KEY POINTS:
Here is an earlier selection of Your Views. Some comments have been edited for legal reasons.
Richard
It seems to me that the New Zealand Police are incapable of dealing with major cases. It seems to me, as I look back over the years there has been a few major cases, where the police have screwed up the investigations, and I cannot help but wonder how many of the people involved in major crimes are in fact innocent. Not long ago there was a story that a book was to be released that claims that Scott Watson was also framed and not guilty for his crime. Are we to have faith in the New Zealand Police when so many major crimes, and some minor crimes those convicted have latter been found to of not done the crime? There needs to be some serious investigations into how the NZ police force investigate crimes, because I see little reason to have any faith in the police force.
H Dare
First David Bain and next Ellis, Scott Watson and Lundy. All 4 were miscarriages of justice. We may have a legal system but we don't have a justice system.
Anna
David Bain should be freed and also paid a large amount of compensation.
Concerned Citizen
I am relieved that David Bain's conviction has been quashed and I hope that he gets the justice due him - freedom and a pardon exonerating him from the crimes he was accused of committing. Very tragic case.
James Gollan
New Zealand must reinstate the Privy Council as our last Court of Appeal. We have too small a population to draw upon to ensure a totally unbiased court. With police corruption rife within NZ it is essential that we have a totally neutral final court.
Jimmy
I don't know whether David is guilty or not, and I don't care. But it would be interesting to see if this case does go to re-trial, this time with all of the evidence before the court. If there is sufficient doubt over David's guilt (and there seems to be) then he will be acquitted, making a case for compensation all the more stronger. I would like to see it go to re-trial for that reason. On the other hand, the police don't deserve a second bite at the cherry, as it were, because of the selectivity and the mishandling of evidence the first time around. How the heck does the house (the crime scene) get burned down only days after the murders? And finally, the Court of Appeal got slapped big time.
David
How hard would it be for the police to spend a little longer to get the case right, if they had spent a little more time working on the case, none of this would have happened. Look at the cost it is going to be on the taxpayer. David Bain has every right to reclaim his costs, along with every one who fought for his freedom. The bill will be huge. Add on the cost of keeping him in prison for 12 years, paying all of the judges and lawyers. How hard is it for the police to think things through on a case and see the long term effect. The system needs a shake up, heads need to roll over this, how can we rely on a system that sets up the innocent and sets free the guilty. The sad thing is that I bet the police will get a pay raise and a pat on the back. The old guard must fall. I want to see people made accountable for what they have done. There needs to be more independent bodies in cases not less, in the states they have a FBI, and what do we have? Let the man go, start a case for gross waste of government money.
Auckland
A lot of emotional nonsense has been aired by commentators here. Mike (Dunedin) is on the button. No one has denied that Robin Bain, the father, was shot in the back of his head with a rifle. Anyone with knowledge of firearms would know that it is impossible to commit suicide in this manner. David Bain was found guilty by a High Court jury and two courts of Appeal. In this case, the justice system was right.
Michelle
Get David Bain out, compensate him, - and may heads roll for those who decided that it was easier to assume than fully investigate - his compensation should come out of their pockets.
Kay
It seems clear that, had all the evidence been heard, there was 'reasonable doubt' in the Bain case (even to the legally illiterate public). NZ law says that's enough for him to be free. Shame the 'system' takes so long to work through. The true hero here is the loyal Joe Karam because right or wrong, he believed and put it all on the line for that. So Bain should be free now and Karam should be vindicated and both recompensed.
Alan Wilkinson
Not for the first time Professor Optican's views are totally unconvincing. Whether or not the public "needs to know whether David Bain is guilty or not guilty", it is unlikely that can ever be determined so long after the event and with so much of the prosecution evidence now clouded. A retrial jury will inevitably be unable to agree on a guilty verdict and will be hung or will acquit. The public view will almost certainly be that a retrial is a waste of time and money. Rather the public concern is why a succession of Court of Appeal decisions have been overturned, why senior criminal lawyers have no confidence in our Court of Appeal and whether the Supreme Court will perform any better in rectifying miscarriages of justice. The question is indeed how New Zealand can have an independent and assertive authority tasked with challenging judicial errors in the absence of the Privy Council. Professor Optican might have some basis for excusing the serious questions the Privy Council decision has raised about the competence of our senior appellant courts had this been a rare example. Unfortunately it is not.
Order a retrial
Some of you reckon that because the Privy Council disagreed with the Court of appeal, we should return to having the PC as our highest court. We shouldn't because: The PC has decided that there's no reason for thinking the jury considered certain points, and therefore the CA shouldn't have considered them. The PC has decided this even though (a) the prosecutor mentioned these points at trial, and (b) the trial judge mentioned them in summing up. Hmmm. Some of these comments seem to be based on the assumption that the ordering of a retrial means that Bain is innocent. Well, the PC itself says that no appeal court can decide whether or not Bain is guilty. Some other people seem to think that this case, the Ellis case, the Watson case, etc, all add up to a corrupt or incompetent NZ justice system. Now, people say Ellis should be pardoned because he was the victim of a sexual abuse witchhunt. But the same people say that Robin Bain must be guilty because his daughter, known to have lied about similar things, allegedly said he sexually abused her. Hmmm. David Bain's fingerprints were on the gun, and his family's blood was on his clothes. Hmmm.
Auckland
I have followed this case and never thought he was guilty for one moment. Fantastic and what a man Joe Karem is - David has been so very lucky to have him. But how about Scott Watson - another man inside for nothing, apart from being a bad boy, but definitely not a murderer. Helen Clark's government needs to rethink her decision on NZ and the Privy Council smart quick, we are far too small a country.
Bentcops
I am stoked, another huge slap in the face for the cops.
Smitty
Gone are the days where a man is innocent until proven guilty. The police do not look for evidence to find a man guilty yet they place their efforts on a guilty until proven innocent basis. This is passed down through the prosecution to the courts where the terms Innocent has no real meaning in New Zealand. How dare the courts say they are still considering whether to re-try the man!. On what basis I ask?
Grant Diggle
The decision of the Judical Committee of the Privy Council in this case highlights the error of Helen Clark and Margaret Wilson who were behind the move to abolish appeals to this Court. Alas the NZ judicary does not have the breadth and depth of the panel of eminent Law Lords who sit on the Committee. Yet again our Court of Appeal has been found wanting. This is of major concern as some of the jurists whose decisions in that Court were overturned now sit on the Supreme Court and it is not the first time they have been overruled. The citizens must now question whether they can have faith in people whose abilities to dispense justice has been declared inadequate.
Barb (Dunedin)
Mr Joe Karam, I thank you for everything you have done in getting the truth finally out there for all to see. I have never, ever, thought David was guilty and have had belief that if anyone could prove otherwise, it was you. I have cried all day and keep re-reading the privy councils outcome, just to know I'm not dreaming it. We, as a country, owe David Bain so much.
Katie, Christchurch
In my view, there are still far too many things that point to David as the killer to just let him walk free. The supposed "revelation of incest" as a motive for the father to kill the family is completely unreliable. Laniet Bain had also claimed she had a baby as a young teenager when the family lived in PNG and that was shown to be a complete fabrication. The family was odd to say the least, including David. The majority of the extended Bain family believe David to be guilty, and Robin innocent, and they knew them best. A retrial would at least get all the evidence before a jury and would, one way or another, settle the matter. Clearly from the amount of debate that's going on, it would absolutely be "in the public interest."
Matthew Pilott
I hope Bain gets a re-trial, otherwise he will be assumed to be guilty by many people (the case is polarising, but many consider him guilty). A re-trial will be the only way to exonerate Bain, based upon new evidence and destroying the case against him, if it was in fact so inept an investigation.As for the Privy council, Bain was indeed lucky that he got to have his case heard by the PC. Few people would have the means to get a case heard there. We're lucky we've got a supreme court in NZ, and those with the vision to set it up.
Rex (Panmure)
There should be no further trial. The Privy Council has decided David Bain suffered a miscarriage of justice, and in the circumstances now, there will always remain a doubt about his guilt. He should be given immediate bail, and consideration given to a pardon and compensation for the 12 years of imprisonment he should not have served.
Wendy
To Roy, there is never a good reason or motive for one to kill their family...the only thing needed is madness!
Eggy
Guilty as charged, bring back capital punishment. He looks like a weirdo.
Amie (Aussie)
I now live in Australia, but was in Dunedin when this tragedy occurred. I have never not even for one second, considered the maniacal notion that David is guilty. I would love to send him a personal congratulation (if someone knows how - please let me know). The law is a farce, it is completely obvious that the police just wanted to arrest someone as quickly as possible and picked on the last remaining member of the family to get this problem out of the way. The evidence against him was circumstancial at best. I, and my whole family, think he should never has spent one day in jail, let alone all these years.I hope it he gets millions and millions of dollars in compensation!
Blinded
Someone wearing a jumper like that should be guilty of something?. Is there no justice?'
SB(Christchurch)
What the Privy Council decision means is that David Bain is now innocent until proven guilty (in a retrial if it goes ahead). He doesn't have to prove his innocence, the Crown must prove his guilt. Congratulations David Bain and your loyal team, I hope you get the justice you deserve.
Rachel (Dunedin)
It is with deep concern and astonishment that I listen to and read, both public opinion and media reporting, regarding David Bain's legal proceedings. Especially a comment made by Mr Karam saying, "...now that the charges have been dropped, David should be freed immediately". I implore the public to read the report from the Privy Council stating reasons for the decisions and what it actually means. Quashed means invalid or dismissed, not found innocent, hence the ordering of a retrial. Also, The Board has stated that David Bain should remain in custody during the deliberations regarding if or when the recommended retrial be conducted. With all these points to consider, how can members of the public suggest that David Bain should be released, either on bail or because they have interpreted The Privy Council's decision as a finding of innocence. Furthermore, how has this turned into yet another Police persecution. The house was not burned down by the Police "two days after", as is being perpetuated, rather it was after sentencing, considerable months later and at the request of the extended family.
Judy (Kaitaia)
I am not convinced that David Bain is innocent but I think it is too late for a retrial to prove whether he is guilty. He should therefore be released from prison but as a trade-off not given monetary compensation.
Peter (Eden Terrace)
It's hard to sit and judge the events that occurred that morning in Dunedin 13 years on. I have always believed David to be innocent. It has come to light since that morning that Robin had a great deal of motivation. The potential exposure of his sexual dealings with his daughter, and the fact he appeared totally estranged from his family, living at the rear of the property in a caravan. As a man of some (albeit slight) standing in the community, such events could turn an already unbalanced man into a ruthless killer. No one really knows what goes on in the human mind, an outwardly ordinary person can have real demons within them, which lay dormant, till one day they are set free. I sit on the fence, but am leaning extremely heavily to the side or David Bain's innocence.
No name given
David Bain should be set free. We have no faith whatsoever in the Justice system. It is all too easy for counsel to withhold vital supporting evidence from juries. Why should a counsel get away with deliberately not following his client's instruction? Why does the Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court support the lawyer when this happens? How does our system allow this to happen? Bring back the Privy Council.
Shona Bull
Congratulations to Joe Karam & Michael Reed. Our hearts go out to David Bain. NZ prisons contain many innocent victims who did not receive a fair trial and whose supporting evidence has been deliberately withheld from juries. Justice must be sought and a fair trial guaranteed in all cases. Bring back the Privy Council.
Mike (Hamilton)
Why do people keep referring to the Thomas case, that was a totally different set of circumstances, Thomas should and was found guilty on the evidence produced, but the evidence was planted, this is not the case with Bain, there is no planted evidence.
Bloke (Koke)
In the light of this case we need an urgent, independent and authoritative review of the entire legal/judicial system. Suggestions: an independent prosecution service, a ban on police comment once charges have been laid, a thorough review of the rules of evidence, full disclosure of prosecution evidence to the defence and a court of last appeal with independence from the tiny coterie of judicial expertise available here.
Mick Cane
In any other civilised country a decision like this would have led to David Bain's immediate release. A retrial will simply be another opportunity for our Micky Mouse courts to show their pro-authority bias. End this fiasco, release this poor man and accept that NZ has a pitifully small pool of legal expertise with which to operate a three tier judicial system. We need the Privy Council.
Jo
I remember saying at the time of the trial - what a terrible case to be on the jury for. There were only ever two suspects in this case - David and Robin. If it was David, then the jury made the right decision. But if it was Robin, the jury were in the awful position of having to convict someone who was not only innocent, but who had lost his entire family. He has now served 13 years, which given the usual jail period that most murderers incurred at the time of the killings is about average (even on the long side). So if he were guilty - he's effectively served his time. If he's not guilty - he's served about 26 years too long. No retrial - it would be too hard to find 12 NZers who don't already have an opinion on the case.
Here we go again
What a pack of stupid people we have in this country! What on earth do you think the Police have against David Bain that would make them dodge an easy out (murder- suicide) in favour of prosecuting an innocent man? Do you think they get paid on a per prosecution basis? It makes me sick to my stomach when I see nice old ladies proclaiming that David is such a 'nice' man and therefore he must be innocent. Doesn't the evidence matter?
Sue (Whakatane)
I was very pleased to hear the news about the verdict from the Privy Council. I hope the Police and Courts will now allow Bail and will accept that another Trial is a waste of time and money. David should be allowed to get on with his life. Thank you Joe for all your hard work and money that you have used to carry on with David's Case. I and many other New Zealander's have felt that David was innocent and I am sure that the friends he has around him now will help him adjust to life and freedom. Good luck!
Tony Stockdale
Even if there were a retrial and another guilty verdict David could be sentenced to only 3-4 years! And of course this would be a sheer mockery of natural justice. Let him go immediately, and be pardoned and compensated.
Peter Watkins
I don't know whether he is innocent or not. But what is known is that the police handling of the case was suspect at best. That I can live with. What I don't have faith in is that this had to go to the privy council in the UK to for this to be acknowledged.
Ollie
I guess the question that needs to be asked before the release of any prisoner is: would I feel safe if he moved next-door to me? After all the media focus on the Bain case over the past 13 years, I have to say that if I glimpsed him mowing his lawn over my garden hedge I would not be unduly worried about it.
Peter Watkins
I don't know whether he is innocent or not. And I can live with the fact that the police handling of the case was suspect at best. But what is disturbing is that this had to go outside NZ to the Privy Council for this to be recognized
Westie (Hamilton)
Having read the complete judgment - an engrossing read - I am in accord with the Privy Council that a gross miscarriage of justice has occurred. In view of their findings and of the time that has elapsed since the first trial I cannot believe that any form of justice would be served by another retrial. It seems more than likely that the original investigation and subsequent evidence were less than impartial. I am concerned that the Crown prosecutor for the Privy Council hearing is the person who is to make the decision regarding any retrial. His integrity may be beyond question but the process now needs total public transparency and an independent person should be making that call. In the meantime David Bain should be bailed forthwith; he certainly does not represent any threat to any person. Our judiciary need to review the case and accept that their treatment of David was not in accordance with either the law or natural justice.
James (Aussie)
Joe Karam's one sided speculative reflection on the murder trial is well and truly exposed in a book by James McNeish, an independent person who attended every day of the trial and not someone who has picked at pieces of information about the trial. Well worth the time to read if you are after a true account of proceedings.
Gaza (Auckland)
Wake up and smell the roses people. 12 New Zealanders like you and me made the decision that Bain was guilty. Not the police. The police presented their case, the defence team presented theirs. These 12 New Zealanders did there best based on the information that they had at the time. Evidence presented in court can be interpreted many ways. 12 people decided that Bain was guilty based on our, yes our judicial system. The people that whinge about the guilty verdict and complain about there judicial system should just shut up. If you don't like the current system , do something about it and change it. No one has ever said that our current system is perfect. The rest of us that never heard the evidence being presented in court during Bain's trial cannot say that he is innocent or guilty. We were not at the trial and we were not in Bains house when these people were murdered. The privy council members made their decision on new information which can also be interpreted different ways! . Have a new trial and let 12 more New Zealanders like you and I make a decision on this new evidence. Thank you.
Auckland
When the privy council comes up with the view that, 'there has been a substantial miscarriage of justice', I think we can safely conclude that they've been totally bowled over by the lack of evidence that supports a 'David Bain guilty' verdict. These guys don't make decisions like this lightly you know. The people at the top are usually the last to click on. I hope David won't have to face a re-trial, as I think it's pretty clear by now to most rational thinking people that David is innocent. If you don't think so, then let's hear your argument. Besides, I'd be amazed if David Bain could pull the wool over Joe Karam's eyes; he's one smart, switched-on cookie! While I agree that David Bain has been punished for the last 12-13 years for a crime he never committed, I don't think this is N.Z's most obvious high profile mistaken incarceration. Scott Watson is the one that takes top prize in that category for me. If you haven't already done so, then please consider reading 'Trial by Trickery' by Keith Hunter. This book is hugely important to anyone interested in truth and justice.
Shell
David's conviction has been quashed - now lets get on with a retrial of the evidence. I still cannot be convinced that Robin Bayne could or would have chosen to shoot himself in the back of the head. How about we use some of those psychics from Aussies Sensing Murder to establish some of the events/motive and help with who really did it! They don't even need the facts to know what happened. Bet there's someone 'on the other side' desperate to tell it like it is.
Kiwi in Europe
The people that honestly believe that David Bain is innocent are probably the same that 9/11 was staged by the US Government. Both lawyers and Karam are quick to blame the Police for a botched investigation but have themselves continually played Bain to look like a 'nerd' wearing goofy glasses and a gay colored jersey at any of his trials or photos released of him. etc. Bain is guilty. Bain should remain in jail. What's next, releasing Mark Lundy because he doesn't normally wear a dress?
Mrs Larking
I have no faith in the justice system. It appears to suck up alot of money without any care for the truth. There is a presumption that if the police have laid the charge, the person must be guilty, and all the processes thereafter are geared to this direction. The police have unlimited financial resources, and more often than not, a person is driven by what is financially available to them, as far as taking the "best deal" from the prosecution. The truth doesn't even factor into the equation. I took diversion twice (no conviction gets put on record), because it was the cheap way out. However, given that in both incidences where my human rights were breeched, which resulted in me telling off police, which resulted in me being arrested on minors, if I knew now what I knew then, I would have spent the money, and taken a "not guilty" plea, and gone to defended hearing. Because once you are in their system, the police officers involved who have had black marks put by their annual appraisals, make it their mission to get you at every opportunity. I have no convictions, but my life has been ruined.
John
I can't believe all this hysteria to set David Bain free. The Privy Council has said there were inconsistencies in the evidence, not that he was innocent. There is still a lot of evidence against him, one of the main points being only David Bain's prints were on the gun not his father's, now that's not a bad trick for a man who supposedly shot himself. This case must be retried before David Bain is set free otherwise any compensation may be a bounty.
K. Crockett
Enough is enough, let him go.
Pauline (Oratia)
One need only to have heard David's distressed phone call to the Police to know he was innocent. The fact that crucial evidence which was not presented to the jury, but that was presented to the appellate judges who ignored that evidence shows we are in need of the reinstatement of the Privy Council. Otherwise, what chance is there when two of the same judges are in the Supreme Court? Bloody footprints all over the house too small to be Davids foot size. How hard is that to figure? We don't stand a chance.
Judy (Kaitaia)
I am not convinced that David Bain is innocent but I think it is too late for a retrial to prove whether he is guilty. He should therefore be released from prison but as a trade-off not given monetary compensation.
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