KEY POINTS:
The debate about "killer" dogs returned after a number of dog attacks.
Dog owners were divided about whether dogs or the owners were to blame.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Daron
In almost every case of dog bites the situation can be controlled and avoided if the dog is well trained and the owner is at hand, or the dog is in a secure area. I also agree with a view that the owners should be more accountable for the dogs behaviour but my worry is that this can go too far. A natural reaction on a dog who feels cornered or scared is to bite and I would be shocked to be charged and/or fined if my dog bite in self defence.
Julie
Unfortunately dog language differs to human language and the elderly lady concerned received a shocking lesson in dog manners. A stranger approaching directly and placing a hand over its head is frequently interpreted as a serious threat by a dog. We might see it as akin to shaking hands but they don't. Even placid, good natured dogs become agitated and uneasy if approached like this, just watch any dog out in public and see how often people ignorantly do this and how the dog becomes immediately unsettled. If you want to greet a dog ask the owner before you approach and if you are given the OK hold you hand down and allow the dog to sniff it.
Andy
All dogs are dangerous, they can all bite. Its up to the owners to know their dog and to be responsible. You are always going to have exceptions to the rule and people who do not obey laws. Do not blame the government, they could make 1000 laws on dogs and there will be people who ignore them. I have an idea, don't pat a dog you do not know, don't leave your children alone with a dog. Educate your children not to run up to dogs often it is just the dog feeling threatened. It's not only the dog owners but the general public need to sort it out as well.Shock horror dogs bite, I would like to see this kind of reaction every time a drink driver kills another person. Leave us dog owners alone, don't put the rest of us in a box because of a small handful of idiots.
Morry
Stop blaming the dogs, they don't attack people naturally! Jail the rat bags who starve them to make them vicious and train them to bite and attack people and other dogs. Why should my beautiful Lab, mans best friend who lives in a good home and is loved be labeled as a vicious breed ,not over my dead body!
Diana
I just saw a Pit Bull outside a shop tied up to a shop with flax! The trouble is, is that an owner of such a dog will be in no position to stop a dog from mauling once it starts. I think all dogs no matter what breed should be muzzled when outside the owners house. So if it escapes for any reason, the public is assured safety! I want to be able to walk down the road without having to worry that some dog is going to race out at me and attack!
Grame D'Arcy
My feeling is that banning such breeds is ok but it would be more effective if owners were given severe penalties for attacks. These would increase in severity if their dogs were unregistered, not in secure accommodation, not neutered.
Yvonne Shirley
We don't need these vicious breeds of dog in New Zealand. Do away with them before too many more people are killed or badly mauled. However in saying that, any dog can attack. I was badly bitten about the face when I was seven by an otherwise placid farm dog. The attack was totally unprovoked. I stepped out of a car and the dog pounced and threw me to the ground. It died a few weeks later so may have been unwell at the time of the attack.Please, please can we do away with the vicious dogs. People are more important.
Lisa Young
The law itself is not the problem. It's that the laws made by the government are not enforced. No law is going to be any good if it is not enforced. In regard to the recent fatal dog attack, of course the family doesn't want to press charges as the owner of the dog is one of their own. I bet if it was not a family member then they sure would want to press charges.
Rob
Pit Bulls are friendly, active dogs that need lots of exercise. They are eager to please, inquisitive, and very intelligent. Contrary to popular belief, most Pit Bull Dogs are patient and adore children, making them perfect family dogs. Due to their breeding, they tend to be aggressive toward other dogs, but some co-exist well with other pets. While a dog of any breed may become aggressive when raised in an abusive environment, Pit Bulls are not by nature aggressive toward people. Pit Bull dogs crave love and attention. This was taken off the web and there is a ton of stuff on there about the breed. Nearly all of it indicates the above. It is the owners responsibility to look after the dog. These dogs have a history of being used as working dogs / care dogs / they have been used as police dogs / in wars and no I don't own a pitbull but get serious - the dogs are made by their upbringing and from what we have seen on TV I bet it hasn't been Little House On The Prairie! Regulate the owners and enforce the current rules - don't target breeds, they can all bite.
Mercedez
If you take the amount of times mutts have bitten people it would be larger than what it is of the Pittys and the Rotties. Its the fact that the breads of Pittys and Rotties are a dangerous animal but it all comes down to the owners. Dogs are not humans they dont think the same as what we do if they feel threatened they will act on it. As an owner of a Pitt Bull Red Nose i have brought her up well and she is friendly and plays with all my family members. It comes down to how they are brought up in their home!
Lee
We live in a very comfortable, safe, semi rural sub-division. Safe with regards to very little crime. However, some of our immediate neighbours own Pit Bull crossbreeds and Stafordshire Terriers. These dogs randomly rush, growl and bail up people walking past their houses and often come on to our property. This has been going on for 5 years - we have had arguments with the neighbours who assure us these dogs are safe and friendly. Dog rangers have been called and the owners warned - it changed things for a short time only. I know other neighbours in our street are intimidated by these dogs. My children are not allowed to go out the gate because of them and I have developed acute hearing for dogs barking angrily. My perception and experience of these dogs is that they are really vicious. The result is that our lives have been affected negatively so that our neighbours can pursue their 'rights' to own a particular breed. Our streets should safe and they are not - that poor woman in Murapara lost her life because some people want their rights to own a dangerous vicious breed protected. Dogs are animals for goodness sake - when this attack happened it shows who was the boss - not the human - the dogs. One life was lost - that is more than enough to ban those breeds. Just because some are controlled does not take away the fact that many are not. They present a danger and should be eliminated. Its hardly rocket science.
Arna Johnson
Powerful dogs need to be trained and cared for correctly. That is the owners responsibility. If you put a knife in the wrong hands it can be used as a weapon. So do we ban the use of all knives? I own & have always owned pitbulls & they loyal & loving dogs. Our 3 year old child has grown up around them. Maybe a licence should be introduced for owners of potentially dangerous dog breeds taking away the risk of the "weapon" being in the wrong hands. If we eliminated everything on the planet that ever hurt a human, there wouldnt be much left - including our own species. Think about it.
Amanda Smith
Hey what a great idea - let's outlaw 'killer' pitbulls. Even if it were possible - dog attacks would still happen. Messed up people get hold of big dogs, they don't train them correctly and the dog ends up unpredictable. I have owned dogs all my life, staffys, a pitbull cross, a white bull terrier and a german shepherd. None of these dogs were 'bad'. Although, in my experience lots of kids have tried to (whilst making a din) run up and pat my dogs without their parents doing a thing. Seems weird.
Jeni
How do you prevent vicious dog attacks? I would also ask how do you prevent vicious human attacks? How do you prevent crime? How do you prevent underage drinking, speeding etc,etc ad nauseum. You educate, both humans and dogs to the best of abilities, but unfortunately (and sadly) it won't get through to all. I can tell you that responsible dog owners have had more than enough of being tarred with the brush created by uncaring, power-hungry idiots, and grieve for the victims of attacks such as the Murupara one. But a responsible dog owner also wonders why, in another case, someone would approach an unattended dog that is tied up (restricting its ability to avoid contact), without first checking with the owner - even a cute, little corgi in the same situation can snap. Maybe instead of whipping up a media frenzy repeating stories and pulling out generic photos of snarling dogs, you could print informative articles instead? (Oh hang on, its bad news that sells, isn't it? And the comment about muzzling all dogs when outside the property? Well, I might agree to that, if we can muzzle all screaming, badly behaved kids and sulky, disrespectful teenagers (and thats just to start with).
Sandra
I think every household should be given a free dog repellant just the same as every household is given smoke alarms - this has now quite clearly become a matter of life and death.
Rachael
I find it extremely ignorant of people to say, "these dogs are breed to kill". The owness falls on the owner not the animal. Like children, animals are a bi-product of their environment. It is just unfortunate that some extremely unsavoury people own these breeds. If an animal is trained well, treated well and adequate fencing enforced no animal, no matter what breed would end up doing what those dogs did. The owners should be trialled for manslaughter, as they did not have the dogs in a controlled environment to keep themselves safe and the public. Once an owner has been found to be negligent they shouldn't be able to own another animal. Every time a person wants to adopt/own an animal, there should be a security process set in place. This will create more work on the front line but potentially save lives and a lot of time, money and resources in the long run.
Elayne Ravji
believe the Dog Control Act is strict enough. Banning specific dog breeds is not going to stop dog attacks. Dog control officers can seize a dog on private land where the dog is not constrained or under control of a person over 16 yrs, if the dog has been off the property not under control, ie roaming at large. So why wasn't this done if these dogs were known to be roaming at large. All dogs have the potential to harm you, irrespective of the breed. Children, dog owners and non dog owners alike, need to be educated in basic dog behaviour, dog bite prevention & responsible dog ownership. As for the lady who was bitten at the supermarket, she should not have attempted to pat the dog, this was clearly not the owners fault. I teach basic dog obedience and I include segments in all my courses on Dog Bite Prevention, Dog Control Act & Basic Dog Behaviour.
Amanda K
A tied-up or leashed dog often sees a person lunging in to "pat" it as aggressive. I'm sure the old lady meant well, but as much as dogs do need to be socialised and trained, so do people. Never touch somebody else's dog, especially a restrained (or eating) one, unless the owner expressly tells you it's OK to do so. Dogs aren't inherently dangerous creatures; they just need to be respected, just like any other animal, including people. Imagine if somebody you didn't know started unexpectedly stroking (or thumping) you on the back or head. Whether they did it with a kind look on their face or not, you probably wouldn't like it.
Boxer
I think it is pathetic people saying muzzle all dogs. I grew up with and still have loads of dogs in my home and I am still amazed at the amount of people who come up and try and pat my dogs when out in public, my dogs would never hurt a fly so its okay... but its asking for trouble going up to a strange dog and patting it. Most people don't know how to approach dogs anyway so of course an animal that feels threatened is going to lash out. How about teaching your children not to go near dogs they don't know that would be the smart thing.
Lany
This is whats called a 'Moral Panic'. For years the governments wanted to put in place more laws regarding dog and dog ownership. The death of that woman gave the government and the media that 'window of opportunity' to exploit this situation and raise a state of panic amongst the country. I'm sure minor dog attacks happen all the time, but it is because of that window of opportunity that we have seen so mush of it highlighted in the media. However I think such dog owners should be punished for not raising the dogs in a proper manner and with good training. Why are the dogs being put down when its the owners fault for not training the dog? The dogs dont know any better!
Ms Auckland
It is certainly true that some silly macho dog owners can, and do, turn an otherwise good, friendly dog into a vicious and dangerous animal. But it is also true that fighting dogs and inbred dogs are or can be very dangerous, even to its own owners and family no matter how you train your dog or not.German shepherds, e.g. used to have a bad name, which I think is rather unfair, but, of course, there again it also depends on its owners. Once upon a time I was the happy owner of a wonderful and friendly German shepherd, which I'd trained myself not to be a guard dog but a friendly family dog. It wouldn't even know how to catch a burglar. Needless to say, it never attacked or bit anyone. Even that a dog's behaviour depends very much on its owner I still think it right to ban all fighting and very inbred dogs. Because they will never turn into friendly family dogs, like my lovely ex-pooch, and thus constantly be a danger to everyone.
Michelle
It's true, registering and microchipping would not have prevented these attacks, but love them or hate them - a muzzle would have. I think all dogs, when out in shared public spaces and not designated dog areas should wear a muzzle - this would have prevented some of the attacks in the past.Dogs caught wandering the streets who are not registered or chipped should be impounded then chipped/registered at the owners cost or destroyed at a refusal to pay for this service and then have them blacklisted against owning dogs. Before anyone accuses me of hating dogs, yes I have one - a lovely 70kg mastiff whose a complete marshmallow. But that doesn't stop me from taking every care to ensure that he doesn't leave our property or that he is properly and lawfully restrained when he does.
Madeleine
Muzzling, although it would be effective, seems unnecessarily cruel, especially given that well trained dogs, the vast majority, don't require it. Having been raised a cat person, I admit I have little idea what to do when confronted by a strange dog, let alone attacked by one. Education at primary school age would be useful, but a reminder is also needed for adults. Perhaps the Herald could link to some useful websites/publish a guide? I think Robert's plan regarding strays (earlier views) sounds quite workable. Owners should be held responsible for the consequences of any deadly weapon they allow out in public. We also hear a lot about the breeds responsible...is there any link with the sex (and its intactness) of the attacking dogs? The only option for someone being attacked would seem to be to fight back with some kind of weapon. Although mace might be illegal, I'm sure some oven cleaner would do the trick.
Bob
When good pets go bad: There's a good chance you have provoked the animal, unless he wouldn't be in such a state. Those of you who got children must be careful as children can't understand why dogs should be allowed to be dogs. When you approach a strange dog on the road or approaching a house with a dog barking behind a fence even, don't make a lot of noise, stay calm and go about your business.Don't do anything to provoke him and do not run away if the animal makes eye contact with you.
SF
There are some really good ideas in these comments and I wish, some politician would take notice of them..
a) Eradicaton of breeds mentioned in the "dangerous dogs" act by breeding restrictions, se-sexing requirements and additional licensing b) ALL dog owners must have a fully fenced property capable of containing their dog.
c) Dog Control staff to get adequate training in identification of dangerous breeds
d) Dog control staff to commence patrolling streets and to act accordingly. If a dog is roaming - it gets picked up. If you want it back you pay for it. No smacking on hand with a wet bus ticket.
If all people would comply with point b) - this won't happen - will it?
e) Breeding of dogs to be restricted to registered breeders only with a kennel license issued by their council
f) Prohibit the sale of dogs in pet shops and internet sites like Trade Me. This is too anonymous and comfortable for "mongrel" breeders, that includes Designer dogs
g) Dog control staff to leave old ladies "fluffys" alone and concentrate on the real problem - even if that doesn't bring in as much revenue and sitting in the car either at 6am at the Beach and pouncing on people out walking their dog or sitting on the side of the road and jumping out pouncing on old ladies walking their pooches to see if it's registered. If it's not they slap a fine on it.This happens a lot in one of the councils in the Auckland Region and the officer in question is a disgrace to the profession. Work for your money guys - other people have to!
h) Automatic seizure of dogs that are found on properties, but are not registered. If need be - with police assistance.
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