KEY POINTS:
Jenny
Apparently schools do test childrens literacy standards but they dont always let the parents know the results. I had a dyslexic child who never achieved at school. Left with no formal qualifications. I had him tested outside the school and tutored at my own expense. The schools only help the underachievers if you make a nuisance of yourself, Not once when problems first arise but every new year and with every new teacher!. Money is always used as an excuse but I suspect inadequate communication is a factor as well.
Elsa Forti-Barsi
All schools already do national testing in the forms of PAT, Australian tests, STAR tests etc and have done so for years. The results of each test are used to isolate any particular problem which the student may have and then programmes can be devised and set in place to rectify these. Why add more? The burden is already heavy.
Pat
Testing is a must. There must be an end to pupils exiting the schools unable to read or write...and I'm afraid it does happen. Have to tighten up. Teachers aren't picking up the failures in all cases.
George Hansen
Testing should most definitely be carried out at Primary School. It is very disconcerting to see so many children, especially Maori children, coming out of school unable to read, write or do maths. Presently it doesn't matter if a child cannot achieve required levels, he/she is automatically put up into the next year. I believe testing should occur and that child should not be allowed to move on until they can achieve the level of reading, writing or maths that is required.
Pete Coleman
It is amazing just how good the National Party are at reinventing the wheel. Indeed, I can see not one thing new in their announcement today from what schools are already doing - the only sad part is that it has taken so long for the National Party to catch up. I will also be looking closely at what they have to say about publishing the results as National have long harboured a desire to make education about competition. Publishing of students scores is all part of their larger plan to privatise our schools - something that should alarm everyone.
Albert
Tests in term of indication on how our kids doing is "a must". Tests in term of creating grades crazy parents and students "no". I fully support the idea of testing in primary school only twice a year, mid term and end of year no more. This will help parents and teacher to support those struggling children, not to achieve A grade but to "identify the failure reasons ie: environment, family, health or studying method is not suitable". This will help the teachers to try and help the parents and the children to find the problem and address it. We all learn differently and the main reason we all goes to school because we trust the teachers able to help us to find a way to learn and expand our knowledge and feed the mind not simply score A+++. I comes from a Asian country. They so focus on grades and we all had to study 5 subjects from the age 7 and 8 subjects from the age of 13. That was cruel and pointless but it did encourage children to try harder not simply say oh well, I will get there anyway. Here in NZ we were given way too much freedom and choices and if you are failing current system simply say, Don't worry you still pass because we lower the education standard. This is stupid too. If goverment want to make this work labour or National. They should invest a fact finding mission around the world and incorporate the successful methods from Western and Eastern culture. After all we are becoming a multi-cultural society.
Jo
Teachers know the children that need more assistance to keep up with their peers, what is lacking are the necessary resources and time to address the issues. National is offering nothing to assist with this.
Kate
Why not go all the way and give payment by results? This happened in UK in the early years of schools. Teachers were only paid for those children who could read write and do arithmetic. Inspectors came and tested each pupil annually. Bah, humbug, don't let's go back.Let us go forward and provide free education for all.
Paula
Excellent idea!! Maybe now my childrens' school can focus on classroom learning and spend less time on fundraising/whanau days/trips/learning how to be PC etc etc....
Mac Stevenson
What is the big deal??. Primary school children are already tested against national standards in a range of curriculum area and especially the basics.In reality in some schools testing has taken over from teaching and learning.
MJC
Teachers can already identify children who are "behind" and could use extra help (or a different approach). Therefore testing to identify them would be redundant and a waste of money. What is needed is more support to help these children. How to provide that support is the real question. More testing won't help. It will just divert teacher time and other school resources away from providing the help needed.
Grant Diggle
Its a disgrace if children are not being tested now. How does a teacher know if a child has achieved the required level of understanding? No wonder we have a generation who cant read write and add up And thats the present teachers under the age 45 as a result of 30 years of willful neglect by various failed governments and their civil service lackeys.
NeillR
Good on John Key for trying to take on another sacred cow, but as usual all we get are the usual bleats and moans from teachers and bureaucrats about how it won't work, or "we're already doing it". In the meantime, ever increasing numbers of students are leaving school without the basic ability to read or write.
Brian
Yes, entirely the right thing to do. I'm very thankful I was tested through all my school years - otherwise I wouldn't know my strengths and I wouldn't be where I am today.The alternative's unthinkable, as Steve Alexander has already said, "For too long now the education system has given prizes to fat kids who come last in sporting events to make them feel better". Too sad but too true.
Mary
Definitely. This will allow primary schools to measure how children are managing and coping with subjects and if need be, remedial work issued to bring the pupil up to the required level. Certain standards must be set and achieved by every primary school pupil if they are to move ahead. nfortunately, political correctness has prevented these measures being implemented for fear of offending and this is the major cause of young people leaving school with little or no reading, writing or basic maths skills. It is the duty of the government with no expense spared, to implement a set of strict measures from primary school level onwards, if we are to produce well educated, well adjusted, positive and productive adults who are able to contribute to society in every way.
Jacky
Surely as a trained professional, a NZ qualified primary school teacher should be able to tell me (the parent) how my child is doing compared with himself, not his peers. If they are good at their job they will see the child as an individual and understand that all children learn differently. It's bad enough at high school with NCEA expecting round pegs to fit square holes, why place this extra unnecessary burden on already over-extended teachers?
Ollie
I am 22 now, but I remember at primary school we used to have achievement tests every now and then.. PTA tests or something like that? There was one for maths, one for spelling, reading comprehension etc. Tests will be useful at any level because they enable parents and teachers alike to have a better grasp of where kids are at academically, and if there are areas of specific weakness (there always are), these can be corrected earlier on in the childs educational path. There were way too many non-achievers in my age group by the time I got to high school, it was a little sad.
Colin England
From reading the story, it seems obvious that all National want to do is take credit for something that's already being done. In their own terms, this would be theft of intellectual property which I'm fairly sure is something they've said is against any moral principal. We could, of course, give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they just didn't know that these things were already happening. Either way it doesn't give much confidence in their ability to govern.
Andrew Atkin
Children should be tested so that parents can get some idea of what their kids are learning, but parents should only respond to the tests as an indicative measure. By nature, kids can learn to read perfectly well at all different ages. The idea that kids should all learn to read from the age of about 5 is an unfounded cultural-invention, probably designed to keep our massive educational establishment well-employed. The reader might want to do a Google search on Sudbury Valley School. This is an American school where the kids learn literacy and numeracy when they personally ready to, and also in their own way. Interestingly, every kid that goes there learns to read and do maths perfectly well, though often at very different ages. Compared to the totality of your childs development, literacy and numeracy really are (or should be) minor developmental milestones. So often we make the acquisition of these skills so hard, and only because of our meaningless and unnecessary preoccupation with rigid timeline-based education.
Allan
This begs the question: Why hasn't this sort of thing been in place for many decades, and which PC fanatics are going to cause this to fall on its face? I can just imagine people being accused of discrimination over this.
Murray M
Way to go! We need to stop the dumbing down of our education and move from participation to achievement. Its no wonder more and more schools are turning to Cambridge examinations. Go National.
Sharlene
Who sets the benchmarks in the first place? A benchmark cannot be set until an entire evaluation of the subject has been made and measured. Once the BM is set, further testing should not be necessary; at this stage action should be taken to assist kiddies up from below the BM.
Al Bundy
I am pleased to see National is making primary education a priority, but I don't feel they are going far enough. It seemed my primary education consisted almost entirely of spashing dye on paper, attending "singing assemblies", being forced to sit through cultural activites, or watching "The Princess Bride" over and over. I was an incredibly bored child. With the exception of an advanced English class, I was given nothing to extend by knowledge. Primary school as far as I was concerned was there to meet the legal requirement that I attended school. I actually learnt almost nothing there, instead being taught most of what I did learn during those years at home or from science shows on television.
Our young years are the best years for learning, and I feel that I was let down by the system. I will never reach the potential I could have, because those years were wasted on worthless activities. How many children today can do basic mathematics in their head, such as add up their shopping total as they shop, or calculate the price after a percentage is added/discounted? Very, very few, yet my parents and grandparents were taught those basic skills at a much younger age, and are much better at those sort of simple tasks, that anybody should be able to master if properly taught. The endless cycle of lowering standards when students don't achieve needs to stop. Students need to be made to achieve the standards, and stopped from progressing if they do not. When I went to high school, many of the students in my class (a top stream class!) had difficulty with basic mathematics such as 3x+5=20 (find x). Basic things like that should have been covered long before the age of 13.
Another issue that needs addressing is teachers. While I had a few good teachers at school, many weren't very good at all, particularly in primary/intermediate. Of the young people I have known who have gone in to teaching, none have been particularly bright at all. These are not the sort of people who should be teaching. Teachers should have performance based pay, to encourage achievement, not be given a base salary with a guaranteed increase based on the length of time they teach.
Ez
Ithink this is a complete waste of resources... Focus should be on a rounded education. Also they could go into teaching a wider range of skills... ie languages from a young age!
Tom Vavasour
They already are! National's promising to slightly formalise what is already being done. If your kids teacher is any good you will already be getting this information. The perfect political promise: repackage what is already happening to make it seem like it isn't. Of course there would be no mileage in the promise if some media didn't then swallow the press release hook, line, and sinker.
Gavin Clunie
Yes I think kids should be tested at school so the parents can know if their children are up to speed,if they do not get tested how would you know if there is a bad teacher at the school, remember ,there are no bad students just bad teachers.
Liam
I have found that my children have been well educated and monitored through their primary school years. I believe the focus in the primary school years needs to as much on teaching children how to learn and think for themselves. The basics can be taught in many ways without overburdening both child and teacher with regular tests. We received regular reports on how they were progressing on standard curriculum topics and also how there social skills were developing. I think the primary system works very well. Now the secondary schools under NCEA, well that is another matter and it is a complete shambles and as my children head into this mess I am very concerned. At least National are trying to reflect the need in the community and putting up solutions for debate. Labour just tell us what is supposedly good for us and refuse to listen to the views of the vast majority when it differs from their own.
Robin
Children are already tested. A good teacher constantly checks the progress of his/her pupils to see how they are doing and to adjust the teaching/learning programme to suit their needs. The problem is that there are many teachers who are not meeting the needs of children and the expectations of parents. This is either because of incompetence by themselves or their leaders or because of ignorance or because their tests are not valid and reliable. National tests would provide good quality information in the public domain about how pupils are progressing. Good teachers have nothing to fear. The tools are already there - AssTLe for example, 6 year net. Not only should children be tested, but parents must be given good information about the progress of their children and the community must be given good quality information about the schools performance. All the research indicates that the biggest difference in children's education takes place at the younger end of the scale. As they get older, it is a law of diminishing returns. By the time they reach high school it is all but impossible to influence their ability in literacy and numeracy. That being the case, then it is critical that good quality data about children's achievement, or lack thereof, is identified as soon as possible and that parents are fully informed about their children. Go National...
Heather
We already do this at most primary schools and those schools who ERO says do not will be getting support to do so as well. Teachers in our school are able to share with parents where children are in their learning in very specific ways (gained from a variety of assessments most of which are norm referenced against NZ students) and what the next step in their learning is. Children are the most important part of this process and they receive feedback as part of the learning process so they can measure their progress and discuss with their fellow learners, their teachers and their parents what learning is next and what that will look like. We do not need any more testing thank you. It is happening well and our parents love coming to student led conferences where children from 5 to 13 years of age share samples of their work, assessments and evaluations and discuss their learning with their parents and teachers. The focus on the student is key as they are the drivers of their learning. Don't give us anything else, but support us in schools to do the task that we are already doing with resources for this time consuming activity.
A
I am a certified ESOL teacher currently teaching children aged 9-12 in South Korea, probably the most test obsessed country in the world. I work in an academic English hagwon which is a kind of private school students, whose parents can afford it, go to after their regular school. Last week my advanced classes discussed testing in schools and how they felt about it. At my kind of hagwon, the Korean teacher tests them daily and weekly. Their regular schools test at differing intervals from three times a year to as frequently as once a month.
As a teacher, it is quite harrowing on weekly test days to see these usually bright, happy kids turn into emotional train wrecks. Upon asking them how they felt about the tests in their regular schools, most said much the same except worse. Many fear their parent's reactions to anything less than an "A" and they desperately don't want to disappoint them. They also told me that they felt the time spent preparing and doing tests meant they had little time to do much actual learning (generally they prepare for three weeks before quarterly tests). They get precious little time to think about, process or experience ideas and instead become carbon copy, memorisation units. The trade offs for this intensive kind of testing are the reduction in actual learning time and the battle for resources between testing and as one other person wrote, "well rounded teaching".
These kids have the natural creativeness and curiosity of children everywhere but it gets lost in the endless grind they face. Most of them never even have time to play during the day. By middle school, they are simply overwhelmed and turn into classroom zombies with little or no energy. Oh, and let's not forget the high suicide rate in children. Then there's the whole thing with the mothers. If little Kim does badly on his tests, it's not because he's a little boy who has too much pent up energy to sit still long enough to study. No, it's because the teacher is a bad teacher - according to the parents.
I know this is an extreme example in comparison to New Zealand but I find the thought of stepping onto this treadmill by introducing regular testing for comparative assessment of primary level children to be obnoxious at best. It is a terrible first step on a path that values tests scores over learning, experiencing, creativity and children being children.
I only just said to a foreign colleague last week, "Thank God my county isn't like this." What a joke. The one thing that I have learned here (and many others I've spoken to from English speaking countries around the world agree) is to truly let children be children and to value them for that. There is always time for tests later but your child will never get to be a child again.
Linda Evans
Although it may seem like a good idea, which I think it is, surely the government should be focusing on getting this NCEA system sorted and trusted by parents before they try to introduce another form of testing? Just a thought.
Jase
Hell yeah, bring on the testing. I firmly believe that a lor of my friends at high school who had huge difficulties with literacy would've greatly benefited for having this picked up at a much earlier age before it got to the stage where it was almost too late.
Paul Davey
Another top idea from our next Government. I want to see all schools accountable for the education of NZ's future. The only way to truly measure that accountability is to quantatively test it. Those that don't stack up will be identified and appropriate action can be taken to rectify the underperformance.
Danc
Hey now parents can't spank the child for not studying and getting low marks. So why not. Do we really believe that IQ and intelligence is a "behavioural trait" rather than something were born with. Something that can be "remedied". Maybe teachers will focus on the smart kids and ignore the "weak-minded". Or should they focus on the lower scoring kids to ensure all children are equally mediocre? Make sure the next generation has no tall poppies. Or should they focus on all kids - but then they'd need to work more hours and teachers will never do that.
Rashid
Yes and I think it is a must. The basics needs to be known by the children in Primary to excel in Secondary ( Because the secondary is the foundation for their higher studies). If the primary students start learning the basics in secondary then they are already lagging behind. As a result they will be always lagging behind. Net Outcome: drop out.
Bazza
I dun't thimk kids should bee test at primay levl. I got thru ok.
Sharon
Primary school kids get tested enough, and certainly don't need more. They get standard testing plus New South Wales testing as well to assess progress. Teachers know well enough if kids are keeping up or not as teachers have detailed curriculum guidelines on what they need to achieve. It's the next step that needs the (usually short) resources. Mr Key should not fiddle while New Zealand goes down the tube!
Tracy Page
Full marks to John Key and National for this policy. (And I'm talking a grade and not a "pass with merit") I am so over these PC reports that come home from primary school which tell me absolutely nothing about my child's progress. School reports should be like Plunket books, plotting your child's development, so you can see their personal progress but including a chart that references the national averages for age and year.But don't anyone tell Helen, informed parents and educated children are sure to be a certain threat to her regime.
Angela
Quote: "For too long now the education system has given prizes to fat kids who come last in sporting events to make them feel better about themselves." Really Steve? I remember being ridiculed, humiliated and put aside as not worth the effort rather than rewarded for any of my 'fat failings', especially in the sporting arena. As for my opinion on these proposed rules: While there is certainly some dangerous ground involved (children being stereotyped based on their results, increased pressure on teachers and parents, increased opportunity for intellectual bullying) if the ground work is set correctly the benefits would far outweigh the negatives. Children would be more assured of an equal education, those providing the education will become more accountable for their actions (both teacher and parent alike) and children will also become more aware of the need to learn and be accountable for their own behaviour. I'm far from a National supporter, however I think used properly this would create a fantastic guideline in the primary school arena for intended learnings, help close the net on those children who too easily slip though the current system and finally, better identify those children who may suffer from learning disabilities or those on the flip side who require a higher level of learning.
Andrew
"Jader" is quite right. Our schools should prepare kids for the real world. However, this is exactly what they are designed to do, and wait for it do in fact do. They are designed to produce a class of systematised "vacant-minded" people who can fit into a modern corporate-culture professional world, which requires no real brains or talent at all. Dont be impressed by kids that can read, write and do maths - yes, these skills are important in themselves, but if that is all we have to show for years of brutal tedium at institutional school, then oh what a sorry failure it really is.
KF
Of course they should be tested, we sat SAT's in the 70's in primary school here. It needs to be brought back! We are tested every day as adults and it needs to be learnt at a young age. Stop this PC rubbish that seems to be so accepted in NZ.
Jader
I was tested extensively throughout my primary and elementary years although my schooling was done overseas. If we did not meet the benchmarks at the end of the year, we were kept back and made to repeat the year. Yes, there was pressure at the end of the year to perform well in the final tests, yes, there was pressure throughout the year to produce good results and apply the knowledge we were supposed to be learning. However, this prepared us for the real world and especially the huge changes expected in high school. I am proud to say that my generation was touted as having the "best education system in the world". My daughter is currently floating around at school with no adequate benchmark system and I am at a complete loss as to how to help her as there are no guidelines or clear expectations from the school or teachers. It seem pretty clear that the more we wrap our children in cotton wool and deny them the right to grow up to fit into the rigours of the real world, the more we churn out mindless, MTV generation, layabouts with their hands out for money and the inability to spell simple words. The education system is already in a poor state thanks to the lack of discipline and the complete disrespect for authority by the youth of today and who do we have to blame? Ourselves. For being overprotective, feeling sorry for the poor dears who may feel a little pressure at having to repeat the year because they might be emotionally scarred. I mean who really needs an education if it means you have to face real life and get your hands a little dirty?
Steve Alexander
How could that idea work in this PC country of ours? If pupils showed that they had talent in the areas suggested would they then be put in the same pool as those who aren't? For too long now the education system has given prizes to fat kids who come last in sporting events to make them feel better about themselves. Imagine what would happen if young Johnny had the highest academic learning capability at his school compared to young Hone who can't adjust to reading and writing. Would the education system then give the same test in Maori just to make Hone feel better or show better results. Leave the teaching to the teachers. If they want more money, give it to them. All they have to do is teach our children the subjects specified and target those who need help afterwards. Or is that too logical?
Bruce
A test is an excellent idea. I think they should be taught to read first before sitting it though.
Hazel
I thought this was already done and am horrified it isn't! When did this change as I know I was given tests before starting high school. Now I understand why children are struggling with college.
Ez
I think this is a complete waste of resources. Focus should be on a rounded education. Also they could go into teaching a wider range of skills ie languages from a young age!
Debbie
We already have very good testing systems at schools - Asttle for eg. The problem is although the teachers can identify children who are slipping behind, many schools are under resourced and can not find the extra money required to give these children the extra attention they need. Can politicians stop trying to dream up new ways of measuring our problems - can they please put more resources into solving them.
Carl
Yes the should there should be on set of marking rules appled theough out a childs schoolin years. This shour show in a per cent out of 100 (50/100) on haow the child is doing. Also ther should be the same applied to all schools to show their stats against other schools in that grade.
Barbs
My children's schools (one at primary and the other at intermediate) already do. Go National though!
Julia
I am currently living in Florida where FCAT testing is in place. Several of my friends are teachers and they hate the elementary school testing. Teachers are under pressure to ensure that test scores are the focus, not well rounded teaching. Children are under a great deal of stress at a very young age and not many get left behind if they do not test well. I think the costs of administering these tests would be better off invested in smaller class sizes and more resources to provide quality education all year long, not just test time.
G
Primary education is more critical than secondary. Primary provides the foundation for all future achievement. We currently have "compulsory education" but there does not seem to be any compulsion on students to learn. Taxpayers should expect value for money from the education system, particularly as we compulsorily pay tax and compulsorily must have our children educated. At the moment we see too many receiving a "free" education and undervaluing it.
Simon James
Is this the case of this politician working on a tiny bit of information gleaned from a disgruntled parent. Just how long has Mr Key been in the country? Childrens Reading and Mathematics levels (based on the New Zealand Curriculum) are readily available to all parents. All primary children's progress in Reading is measured several times per year with levelled running records, and the same is true for numeracy. And Mr Key, parents love to read that their children are a delight to teach because when teachers write that they mean it.
Avril
Yes, a very good idea. Earlier intervention in below-par students is what is needed to get earlier extra help.
