KEY POINTS:
The devastated mother of a teenage girl killed when she was run down by a car outside a party says she has to accept there are some things a parent cannot control.
Are there steps parents can take?
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Anna
Hey I'm a 16 year old who went to my first party in the weekend. All of my mates were drinking apart from me because I choose not to drink. Even if the government did rise the drinking age back up it would not stop young people drinking or obtaining alcohol. They would just find alternative ways. For example over the weekend we had a 30 year old buying the alcohol for us. I think that the best thing for parents to do is lay down the ground rules. My mum laid them down for me and they were very reasonable. "No drinking and then driving", "Don't feel pressured into doing something you don't want to do" and the like. I think the best thing for parents to do is to find out as much about where their kids are going, who's going to be there and make sure their kids know the rules. Even if they do all this and know all this, there is as my parents always say a chance, "It's not always you. You have to take into account all the other people around you and their actions."
Michael
It is not the parents, it is not the police, it is not society, it is the teenagers themselves. They chose to go to the party, to stay there, to drink and get rowdy. They want to be treated like adults. I say rubbish to that. You are not adults, so we shall not treat you like one. Raise the age. Make people be responsible for themselves. I would leave a party of 400 teenagers with cops around long before any chance of being killed by some freak. Teenagers these days are too weak to stand up to a real society with morals and manners. Its easier to get angry and fight than control yourself and be mature. Who is to blame for this? Only each person in their own self.
Andrew Montgomery
Not possible. It's life.
Karl Rohde
Drinking age? Get real people. My late parents gave me alcohol at family events when I was very young, They were old school Europeans. It did not turn me into a binge drinker. It has nothing to do with drinking age. This issue relates to attitude, responsibility and self-esteem. The man who turned his car into a weapon was irresponsible, and obviously very disturbed. The alleged driver was also 22 - so how could the drinking age have prevented it. (It used to be 20 NOT 21). Technology created the environment, and a complete lack of understanding of that technology disempowered the parents and the police to prevent the environment. Simple as that.
Dennis (UK)
This sounds like a perfect situation for using tear gas. And then string them up. It's the only language they understand.
Andrew
All these people that use this as another reason to raise the drinking age do not realise that doing so will remove all the 18 and 19yo's from a controlled environment in bars and force them to have huge house parties which is the inherent problem of the recent event. If the police think its hard breaking up a party full of school kids, wait until they have to try and break one up full of adults. Yes there is a problem with youth drinking getting out of control but raising the age would only make matters worse. At the end of the day the issue is about having a controlled environment not the age of the people drinking.
Old ch ch schoolgirl
Two thoughts: 1) A ChCh teenager in the 80s heard a comment from the principals assoc head that he thought a student from almost every secondary school in ChCh at the party. The role of text messaging. Keep the fun to yourselves kids you can trust your friends but not strangers. In the 80's pre cell phone maybe 4 schools represented at a party not 20 schools. The quality of the company not the quantity makes for a good time. 2)The mistake the kids made was to stand on the road. I teach my 6 and 3 year old to stay off the road and to always watch for cars. A timely reminder that cars are king on the roadway and stay off it Incredibly sad that youngsters trying to get away from an out of control situation should loose their lives. Again it is reasonable to trust your friends but not crazy motorists or strangers
Emma
Not knowing the parents, I am loathe to comment on their parenting skills. The blame is with the driver. To all those blaming the parents, can you honestly say that no matter how much your parents tried to protect you, that you never, not once, attended a party, event or something you "shouldn't" without their knowledge? My parents always made every attempt to know my whereabouts and who I was hanging out with and you absolutely could not fault them in that regard whatsoever. But that doesn't mean I didn't do the odd thing I shouldn't or go to a party I had neglected to mention, and had anything as tragic as this happened to me, I would be devastated to think my parents were been blasted as irresponsible by the general public. Regardless of their parenting skills, let's not forget these parents are also grieving and could do without being blamed for this tragedy. None of the parents is responsible for that man driving a car into a crowd. Even if they were not responsible in parenting their children, the simple fact is if that man hadn't driven the car into those kids, it wouldn't have happened, regardless of whether the parents knew where they were or not.
Louise (North Shore)
Yes there is something parents can do: get some parents from the kids on the party as well to supervise and to interfere if problem guests arrive. Why can't parents have fun as well and be interested in the lives of their children? Get to know your child's friends, and set rules before they enter the house: no swearing, not being intoxicated and no drugs. A bit like a bouncer at pubs/bars, maybe with some pitbull terriers in the front to scare the mentally weaker guests. I come from Europe and remember this happened 25 years ago during my graduation party. I was very glad my father was there, unnoticable until problem guests arrived. It never went out of hand, because parents were there as well. My kids are luckily too young to go to parties yet but I will be there, together with a few other Mums/Dads when their time comes. Come on parents lets party together with your kids!
Tarochips
No fear of consequences, that is what is wrong. Teenagers do what they do because they know they can get away with it or they don't care what happens regardless. I feel for the parents of the two girls that died. Even worse than having them pass in such a tragic way, at a time when they should be enjoying the peak of their youth, must be the knowledge that a lot of the people at that party will remember, sympathise, and then probably move on to do more of the same. If it doesn't affect or engage them directly, chances are they won't learn from it (they will remember it, but not in the way that is deserved). I went to a funeral for a young friend who died in a drink driving accident. A year later I saw a number of the people who were weeping at her funeral at a party out of town. A lot of them were drinking, and then drove home (it's not that far, it's a quiet road, I've eaten a bit and not drunk anything for an hour). I was disgusted yet am also guilty of the same. Its easier when you've never been on the receiving end of punishment meted out by the judicial system (not as forgiving or lenient as your parents). We can change things if we make the consequences immediate and real. Throw a huge party? Then pay for the clean up afterwards (and lose your stereo to noise control indefinitely). Drunk and underage? Then prepare to get the same treatment as a drunk and disorderly adult picked up in the city (a night in a cell proved an amazing deterrent for an ex-flatmate of mine). Left school? Then get a damn job and start paying your parents board. Got a speeding ticket? Same deal - payment from yourself and no one else. The argument for teenagers rights will be strongly tempered when consequences are administered as evenly as those adults are faced with. Unfortunately some, like the person ultimately responsible for these deaths, learn far too late.
Mitch (AK)
Although this was a horrible tragedy, it is not a regular occurrence in New Zealand. Prevention methods adequate to deal with this issue have not been found and will not be found anytime soon because it was an irrational action by the driver and once someone becomes that age they make their own decisions and no-one can tell them what or what not to do. If the party was on the road, parents would warn their kids or even ban them from attending, but in this instance danger of a speeding car plowing through a crowd would have been the last thing on their minds, which is completely reasonable. Protecting children is not the issue here, irrational actions bred into the youth of today however, is.
Philip (Burnley, England)
You people are literally sickening. I can't believe the reactions I'm reading. Blaming a girl's parents for the fact she was killed by a speeding driver? Are you out of your minds?I'm 16 years old, and my mother is one of the most over-protective people I know. But she also allows me freedom. I think to be allowed to attend a party, full of other, same-age children is absolutely natural and normal. Fair enough, you may disagree, but blaming this tragedy on the girls' parents is disturbing. As it happens, Jane and I went to the same secondary school here in the North West of England. We were never close, but this has come as a horrible shock. She was the cleverest girl in the school, and had so much going for her.
Robert Glennie
I am 26, and I have a 24-year-old brother. Our parents were fair and laid down clear guidelines with no doubt existing about what would happen if we overstepped them. When we were in our last year of high school there was a 1.30AM curfew during holidays and midnight during term time; no alcohol from home; no tobacco products and no drugs. My parents knew the parents of at least one of the others going with us to parties, and what the ground rules for their kids were. Not sure whats so hard about that today. The families of the dead, and of the accused must be living a nightmare right now - they are in my thoughts. Long after the last person leaves the last funeral for this, it will reverberate through peoples lives.
Owen (Christchurch)
Here's a novel approach: perhaps instead of wasting a year in seventh form (showing my age sorry) we could look at Compulsory Military Training. It doesn't have to be all about guns and killing. It can be about learning to have some discipline, manners, self-respect, respect for others, being able to balance your cheque book, keeping your environment tidy, the basics of car maintenance or gardening. It seems unfortunate that a small percentage of youth out there bring a bad reputation upon the many who I well imagine would relish the opportunity to develop themselves through a structured learning environment that would offer a chance to grow as people.
Tony King
Its simple.You hit the liquor industry and shut down anyone who sells liquor to minors.
Peter Watkins
Excellent, the government is considering raising the price of alcohol to discourage young drinkers. The same group that it recently allowed to drink by lowering the legal age.
Jess
Where are they morals? Where are the boundaries? I cant believe what these youngsters wear to a party (they look like prostitutes) My father would measure my skirt before I left the house - always, and days of a shorter one i knew he wasnt happy about it. During the day most of them spit on the sidewalk and the mouths on them! The day I have children, they will be brought up with morals on self respect, respecting elders, great manners and be loved. I will teach them the importance of these qualities and how far it will get them in life!. Perhaps I will need to book an island to raise them?Ahem - yes, its Society.
Leah (Christchurch)
What parent lets their 16 year old go out to a random party where there is going to be alcohol and possibly drugs!
Andrew
Of course the parents are to blame! This isn't about the driver. It's about the 400-700 drunken teens, rioting, throwing bottles at the police (and apparently at the car involved). As for those blaming the police, I'd like to see you and 30 others go and try and 'disperse' 400 drunken teenagers. It's a lose-lose situation for police. If they are too forceful, they get in trouble If they're not forceful enough, they get criticised.
Em (Waiheke Island)
Legislation to have the legal Age for purchase of alcohol put back to 21 - I have noticed since the legal age was lowered there has been a significant increase in alcohol related crime and violence - especially against children - drunk driving has increased instead of diminishing - for such a small country we are responsible for our younger generation steering a lethal path and destroying life. Let's stop it now. Our Prime Minister is a warm and feeling person and would listen to all appeals. I am sure in light of these most recent tragedies that Helen would be supportive of such a move.
K (Auckland)
The Govt tells us how to feed our kids, how to raise our kids, if we can smack them or not. Why don't we let them be responsible for our kids and monitor them every day of their lives? Grow up New Zealand. As parents we need to be responsible for our children. Be involved with them, know what they are doing. My parents did. And I was certainly not allowed to be out at all hours drinking.
Melissa (Auckland)
How many more people have to die so tragically before something is done about the drinking age in this country? If the drinking age was 21, there would have been no party in the first place. There may have been a few quiet drinks etc, and had it gotten so large, authorities would of been called and people arrested for underage drinking. It would never of stemmed to having hundreds of teenagers mulling about on a street. Wherever there is alcohol, there is young people, there is fighting, there is abuse, there are people not thinking straight and this is when we end up with tragic consequences. If countries like America can live with the drinking age being 21, I don't see why little ol NZ can't either.
Auckland
Everyone seems to be blaming the 16 year olds or their parents - saying that we should raise the drinking age, the parents shouldn't have let them go - but the person who was allegedly driving the car was 22. Surely if anyone's to blame, it's him.
Albert
How to prevent another teenage tragedy? It cannot be prevented as long as there are idiots out there who choose to behave in a way that will endanger people's life, not even if there is a law against it. And there are plenty of them, idiots, out there.
GF
You can't do anything, there are too many idiots out there these days, you can't ban people...
Nikki (Auckland)
My heart goes out to the mothers and families of these two girls. You cant be with your kids 24/7. Yes, you can do your best to instill good values and support your children to help them make good choices. But you can't protect them at all times. It's so easy to have retrospective vision. Tread carefully on this mother's grief. Be kind people. These families need comfort and support, not judgment.
Derek
It always interests me that whenever something like this happens everyone looks for someone to blame. The parents must be wrong for letting the young person go out, the police must be wrong for not breaking up the party earlier, the people at the party were no doubt drinking so alcohol must be the cause, and there were boy racers driving up and down outside so we might as well blame them too. What interests me is that no one seems to be interested in considering what would cause any young person to take a car, aim it at a group of (by all accounts) popular young people and put his foot down long enough and hard enough to run more than a few of them down. I suspect the answer most would come up with so far would be 'oh he was drunk and drunk people do stupid things' but if that's the case why don't we have more people jumping in their cars and running other people down. I don't think New Zealand as a society really wants to know what our young people are thinking and feeling about their lives and their world. We'd much rather look at what they do and draw conclusions from that. If they drive their cars fast we assume the solution must be to take the cars away or stop them getting licenses. If they drink alcohol unwisely (as people without experience with alcohol are bound to do) we jump up and down about raising the drinking age and taking it away. And if they go to parties where one young person hurts others, we assume the best approach is for them simply not to have been there in the first place. Perhaps it's scary for us to think about tackling the mental and emotional well-being of our young people and to resist our knee-jerk tendencies in favour of looking for ways to assist and develop our young people to make good choices and deal with the things that are bothering them. ..There are plenty of other instances I believe could be avoided if we took more real interest on our young people for who they are rather than some problem we have to fix.
Ben
It seems to me that kids are just getting dumber. Gradually over the years the things they do is getting progressively worse. It was not that long ago I was that age (90's) and going to parties and staying out all night etc, but I don't think I ever went to a party that got out of control or people threw bottles at the cops. Kids are just getting more out of control and gradually what they get up to is becoming almost normal. Even before this ChCh was constantly featured in the news cause gangs of kids where beating people up. I dunno make army training compulsory or something. And ChCh mayor partially blaming it on videogames? No wonder there's problems going on in his city, he hasn't a clue about anything.
Marie (Wellington)
To start I want to say that what happened on the weekend was an unfortunate tragedy waiting to happen. As a mother of four children aged from 10 to 17 I find it so hard to believe that so many teenagers can be out without their parents knowing where they are. My son is aged 17. He very rarely drinks, has never done drugs or smoke. He is heavily involved in sport and knows what he wants from life and has learnt through school that drinking and partying is no way to achieve this. When he does go out with his mates then I make sure as his mum I know where he is and he is aware that I can turn up at anytime to check on him. He is honest and has no need to lie to us as he has more respect with us and his peers that way. Wake up parents and be responsible and stop moaning about what others do to your children when at the end of the day they haven't been truthful to you and you haven't bothered to find out where they really are! We need to break the cycle now and take back control of the teenagers and remember more about how we were not allowed the freedom to do grown up things at such an early age.
Cindy (Auckland)
Parents are going to have to take responsibility for some of this and stop playing the blame game. Why are parents letting 16-year-old kids out at night not knowing where they are going? There is a serious lack of responsible parenting in New Zealand and it appears to be all to easy to blame others. These are your children, start raising them properly. This is becoming a country where the children rule the parents.
Fiona (Dunedin)
Leave the parents alone, its very tragic for them that they have lost their daughter, it's not their fault she is dead it's the fault of the guy that ran her over. It's normal for teenagers to go to parties, they want to spend time with their peer group its a normal part of growing up.
Amanda (Auckland)
Perhaps if parents took more responsibility and more active roles in their childrens lives such tragedies would not occur. I am now 21 yet as a 16 year old I was not allowed to go to parties, I was not allowed alcohol and my mother ensured that the clothes i wore were appropriate for a 16-year-old teenager. When i was at school (I finished 7th form in 2003) so many parents brought their children alcohol, or their childrens friends alcohol & then let them go to parties and such without really asking questions. Children are growing up so fast & their parents are not helping. Parents should stop falling for the excuse of "but everyone else is allowed to do it" and not allow their children to be put in that position in the first place.
Sonia
I would like to point out to some of the previous posters – the alleged driver was in his 20s, he was not a teenager and so your "bad parenting" argument is quite irrelevant. Further, it doesn't matter how good the parents are, kids are going to rebel at that age (teenagers), it is a fact of life. Teenagers have always drunk alcohol and the law has never acted as a deterrent. It is ridiculous to say teens should not be allowed to go to parties. It is only a very small percentage that are irresponsible. What is needed is adequate alcohol and drug education in schools, like I said, they are going to do it regardless of what the law says so better that they are educated and can make informed and responsible decisions. Lowering or raising the drinking age will not make a difference, it never has. New Zealand has a problem with binge drinking and it is by no means a young persons problem, there are plenty of 30+ getting drunk on the weekends and causing!
just as much, if not more, trouble than young people. Maybe we need to address the culture of binge drinking in NZ rather than pointing the finger at the youths and "bad parents" look at fixing the real problems. In terms of preventing a tragedy like this happening again, I don't really know if that is a realistic way of looking at the situation. There are always going to be stupid, crazy people and there are always going to be innocent bystanders caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, it is a fact of life. I suppose being alert and keeping an open mind to every situation could help, but really there is no way of predicting such an event happening and thus no realistic way to prevent it. Parents should be vigilant of what their teenagers get up to and just make sure they are equipped with the right education and social skills to avoid or remove themselves from hostile situations if they can also make sure they keep a cell phone with them when they go out so they can call for help if they need it.
I used to be a parent (Christchurch)
Until I came to NZ and found I had virtually lost all my parental rights. So, Beks, who needs the kick in the butt? Who is going to provide it, when will we be arrested for it, and when will CYFS be round to collect the receiver of the kick? Give parents back their rights - all of them and that includes getting rid of the ridiculous privacy act for kids. That act should only apply when they reach majority which, by the way should be 21 for everything.
Jon
Many of the earlier comments mention parents taking responsibility. I agree with this sentiment. I suggest that the media can play a role in educating and supporting parents to take greater responsibility. Articles about what parents should accept responsibility for would be useful. Condemnation of large parties that spill onto streets, of parents who provide alcohol to teenagers, of parents who turn a blind eye to their teenagers driving outside the conditions of their licence are all actions that can be taken to create an environment where it is "bad parenting" to do such things.
Rosina
I am the mother of 4 children, 3 sons 28,21,18 and a daughter of 13.The older two when they lived at home, I basically locked up. They found a way to go where they wanted anyway.The 18 year old lives and works in Auckland. Every weekend he is out with his friends hooning it around, going to parties and so on.Like most young people he is fearless and tells me nothing will happen to him. I pray he is right. My 13 year old daughter is not allowed out at nights - but I know that in a few years time, she too will find a way to go where she wants to. So how do we prevent tragedies from occurring? We cant. .Every mothers fear is that harm will come to her child, but we cant lock them up forever. All we can do is teach them how to keep safe, to call home if they need to, and that Mum or Dad or whomever will come for them no matter what.
Rick
People need to realise that tragedies like this are always going to happen, no matter what laws or money you throw at it. Unfortunately, the two girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time. The only blame in this situation, should be directed at the idiot driving the car, not the police, not the people hosting the party, not anyone. We can all try our best in life, but sadly, occasionally, tragedies like this will always happen. Move on.
Clare
As a teenager I used to attend these sorts of parties. My parents knew where I was most of the time, other times I probably simply lied. I find it hard to accept that people are questioning the parenting in this case. From what I have read they are loving parents who cared about their girls very much. If you are going to simply put your foot down and stop teenagers from doing something they really want to do a great majority of them would simply rebel. It wasn't societys fault, it wasn't the victums fault and it certainly wasn't the parents fault. Put it down to one stupid, stupid decision from an individual whose anger sooner or later would have put him in serious trouble.
Boysmum (Beach Haven)
EC, I don't believe we have a whole generation of problem youngsters. In no way would I cast any blame on the parents of these youngsters, they must be hurting so much already.I have a 16 yr old boy and a younger one. The rules: No party unless I know the adults in charge, speak to them or meet with them and know they will be at home; I will pick up, or if it's a sleep over, they can call me if any problems. The older boy has a restricted licence and seems pretty responsible. He went once to a party with my car. Ii called the parents, said he would be driving himself and leaving at 9.45 PM. that was a whole 2 hours before the party was due to finish. He was home at 9.50. I have called the boys attention to the weekends events and they understand "It's not you I don't trust, it's the others".
Paul Lawrence
What I told my children when I emailed this article to them: something for you guys to think about. I guess it would not make much difference whether the parents knew or not. However "out of control situations" can be avoided and it is all about Journey Management and keeping an eye on any situation. Which of course applies to your Dad when he is trying to walk home to the house (Got mugged). I still have a jaw that doesn't open like it should. Anyway one needs to be careful and that is why I keep saying "Watch out for the Dogs" 2 legged and 4 legged.
Tim
One thing may help; raise the drinking age. 18 year olds have strong connections to 15 - 17 year olds, unlike 21 year olds who by this stage are at university and dont have a tendency to socialise with high school students.
Krazti (Christchurch)
i would just like to comment on the fact that people are blaming the parents. This is not the parents faults! I remember a few years ago when i was 16 if i wanted to go out i was going out and there was nothing my parents could do or say to stop me. These girls obviously had very good relationships with their parents as both had told them where they were going my parents would have had no idea! This is a tragedy and instead of blaming the parents blame the person responsible, the guy that was driving the car.
Robyn
On Saturday night, my 15-year-old daughter asked to go to a party but was denied. My reasons were that I did not know the location, I did not know the parents, I was not dropping her at the location of the party but another address and they were making their own way to the party, one member of her group was renown for walking the streets at night. To cut it short I did not feel she was safe. Her argument was they were her friends and she would be safe. She did not go, sulked for most of the night, but eventually spoke to us civilly before going to bed. In light of what happened in Christchurch and that 80 people turned up to her party (thanks to texting no doubt), even though allegedly there were no mishaps I am glad I made that decision. But does it make me feel virtuous? No! Because next time I may judge the situation to be safe and she may not be. Raising the drinking age would not have helped in this situation, the alleged driver was 22. However I agree with raising the drinking age and therefore raising the tolerance levels. My 15 year old was being pressured to drink at 14. We allow her to drink at home now she is 15, not because we want her to, but to educate her in how to handle alcohol and so she doesn't feel the need to drink behind our backs and drink to excess. Hosts of parties are vulnerable also. My university son had a party recently where people walked in off the street and despite items being locked away things were stolen, they even broke into a locked bedroom with people sleeping in it and stole a computer and handbag. I am also sure it is no coincidence that 2 weeks later their house was burgled again. I have hosted parties for my children in the past, no more, even though strict rules were set down, drugs were still evident, too much alcohol was consumed and parents of 15 and 16 years olds delivered more alcohol to these already drunk kids, people gate crashed. The answers are not simple, but they do lie with the standard of our parenting and unfortunately the standards of others parenting which is often not wise.
Matt
You are always going to have a hard time stopping your teenage son or daughter from going off to parties, drinking and socialising with their friends. Instead of parents telling their children they can't do these things (which will make it worse), they should educate them better on the importance of not driving while under the influence of alcohol, keeping off the road, walking away from confrontations etc. The majority of these kids are 'good kids', and their fun shouldn't be ruined by a few 'bad apples'. Not letting your kid go out at night is seriously not the right idea. Wouldn't you rather your kid was honest with you, so you actually know where they were? Because if you set all these ground rules down, they're never going to be honest with you and that's how it is. It's all about educating them.
Cathie
As far as I am concerned - the "do-gooders" in this society should stand up and be counted. It is because of their "righteous" interference parents, teachers etc have no rights to discipline anymore. A party of over 300 revelers is hard enough to control, but when the majority of them were 16+ year olds - my questions are simple: 1. Where were the Adults supervising security at this party? Are you honestly telling me there were no Adults present? 2. Why were the authorities not called sooner to shut the party down? Who cares if the party holders threw a tantrum - would have saved 2 precious lives! 3. And lastly - why blame the authorities after the fact? Everyone loves to blame someone - why keep blaming the police - why don't people learn to take responsibility for what happens in their families and stop passing the buck. One day there may be no authorites - then who will they blame?
Dylan
What ridiculous comments, how does 2 16 year olds being killed through no fault of their own mean that young people need to be better supervised or that their parents were the ones in the wrong. Correct me if I am wrong but it was a 22-year-old adult who was arrested. How about instead of knee jerk reactions people actually sat down and thought about what really occurred. These poor kids were intelligent enough to realise that it wasn't a situation that they wanted to be in and as such were
