why is the world sending it's students here to learn? Why all the immigration? Either the world is jealous of America or the rest of the world is stupid for trying to become American, period. You can't hide from the facts, Kiwis.
Cathy
No-one is to blame. The person was obviously mentally disturbed and ell through the cracks in the system. Instead of slamming each others countries cultural differences you should take a moment to imagine how these poor innocent kids went through hell and for their parents who will live in hell for a long time to come. SO hug your family and especially your teenagers. They need to know you are there for them.
FYI: Im a kiwi who lives in the US and the parents of an 18 year old son. We do not own guns nor do friends or family. We go about our daily lives just the same as we did in NZ without guns blazing around us.
Jason
I think this latest shooting in the USA is, like the others before it, very tragic. Unfortunately, we once again have people blaming loose or poor gun control laws for this terrible and senseless act. Looking at the crime stats for the USA it becomes apparent that the states with the strictest gun control laws (including DC, where gun ownership is completely banned) have the highest rates of violent crime then those in States with less strict gun control laws and therefore a higher rate of legal, private gun ownership, in an article in The Herald Online, there was a person from Virginia who is now in NZ and is a farmer here, he claimed that Virginia is saturated with guns, yet on the next line he goes on to say that it is a place where people can leave the keys in their cars and their houses unlocked. If you take a closer look, you'll find this is more so the case in most states with looser or less strict gun control laws, then in the states with the more strict gun control laws, therefore, as is being hammered out from most media outlets around the world, loose or less strict gun laws can hardly be the cause of high crime rates, on the contrary, more legally owned guns, seems to indicate less crime. Therefore, as stated above, lax gun control laws cannot be to blame for this tragic event, this person was hell bent on killing is classmates, murder is already illegal and he never thought twice about breaking the already existing laws against shooting people, murdering people and ironically, the "No guns on campus" laws, what on earth makes people think that tighter gun control laws would have made a difference escapes me, he would have just broken any more laws just as he did the existing laws. The only gun law to blame for this tragedy, if any laws are to blame, it is the law that prevented, legally armed and trained law abiding citizens from carrying a gun for self defence, of the 32 people killed, over half would have been able to legally carry a firearm for self defence, had that been the case, the gunman, could have been stopped before more then three or four victims were taken, not after 32 and him ending it himself.
But as stated above, this is a tragic and terrible event, not a time for blame or finger pointing, but a time for those who have been affected by this heinous tragedy to mourn and a time for the rest of us to count our blessings and hug our loved ones.
Steve Hart
Whilst the shooting in Virginia was a tragedy for the individuals, their friends & families in reality in the good old US of A its a sad fact of life. On average about 82 people die a day from gunshot wounds in the USA. The gun lobby has powerful allies in the bush government & arms profits soar during times of war, unrest & in the aftermath of mass shootings when citizens arm themselves for greater protection. We may suffer a similar fate as present NZ gun laws could allow nutters to purchase large clip magazines on Trade Me & the police have no knowlege of who owns what or how many rifles. A 30 shot mag fitted to any number of semi automatic (banned in Australia) rifles becomes a very lethal killing machine & god grant us mercy the day some "P" head looses it with one of these in the wardrobe. Its now time to give the NZ police the powers to register all firearms & restrict the sale of large shot magazines.
Patricia
My hearts and prayers go out to all the victims families. How many more lives are we going to lose before better gun control laws are established? It is a shame that the US government caves to the NRA....do they care about innocent lives? No, they don't… they care only about profit. Do they care about the constitution? No, they care only about profit. It is time (way past if you ask me) for the American citizens to stand up and speak out. We have lost too many innocent soles over greed. Stricter gun laws IS not taking away any ones constitutional rights "to bear arms"…. Better yet, do as Chris Rock states in the beginning of Bowling for Columbine: increase the cost of bullets….
Jruawhare
Kiwis heaping blame on Americans. Thats a bit sad isn't it? Give New Zealand the same population as America and watch how many weirdos would come out of the woodwork. People seem to forget, if NZ had the same population as the US, we would have just as many serial killers, rapists, murderers and yes, "School Shooting Lunatics". They may not have access to handguns, but theres plenty of semi-auto shotguns and rifles in NZ. Imagine if South Auckland was 50 times the population and size. How many Paicific Islanders are charged with shocking rapes and crimes, and theres currently only, how many there. What if that crime went through the roof? How many tourists come to "Green-Crime Free" NZ, only to get their belongings stolen, or raped / murdered? And whats our population? 4 Mill? I think too many people back home ( I'm a Maori living in California )have a tendancy to look the other way. Its way to easy to point the finger and say.."Oooo...America, land of guns and killers" How about..."Oooooo..New Zealand, land of meth labs and "P"..and men who kill little kids while on meth binges"..or..."Lets go for a hike ( female ) and get raped, then murdered by some Kiwi on the dole who everyone knew was a bit weird". Bugger me...doesn't sound so crash hot to live in NZ eh? Take the P epidemic in NZ and work that out per head of population, it makes us just as f-ked up as America's drug culture. I mean please, some people should pull their heads in and take a reality check. New Zealand may be for now, safe from walk in school shooters, but as our population grows, so does the number of nutters ( easy math equation folks )and meth users. Its just a matter of time, and considering the crimes being committed thus far by meth induced morons in NZ, its not to far off me thinks. I have a .50Cal S&W pistol,.357 Ruger, .45ACP Semi Auto and a military remington 870 12Guage, but im not running around shooting up schools. Ive already pulled a gun on a individual who was breaking into cars in our gated area, but thats part of living in the US. Crime happens...theres so many people.
Whats New Zealands excuse? 4 Mill' and we already have a reputation overseas of "be careful when in out of the way places, you can get your kit stolen and or raped / killed". So...what is our excuse then?
For Americas size, they theoretically should have school shootings like this on a weekly scale, but they don't.I think with all the guns that are out there, things could easily be a hell of a lot worse, but they aren't. Think about that fellow Kiwis, you are making it embarrassing to be called one. Haere Ra.
Bruce
I am a American and a NZ permanent resident after living in NZ 19 years I understand both countries well. The gun laws in NZ are far more sensible in any Kiwis way of looking at things because they do work I am very proud to tell my friends in the USA how the police dont carry guns except in extreme situations in NZ. The procedure to get a firearm licence in NZ is excellent with police visit to the house, hunter saftey courses being required and I am certain that we are at much safer in NZ than I am when I am in America.I also know that if this troubled young man had not had easy access to firearms the horrible killings would not have happened. In America people are used to being able to buy guns that has been part of the culture and it has always been our right. I have many friends who are lovely rational people who own guns some carry them in order to be able to protect themselves in just this kind of tragic incident prefer to live in New Zealand and I am privileged to be allowed to in no uncertain terms. But it is disappointing to read the cold remarks from Kiwis. These unfortunate young people lives have been snuffed out by a troubled man it matters not that he was from Korea or anywhere else. There are good and bad people from every country as we all know.The wonderful people that I know and love in New Zealand would be understanding and supportive and compassionate of Americas loss at this dreadful time of need.Is there a need for better gun control in the US of course there is no one can deny that, but now is the time for understanding. We have diverse culture in New Zealand that in the main embraces people of all the many countries that make our lives interesting and wonderful in our daily lives,please let us not single Americans out as idiots and such for they are not. They are caring wonderful people who sacrificed many lives for NZ and deserve respect.I do not agree with the government that George Bush is running or all the wars and lies nor do most of the people in the US any thinking person can see his administration is ruining America and its good name around the world.But the American people are still good and have mana unfortunatly our leaders do not know what it is.
Kiwi
Reading through the comments on this page written by all the Americans (or people living in America) is fascinating. They are all calling Kiwi's sick and disgusting for not liking America, and telling us that nobody cares about our country, and yet you are reading the NZ herald site! Something tells me you do care what we think! haha, go the NZ Herald!
Alex
I am writing this from the US. The level of anger (and illiteracy) that I see in some of the postings from US readers is frightening, but not surprising. After decades of conservative misrule, excepting a few Democratic admininistrations here and there, we've become a culture in which wealth and consumerism have become a primary value. Real regard for the common good is considered suspect or socialist. In addition, we also have a public education system of very very low quality (essentially a day care system in many places). A complete abdic