KEY POINTS:
Here is an earlier selection of Your Views:
Kevin McKenna
Whilst I don't hold to Brian Tamaki's views on most things, he is right to protest H Clark's attempt to diminish / vanish NZs Judeo/Christian heritage, and to demand a statement that this is a Christian nation. Don't fall for her sidestepping by saying "NZ does not have a state religion." We all know that. But we do have a rich heritage of law and values that stem from centuries of following established Judeo/Christian principles. Hence we are a Christian nation. Once that is denied then what will become of us. If she gets away with this then NZ will pay for it.Christianity allows for freedoms of all sorts. There is no religious persecution in this country because of our Judeo/Christian heritage. Muslims and Hindus et al are free to worship as they wish. But do you honestly believe that if ever Islam (or for that matter Hinduism) become the majority then we would have religious freedom? Christians are persecuted to the death daily in Muslim and Hindu countries.And would women be better off in such a society? If you think so then you are deluded.Brian Tamaki is not the issue Things like "religious diversity", multiculturalism, the Alliance of Civilisations and postmodern pluralism all sound tempting to this PC God hating world. But what are the consequences: spiritual blindness, moral corruption, cultural decay, bondage to lust and cravings, an epidemic of depression and hopelessness, rebellious children, and a growing hatred for bible believing Christianity. While the Bible warns us this will happen, it also offers wonderful hope:"...in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God... From such people turn away! ...all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned..." 2 Timothy 3:1-14
"Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods, but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit. Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate. saith the Lord. For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water." Jeremiah 2: 11-13
Tazza
While I have reserves about Mr Tamaki I must say this time I salute him and he is a stand out Christian who shames the main stream churches in this instance. I grew up in this country singing hymns at Tauranga Boy College assembly along with prayers and enjoying a Christian environment. Under the wish washy arrangement with Clark and her mob of anti Christian politicians we have the new NZ that embraces any old religion in the pursuit of votes and the promotion of weakening this Nation by stealth and of late by dictatorial socialist directives and policy. Congrats Mr Tamaki you are a fine example of what a Christian ought to be and all strength to you this time around.
Norm from The North
Religion has been the cause of wars and strife since the beginning of time. We certainly don't need any in NZ politics. We're ruled by a bunch of nutters now and look what a mess we're in.
Jake (Auckland)
New Zealand is a free country. We have the right to personally decide what we believe. Brian Tamaki is threatening our freedom by suggesting we should all be binded to one religion. I am a New Zealander and not a Christian...does that make me weird? No, it doesn't, because as the wonderful and intelligent Helen Clark rightly said, it is extremely rare for a country to have a state religion! Tamaki needs to stick to his day job, because if he is an ambassador for religion, he will scare everyone away!
Andreas
New Zealand is a free and democratic country which should certainly not be tarnished with any religious association. We should be proud of this secular state. It is its secular and non-religious nature that sets is apart from the pariah states of the world e.g. - Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan and United States of America.
JS
I have a better idea. since religion is so divisive and increasingly irrelevant in this day and age, lets ban them all!
Matt (Auckland)
It is interesting how much rubbish people talk about the fact that courageous Christians make their way to Waitangi to make a stand for Christianity in New Zealand. And it is quite offensive too to the "not-committed-to-anything-type" of persons in this country. Tolerance means "doing nothing" against the evil road we are facing, which we are forced into by a government of unbelievers and hypocrites. They only look at their selfish interests. It is easier to weaken the laws and let in all kind of believes as long they vote for a political party. But who cares about this country as long people only seek to get the most out of it? Where is the spirit of the founders of this nation? Every people deserve their government. We made the wrong choice and kept too long silent. Stop to think from legislation to legislation, think about our next generation. Stand up together for Jesus Christ in this country. It is not a question of denominations. When do you wake up and face reality Christian Brothers and Sisters? Well and obviously many other readers even don't know that the most social systems on this planet were founded and established by Christians.
Kate
I am proud to have joined the protest at Waitangi to stand up for New Zealand's Christian heritage.
The whole statement that New Zealand has no official religion is rubbish. Over half the country ticked an affiliation with Christianity at the last census. Less than 60,000 ticked the Islam box and less than that ticked the Hindu box. Christianity is the overwhelming majority in terms of New Zealanders religion of choice. Lets make that official.
Chris
I can't help but laugh. People sound like, if Destiny gets their way, everyone will be forced to go to church and tithe.Establishing an official religion doesn't mean that you become a communist country. It just means that, Christianity for example, it recognised as the historical main religion. Rugby is our national sport - does that mean that Netball, soccer, tennis, golf and all other sports are outlawed? The Kiwi is our national bird - does that mean we shoot any other bird that is not a kiwi? Kiwifruit and Kumara are some of our national foods - do we uproot all other fruit and vegetables? The Maori are recognised as our official indigenous people - do we rid ourselves of all other nationalities? Brian Tamaki is not suggesting that Christianity be forced down people's throats. He's merely saying that Christianity should be recognised as this country's official religion. After all, our flag was designed by a Christian, our parent country is Christian, our national anthem is Christian and we call New Zealand "GodZone".
Dmgold
It concerns me that Helen Clark as the Prime Minister of NZ is actively pushing NZ down the
same failed multi cultural path that so many European countries are now suffering from. NZ is rooted in a liberal and pluralistic Judeo Christian culture, our laws pertaining to race relations, women's rights, right and wrong are all derived from this. There is nothing stopping a minority culture from practising their religious or cultural beliefs and rites as long as they do not infringe upon our accepted values that have evolved over the last 200 years. No to honour killings, No to Polygamy, no tominority victim hood. If those minorities are not happy with NZ culture they can easily find a home on this planet that is already embracing their culture, why change ours?
Wellington
Star, you've missed the entire point of the stand. The stand was based at the government producing a statement pronouncing us religiously diverse. Not a personal go at people of another faith.
Rich (North Shore)
I support the Christian viewpoint. Our laws come from basic Christian beliefs. That should tell you where our New Zealand religious heritage comes from.
Wayne (Sanson)
Helen is laying down her law again from a Marxist perspective and who seems to care? Christianity is the most predominant religion in N.Z.(fact) Our nation was founded on bible principles and was one of the most envied nations on earth because of how that gave us purpose and dignity unlike now with immoral breakdown that now has N.Z, imploding with appalling and sickening destructive statistics. Our Nation is lost and confused thanks to Leaders like Helen Clark.
Ian
God help us all if Destiny Church and or Brian Tamaki ever gains any political power here in NZ ! I think New Zealanders are much too intelligent for that to ever happen.
It is obvious that the only reason he and his cohorts have set up the Destiny Church is to collect the ten per cent tithing from his followers.
Andrew
For a country with no official religion we do seem to have a lot of holidays based on the Christian faith. Time to get rid of the Easter holidays and Christmas?
Auckland
Regardless of who's right or wrong, I think it's laughable that Helen Clark, a self confessed "agnostic" should be attending an Inter-Faith meeting.
Aaron
Funny that "bishop" Tamaki talks about these foreign influences when Chritianity itself is a foreign influence.New Zealand has always been a secular state and this will no doubt continue as the numbers who have no religion continue to increase with every census.
Peter
Bishop(?) Brian Tamaki doesn't seem to like anyone who doesn't share his beliefs on family, religion and sexuality. I thought that the bible says something about tolerance- this is something that Tamaki obviously doesn't have otherwise he would be more tolerant to others beliefs and views. How can Christianity be the official religion of the state when we have a nonsecular education system?!
CHCH
I think people should just be entitled to their own beliefs if your Christian sweet, Muslim sweet. There's no reason to make us have a state religion, Why?
Auckland
Brian Tamaki talks of protecting New Zealand from Religious fanaticism. He is one of those fanatic's - they may call themselves Christian, but they certainly don't represent me or my views. I am a true blu New Zealander, 4th generalation hailing from England. I do not see why we need to have a 'national' religion - why can't people be themselves and live by the laws of this land.
Jaron (Auckland)
Firstly Christianity is not a religion. It's a way of life. It's about knowing Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. Jesus is alive and lives in us through the Holy Spirit. Secondly I've been through a fair bit in life and I know that without God on my side I wouldn't have been able to come out of my troubles a stronger person. I do not believe NZ should adopt Christianity as a State "Religion" because as a Christian myself the ridiculous laws and bills allowed to pass in Parliament are not nothing I would stand for (e.g. legalising prostitution).
cP (Auckland)
I'm not sure how New Zealand can claim to not have a state religion when Easter and Christmas are paid statutory holidays. These are a Christian invention and other religions don't have state recognition of their holy days.
Amariah
Would 'Bishop' Tamaki have nonconformists not be able to take any public office as the Christians did in the 1700s? Civil rights and to able to worship or not is the backbone of this country. Stick to your secular views Helen, however, The 'Bishop' has had his say, which is also his right. We just don't have to agree with it and we certainly don't need a law of discrimination.
Ian Cunningham
If New Zealand were to have a state religion, which one would it be? In England the Church of England is the state religion. Which means their Bishops get guaranteed seats in the Legislature (House of Lords) and are instrumental in lawmaking. The CofE also gets many other benefits including tax breaks.
If there were a state religion I imagine it would be Anglican and would then be the Church of New Zealand. Destiny Church would still not be part of a state religion whatever self-appointed Bishop Tamaki thinks.
North Shore
Having attended, out of curiosity, a number of the Destiny Church's services and hearing them criticise other Christian beliefs and brand them as fundamentally wrong, and now hearing that Destiny now calls for a "collective" Christian state, smacks hypocrisy to me.
Maori boy
I may not agree with the egomaniac Brian Tamaki and his band of blind brainwashed supporters, but that is the price of true democracy, something unseen in religious zealot states such as Iran, Israel and yes, the USA. It does not surprise me to see Titewhai Harawera and her "rent a protest" mob jump on the Destiny church bandwagon. How dare that woman speak on my behalf. Titewhai, if you reading, distance yourself from this ironic cause before you lose whatever crumbs of credibility you have left. It is possible and far preferable to have a secular country where a majority religion and government can still co-habitate, like Turkey, without religion dictating government policy. Luckily for us, so far this includes NZ. Tamaki and his cable tv religion may not be as extremist as Al-Quaeda but their fire and brimstone rhetoric and hate are very similar and equally offensive. Separating religion and politics is simply good democratic governance. This time Helen Clark is right. Yes, I believe in God, but thats my business and I dont see why anyone else should be forced to share my views. Whatever happened to Christian principles of tolerance and loving your neighbors?
Natann
I don't think Christianity became our State Religion because in 1840 it wasn't the religion of the majority of people here.
Dolly
No we do not need any state religion in New Zealand. New Zealanders need to be free to enjoy their religious beliefs without interference from the state, as long as those beliefs do not in any way oppose the laws of the land. If we did have Christianity as the state religion, would that mean that Destiny Church could be banned? Calling their group Christian does not conceal the fact that this is a cult which seems to exist mainly for the financial enrichment of the leadership.
Oz
To Deborah Dougherty. No, our laws are clearly not founded on the ten commandments. First of all there are two different sets of ten commandments in the Bible. (Exodus 20 and Exodus 34) Deborah would know that if she were a 'true christian' the most popular set of ten commandments (Exodus 20) have almost no basis in law. Aside from not killing and not stealing which we can hardly give Christianity credit for due to them having been in just about every non-Christian culture in history, the others have no relation to the laws of this country. It is not illegal to work on Sunday, it is not illegal to commit adultery, it is not illegal to worship a different god. It is not illegal to covet your neighbours ass. It is not illegal to lie (in most situations). It is not illegal to dishonour your father and mother. The bibles suggested punishment for breaking any of these commandments is death by stoning. Something which is illegal in this country.
pCb (Auckland)
Tolerance should be a two way street - if my family lived in the Middle East would we be allowed to continue on with our life as we do here (i.e. wear whatever clothes we want and eat / drink as we do here)? Don't think so. Clark is laughing at the country she leads when she is willing to be respectful of (non Christian) religions but will not treat the current leader of the Church of England with the same respect. Such double standards can easily be seen as weakness.
Mr T (Tauranga)
Brian Tamaki and his christian ilk are dangerous idiots who want us all to think the same. Please, Destiny church and the like, go away and worship whoever you want to worship in privacy but don't dare ram it down others throats.
Dwayne
Where will the state attend church? What will happen to the state's soul when it dies? Should the state take the day off on Sundays?
Paul (Wellywood)
I certainly dont agree with Tamaki. Everyone has the choice to their own religions. And if thats the attitude of a Christian Leader these days, perhaps he should read the history of the crusades and how much damage that caused. The only problem I see with our multi-cultural society is when religion affects the course of justice, namely through clothing that must be worn. I find this offensive, we grant them the ability to live in this country, I dont mind them praying to whoever they like but they must act like they want to be in New Zealand by blending in with society instead of hiding behind Burqas.
David G
NZ should not have a state religion, though our strongly Christian heritage should be respected. Labour has glibly flown in the face of this heritage too many times and will pay the price soon enough. As just as we don't need a state religion, we don't need a newspaper like the Herald stirring up muck by acting as a mouthpiece for Brian Tamaki to spout his religious fascism. Shame on you Herald.
Bill
As an atheist, what is more important to me is freedom from religion. The likes of 'Bishop' Tamaki certainly wouldn't want me to have that freedom.
DT
Who does Brian Tamaki think he is? Some sort of Saint or something, why can't he and his followers just worship God and all his creations like every other Christian in this country, with a little dignity and humility. What a showboat, my father is a Reverend and has been for the last 21 years and he and my mother are the most humble people I know bias aside. When will the Brian Tamaki's of this world stop with all the madness.
Tane Wilton
Let's make a couple of things clear. Firstly, Helen Clark has not just proclaimed that NZ has no state religion, she is simply stating the fact that we don't and never have. Secondly, the preamble to the statement on religious diversity clearly pays tribute to the Christian heritage of NZ and the still largely Christian makeup of the peoples of NZ. This is a beatup over nothing, and everyone who's buying into it is falling for the spin of that greasy charlatan Brian Tamaki. NZ, you're better than this.
Rouble (welly)
I cant believe what i am reading. We have more biggots in our country then i was aware of. In no way should the state be involved in religion. We live in a free country where we all have the chance to say our bit (like this forum) and practise what ever religion we so choose. NZ is 100 per cent secular. I dont believe in religion as it is a man made construct.I do however believe in a god. To hear that Christianity is New Zealand's religion is not true.It was bought here by a number of different missionaries who encouraged Maori /Pakeha to accept and believe in it, just as citizens in the modern world in New Zealand should accept that other people are different have different religious beliefs. It is what makes NZ a great place, we are diverse, we have many cultures and religions and in general we can all get along nicely and that is how it should be. Is it beyond some people to accept other people regardless of their skin colour, political or religious beliefs. If not then soon, I guess, we will start seeing hate crimes reminiscent of those across the ditch.
Sue (Hauraki)
Let's get a few facts straight. The original and still current 'settlers' of these islands were not Christians. The second wave of settlers to this land were; Christian, Buddhists, Hindu, Moslems all arriving around the same time frame and living side by side ever since.If we are to base our current culture on a religious basis based on a population basis let's consider it to be Judaism. Without the old testament and one well known Jewish prophet we would not have the new testament to practice wisely or unwisely. These fundamental prats are a bunch of ignorant, violent fools. They mix and match their cultural heritage and so called Christian fervor to suit themselves, their political and no doubt commercial desires. Why is the media giving such outfits airplay? Surely we have far more important things to acknowledge. Christian! They do not know the meaning of the term let alone practice it.
Mike
Maybe its just me but why is it that every time I see Brian out on his latest photo opportunity his followers have a certain look about them. Intelligent, Open minded and confident are not words one would use to describe them, on the other hand Brian you look fantastic and your 'religion' is doing wonders for you. I say lets make NZ a Destiny state and we can all enjoy the 'Rewards' keep up the good work mate.I wonder if Destiny has a Kiwisaver plan in place.
Anne (Auckland)
Ian Wishart in Eve's Bite has it right indeed! This controversy is about Clark & Co not wanting any value system which defines 'decent' behaviour. NZ has always been a free society where everyone has the right to worship as they see fit. But the country is based on Judeao-Christian principles and I,for one, choose that it stay that way. For those who believe that human beings are born with a sense of right and wrong which determines their behaviour, I suggest they learn even a little about psychology - starting with the fact that the majority of people will kill on the command of an authority figure in a controlled environment for spelling a word wrong - a consistent result in northern and southern hemisphere western society. Every society has to have a value system to survive let alone thrive. We could choose any of them but our society is based on Christianity and, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! The only problems we are currently having is the result of denying God, not obeying him. I support Brian Tamaki's acknowledgement and glorification of Him (though not a Destiny member)and wonder where the other churches are!
Ross
State religion! Whatever kind of daft idea is that? Imagine...it's the very last thing we need. Even more so if self-appointed "Bishop" Tamaki is leading it.
Arron
State religion is never a good thing. For example, look at the extremes of the Catholic church in their persecution of Christians, or the corruption and influence of the Mormons in Utah. However, NZ must stop pandering to other religions, in particular Islam in its fundamental form should not be tolerated in a civilised society. As for Maori religions, they have no foundation, worshipping a river or mountain is ridiculous and should never be taught in schools.
Jack
It says in Brian's bible somewhere that we should beware of false profits. Self-appointed bishop Brian is one of those. Hop on your Harley and ride off into the sunset Brian, or go and have a look at Iran and other such countries with a state appointed religion.
Daniel
It is surprising to see all this uproar from so-called Christians. Little then do they understand the concepts of "to go humbly" and "to go in peace". Religion is not the cause of wars, it is extremist people that use their religion as a right to cause wars. Instead of all the fighting, do as Mother Theresa did - I'd like to hear anyone complain about the life she lead.
David
Sorry...we need a state religion why exactly? How does religion add value to NZ society? It certainly doesn't add any moral or ethical value. In fact some would suggest the greater the reliosity of a community the greater the moral and behavioural problems. Science continues to erode the basis of religious belief to the point that we may as well worship Helen Clark, it would do as much good as worshipping a Christian God or Allah or Richie McCaw. "A professorship of theology should have no place in our institution" Thomas Jefferson.
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