KEY POINTS:
Here are earlier Your Views:
Rex (Dargaville)
I think people are overlooking the positive impact that gangs can have on society. It may be easy for us to criticise them from behind our keyboards but one must remember that gang members are people too. Come on New Zealand keep it real, it is time to look at real solutions not just papering over the cracks. Banning gangs is not the answer.
Alex (Wellington)
We all have dreams to live, love and enjoy life to the fullest. To have any individual or group of individuals deny a young girl in her early years this basic human right is a monumental tragedy that deserves a monumental response. Come on NZers - get together and unite with a zero tolerance to acts of gangs. The best offence for gangs is a good defense, without political interference or cultural and social 'policy advisors' denying each our right to defend ourselves. Outlawing gangs is not the answer. Saying no to gang activities by using laws already available is the best solution going forward.
Rat
Ban all gangs they are losers..
Grant
Yes I think they should ban gangs all around New Zealand. But then you have to take a deep look at why do people join gangs. I think people who join gangs come from broken families. As a Maori myself I see in my people that a lot come from abused families who there parents are drinking ,taking drugs, gambling, sexual abuse etc oh and unemployment in small towns. So some of them join gangs because it is like a family. And I feel sorry for some of them because there is no direction for the young teenagers. That's why you see all these hip hop gangs. So it goes deeper than just banning gangs I feel that some of these teens and young ones should be put into the armed forces where they can start learn to respect themselves and other people etc.
Hemi
NZ's a wonderful country. Kiwis need to avoid the sick and twisted popular gang culture promoted by American rap music and videos. Kiwis are a million times too good for that garbage which, seems to be so readily available thanks to the internet, radio, and television. Acts of gang violence in NZ seem to be an ignorant, foolish, and insanely stupid attempt to imitate this worthless form of media. The way of life and culture in NZ is so superior, even though the standard of living may not be quite the same as the USA or other countries. Why do they fell the need to imitate this trash?
Geoff
Get rid of the gangs,there is no place for them. They are nothing but trouble and intimidation .For these scumbags it is all about being 'tough' and not backing down...a real outdated mentality.A waste of taxpayers money to keep them housed and fed. Ban the patches and give the police more power to disband them.
Will Freeman
I ask one question why does NZ society protect by law organizations [gangs] that have a well document rap sheet in organized crime? Not only does our "lefty emperor of tolerance" have no clothes but leaves those whom it espouses to protect to rape and ravage the defenseless amongst us. Our fear of confrontation and in particular the organized crime [gangs] amongst us is unhealthy and undermines our whole society. Ask any mother of a "P Addict" what hell is and then ask why we tolerate organised crime in any form?
Rotovegas girl
There are some individuals who do good in the community but when gangs let their pride take over they can be harmful to anyone that may look at them the `wrong` way. The majority of members are Maori and, being part Maori, there are traits we have as Maori to be strong have mana and take on a challenge. I think there are those today who abuse this privilege that once was looked on with respect is now being used to bully, control, abuse, be violent and to be a part of these groups means to be in control, be feared, be `staunch` to get respect in these groups and to be part of the group not an individual. So these groups think they are standing up for one another as whanau and encourage destructive behaviour to try to be a somebody because they lack so much self respect. Most of these people you will find have come from broken families and think no one understands them but their gang well. If you ask me I think gangs should be banned as people should be encouraged not to be afraid to speak out and be an `individual` and learn to stand on their own two feet! Instead of thinking they have to be part of a group to be a somebody. They are weak cowards. Just because you come from a broken family doesn`t mean you have to fall victim and take your frustrations out on innocent people who do you no harm! You`ve all got attitude problems and can`t control your anger so you harm others. You should be locked away! Who gives you the right to take another life? Get a life and grow up! Be men! Don`t blame anyone else for the way your life has turned out you are responsible for your own lives as you are now responsible for the innocent life you have taken. May they show you no mercy! You are nothing but boys who just want attention!
Gazza (Wellington)
What is NZ coming to, to say that our country is safe and a welcome for visitors is a joke. Visitors will be safer travelling to the Antarctica and face the wrath of seals then to travel in NZ as the gang problem sees to be getting out of hand. I realise that the police have there hands tied in what they can do and to do anything they need to go through various channels to be able to accomplish anything. When is our government going to give them power? Our jails are not a deterrent for these people. Maybe a exchange would be advisable eg for each gang member convicted, sent him to a Cambodian or to Turkey and do there sentence there on a exchange, that may sort these buggers out.
These gangs are prominently Maori and Pacific islanders. What a waste. Generally these people have a beautiful caring nature, it's mostly peer pressure and crap guidance from the senior members that influence others.
Kano
If police resources were focused on tracking, arresting, and hounding gang members instead of collecting revenue for Labour, gang members would look for an honest and decent job
Rachel
Outlawing gangs is never going to work - if a gang looks after its own, you could define a family as a gang, and that would be another step down the route of PC madness. However, you can crack down on social violence, drug dealing and other breaches of the contract we all undertake when we agree - one way or another - to be part of society. Why do we let these idiots walk away from the repercussions of their actions? Why aren't they quickly and quietly broken apart as we might a bunch of feuding five year olds? If they want to carry on like this on their own little island, that's great - give them the island and a knife each and leave them to it. However, instead, they choose to live in a wider social construct, and by doing so, take on the obligation of living by the rules they vote for in that society. If they don't want to live by the rules, I'm thinking the Highlands of Papua New Guinea might be appealing to them - kill anyone you want, deal in however many drugs you want... and risk being eaten by your neighbours. I don't agree with the chap who mentioned 1984 - I'm thinking more Lord of the Flies might fix the issue...
Majority Rule
The concept of civil liberties in New Zealand need not include the right for members of the public to form gangs such as "Black Power" or "Mongrel Mob" which are identifiable and accrue to any given patch or uniform. These organisations exist to perpetuate crime and should be made illegal, since there is no worthwhile basis to allowing these fringe groups or associations to exist in the first place. Why bother having them! On the other hand other organisations with or without uniforms such as the Scouts and Boys Brigade etc, or even the Automobile Association have existed for a longer period than the gangs in question and are not harmful to the public interest nor do these organisations and members break the laws of the land. Why give credence under the law to allow any such organisation to exist when the outcome of the existence has proven to be for the most part excessive criminal activity, inclusive of violence, acts of rape, intolerance of others who are "outside" of the gang and in the worst cases death by acts of murder, of innocents and gang members alike.The majority of people in New Zealand will no doubt support such a move to have these gangs relegated to being "illegal", and wishes of the majority ought to be reconciled by our representatives in government.
Kiwishell (Auckland)
Yes, I think all gangs should be outlawed. I think they are in Queensland in Australia. If they can do it, then we should look to them for advice. Gangs and Gang patches should be outlawed for the good of the country. It's time to tighten up and become strict. Instead of Green MP Sue Bradford and politicians spending all this precious time and taxpayers money on the smacking bill, they should be looking into how to call a halt to gangs and tighten up on unruly out of control teenagers as well. Gangs and wild teenagers is what you get when there is no discipline and the heavy hand of the law can't be dealt out. New Zealand need to get off the politically correct and culturally sensitive wagon, and start dishing out some tough discipline and laws. The country has gone to the pack.
Jay777
Why should we have gangs? Get rid of them with laws similar to the anti terrorist laws. There's always some bleeding heart defending our freedom or blurring the argument with the definition of gang. Its easy to determine whether a groups existence is in the public interest. Its obvious that intimidating patch wearing thugs are not. I feel sorry for the police that have to deal with these people. I'd love to see these bleeding hearts trying to do their job. On top of that we fund their lifestyle, housing etc and they top up their income with tax free ill- gotten gains.
Victoria, Australia
The New Zealand police are far too soft on these gangs. If they applied constant and steady pressure on them as the law-abiding public would want then these kinds of things can be avoided. Also the Clark government has sat on its hands and done nothing while crime in New Zealand has gone out of control, Helen Clark must explain to the New Zealand people what she is doing about violent crimes. These things are getting worse on her watch and a good leader would step up and take action. Her inaction is palpable. Kiwis deserve better and a safe place to raise a family would be a good start, Helen Clark must accept responsibility for law and order. If nothing is done to stop the gangs now then they will be emboldened by the police and govt weakness.
Alastair Dow
I am an expat living in Singapore. A country that is very multiracial and does not tolerate nor has gangs. The answer here is to flog people that cause this sort of disturbance and intimidation. I suggest that in NZ we bring in a law whereby first offenders get 5 strokes, double for the second offence and double agin for the third etc. I guarantee that over time it would stamp out the whole gang culture. Singapore is living proof that it works. All it needs is a NZ govt. with some guts!
Father of 2
With this latest death by a senseless drive by shooting, we are again reminded of the terrorist tactics that are in today's world. Iraq has armed insurgents daily maiming, and murdering innocents and New Zealand has come of age in the war against terror. Party has two dead by a rundown , a toddler gains her angels wings at the hand of a "piss for distance" gutless act of power gone haywire leaving a country staring at the teacups reading our bleak future .We need the balls of a great statesman to stand up and say "enough"! The current "feelgood" softly softly throw money at it until it goes away approach has just gone mad. The TV public are lapping it up and ratings are through the roof : whats next? Ask the system , its breeding lowlife with protected identities and sending them into our families to kill rape and murder, maybe we need a look at the system and forget about the victims. We are so damn good at feeling sorry for the perpetrators we build new hotels for the scum and give them the right to breathe our oxygen while they take away our people.
Nathan
NZ might consider increased penalties for people how associate for the purpose of criminal activity when they are convicted of crime...such as manufacturing and distributing P, possessing illegal guns, .shooting innocent children. As suggested by another poster, removing the outlaw gangs source of income also is effective. Legalize pot and then the government can reap the profits and use them to control dangerous drugs like P.It would also help to have a good, professional advertising campaign to characterize gang bangers as the bunch of losers they are. Direct the ads toward children and they'll be less inclined to go down that path. (Daddy, why do you tolerate gangs in our community?) It is also necessary to give the people who join the gangs options that help them develop better self-esteem. Economic development does more than create jobs. It builds the kind of communities that shuns the stigma associated with hosting gang culture.
Ms Auckland
Sure, the government should have a go at banning these nasty, criminal gangs. For a starter, legislation should be introduced to make it a criminal offence to display a gang symbol on clothes, bikes or cars, not to mention their clubhouses or homes. Secondly, these gangs should be banned from gathering in houses and club houses and so forth. Breaking these laws should result in a hefty fine as well as prison for, say, minimum one year. The police need to be on their backs all the time and give them little time for rest.
Ronfeld (UK)
It seems as though the bulk of Your Views relate to right to assembly or to join organisations. It would be interesting if someone like the Herald did a full series of article into how endemic gangs are in New Zealand. I'm sure the results would be surprising.
Steve King
I am firmly in the camp of banning gangs. It is high time that this form of urban terrorism was stamped out in NZ - in that respect I agree entirely with MP Ron Marks' recent comments labelling gangs in NZ as terrorists, because that is what they are. Moreover, the gangs like this label - they are proud of it. The only way to deal with gangs is to round them up and sling them into jail where they belong - the harsher the treatment dished out to them as this occurs, the better. Treat them as the scum that they are.A message for all the do-gooders and namby-pamby Labour sympathisers that have written in this forum lately arguing that it is too hard to define what a gang is: it is extremely easy to define a "gang" in the context that is required here. Quite simply, a "gang" in this context is a group of people who associate for the purpose, be that primarily purpose or incidental purpose, of committing criminal offences, including intimidation. Real people know what a gang is. It would be very easy to enact and enforce a law to drive out gangs - it just requires spine and will - something that our current Labour government is totally lacking.
Colin
That the police are tolerating the statements and armed intent of these gangs shows that it is time for a shift of focus. An immediate elimination of the gangs must begin. Liberal sentiment in this case causes more ongoing problems than we have now. I cannot believe anyone would mistake a rugby club or Plunket for a gang. That is simply being obtuse.
Me
Ban the Mob....enough said.
Basman
Call it gangs but to me it is tribal warfare in uniform. I actually wonder what New Zealand would be like if were owned and run by Maori and there was no crown representation. But once again we are looking at cause and affect of drugs and alcohol and poor education and last but not least male ego and his stance in society.
Paul (Sydney)
John Robb should read the NZH more often if he thinks Australian crime is disproportionately higher then NZ. I think you will find crime rates, across the spectrum, are pretty well even if not higher in NZ.
Auckland
As I understand it, promotion to full membership of a gang is dependent up committing a series of appropriately serious crimes.
If this is the case then Tariana is deliberately misleading the public to make these people appear more socially acceptable
David Cairns
Gangs in New Zealand (and elsewhere) have grown rich and powerful on the back of drug prohibition laws. This is not a surprise. It happened in the 20s in America with alcohol prohibition (bootleggers) and it has happened again in New Zealand. People will always use recreational drugs. And as long as they do, there will be people to supply them. And as long as the drugs remain illegal, gangs will profit. Fixing this is easy. Legalise. Remove the profit base from under them. Not only will the gang problem significantly ease, but enormous wasted resources (used in the "War on Drugs") will be freed up for other things that actually have a chance of working. And if you wonder whether this is the right thing to do, ask a drug dealer whether he wants drugs legalised or not.
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