KEY POINTS:
David Bain has been granted bail after serving more than 12 years of a minimum 16-year jail term for the murders of five family members.
Readers are divided about whether he is guilty or innocent.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Delighted (Hamilton)
About time! I almost cried when David was finally freed. I am so so happy for him, what a lovely intelligent gentleman. I hope he doesn't have to go through a re-trial. He has been through enough and it is very clear to me and everyone I know that David is innocent. Although it was the media that helped to set David free, I think it is time to back off and leave him alone to enjoy his free life now.
Maxine Bromley
At last - you can feel the sun on your face and smell the fresh air. Have a wonderful life and enjoy the fishing. Jor,you're a legend. I hope you get compensation David. Have a safe and happy life.
BT
Wake up people. The fact is this; whenever police choose willingly to obscure statements and knowingly withhold evidence and witness testimonials it causes reasonable doubt when said evidence is discovered. This was a great example of our justice system at its inadequate best (sic). Whenever you get a quick arrest in NZ something always seems amiss. Guilty or Innocent the point is the original trial was a shame, and Bain as any human being deserved a fair trial.
Logan
Wow. I can't believe how negative some people are. There are so many facts. not suggestions or possibles in why he is not guilty. I'm glad he's got another chance at life, even if it's 13 years later. Lets face it: we'll never know what really happened unless we invent a time machine(if someone does please bring me back the lotto numbers for the next 10 years) but come on people. Have some compassion. Even if he did hate his family and kill them don't u think he's paid his dues.13 years inside having to defend yourself and be lonely with no hopes for the future.It's a dark scary world when u have no one and I'm so glad there are people left in this world like Joe. Whether you think he's guilty or not makes no difference to the fact that there wasn't enough (real) evidence to convict.. but yet he was. Two thumbs up Joe and David. I hope you have a real life and maybe one day get to meet family you either havent met or seen in a long time.
Mrs C
David Bain is a poor criminal-he should have covered his tracts better. The gloves should have been kept on during the crime, and not disposed of in the middle of the crime scene! or at a minimum wipe the gun down thoroughly afterwards. Why didn't he wipe the washing machine free of his prints after washing his blood soiled clothes? a bit a jiff/bleach would have done the job nicely. And no one leaves a suicide note on a computer, hand written would have been best. Above aside, why could old blood from an animal not be distinguished from recent human blood prints? Are our forensic abilities that limited? My only complaint of the justice system was the minimum 16 year sentence. Surely 16 years per life he took would be more reasonable. Lets not forget his youngest victim was only 14 yrs old. A retrial is a must.
Amy
I would like to say that it is about bloody time they let him out. I feel so relieved that he is no longer serving for a crime he didn't commit. He is not the only one that the justice system screwed over, but he is lucky that he had someone that persevered with his case.
Craig
Aliens did it!! I reckon I could convince Joe Karam that aliens came down, smacked David Bain on the head, knocked him out, shot the family and took off again. Joe could publish a book and the rest of NZ would believe him, cos it's a book. We could go halves in the profits and bask in our newfound glory.
Jo Morrison
I joined the David Bain cause with Joe in the early days, and sorrowfully fell away, but never ever stopped believing that David is innocent. I would like to congratulate Joe on all his devoted work, he is a diamond, a very sensitive man, who never gave up. He has my utmost highest respect, and he is one of New Zealand's top people with integrity, honesty and tenacity. Joe, thank you for bieng you and David, just go for it man, as you deserve it all. I watched the news clip when you were released and all I could say was "" what a really nice looking young man he has become with all the worlds hardships that you have endured. Good luck.
Mike
Mrs B (and all the others who think he is guilty) - tell us exactly which piece of evidence makes you convinced David is guilty?
Margot
David, I couldn't be more pleased to see that you have your right to life back again. I have always felt that you were innocent and I hope that you have the strength to rise to a whole new set of challenges. I am pleased that Joe also had the strength to keep going to prove your case.I wish you every happiness and have faith that good things will happen to you. Take care and live life to the full.
Maia
Well what do ya know, New Zealand has their very own Side Show Bob! Congratulations David! You're doing a swell job of convincing people that someone with straight teeth and a nice suit couldn't possibly have murdered anyone. If people actually want to look at the facts of this case they'll have to read more than the NZ Herald, that's for sure. Strange days..
Martin
David Bain is still a murder accused, out on bail. Innocent until proven, yes that tenet still holds. Still I await the retrial should that ever happen. The media scrum is disconcerting - next thing he will be on the cover of the weeklies and dancing on TV.
Ruth (Auckland)
I welcome David back to the real world and salute Joe Karam for believing in him and keeping up the fight - regardless of all the thoughts of the amateur sleuths and the NZ justice system. David is a remarkable young man to emerge from his experience with such a glowing account of how he has handled himself over the years - I for one want to add my voice to those who say I am so sorry for what you have endured and proud of you - all the best for your future.
Jill
Well done David. We as a nation have followed this case for many years. Many of us were powerless to stop the injustice. Thank goodness you have such wonderful supporters. You can well hold your head high, you are a credit to mankind. You have been dealt a terrible wrong, but I don't see any bitterness or nastiness. I admire you greatly. (Hope you get lots of fish).
Sam
Bloody handprint on the washing machine - proved to be of David Bain. Fibres found underneath an executed Stephen Bain after evidence of a large struggle. Fibres from bloody sweatshirt proved to be David Bains. Found in washing machine (recently washed on morning of murders) - David Bains bloody handprint on machine...No finger prints on rifle that matched Robin Bain. Unused bullets found on floor of David Bains room.Yes the jurors might not have had all the evidence, but what about the undisputed evidence that was at the trial and various appeals? Being out doesn't mean he is innocent. Get back in jail.
Elaine Parish
I would like to wish David all the best for his future. I am a firm believer in his innocence and he could not have had a better man by his side than Joe Karam, he is an angel in my eyes. Justice in NZ is a scary thing and I would like to think if I ever was in a similar situation that someone like Joe would be there for me. Good luck.
Eddie
Well done to both David and Joe, this moment has been a long time coming. I have followed David's case from the start, even after moving to Australia. I hope that all those involved can now take stock of their lives and just live. David will need all the support that can be offered to him. All the best for your future. The worst is behind you. May you seek and accomplish your dreams. Never let anyone or thing stand in your way. Go for it.
Paul Brooks
I think the most sensible course of action would be a full inquiry into all the circumstances of the murders, investigation and trial. It may cost a lot but it would also provide a clearer picture of what actually happened.
Mrs B
David is guilty and the whole of NZ has been fooled. Now he's made a hero. In the US, the police messed up and OJ Simpson got free and this is no different. Thank Goodness he did 12 years.
Ex-pat Bain case follower
My family and I never believed the police's case against David was robust, and we're all so happy that justice has at last been done. The entire police culture and adversarial justice model needs a complete overhaul. Congratulations to you, Joe Karam, we all think your selfless sacrifice and unshaking belief in David over these last 12 years is one of the great inspirational stories in NZ history, and we all feel emboldened to fight injustice and corruption because of your incredible efforts. We can only wonder what it must have been like to be accused of such a heinous crime, and what inner strength it must have taken to maintain your self-respect over those twelve dark years. To both David and Joe: we salute you. All the best of luck, guys.
Kristin
Robin Bain was a selfish dirty old man. May he be rotting in Hell. Poor David. 13 years in jail is too long a time to pay for a crime that you did not commit. I hope he gets compensation to help him settle into a 'normal' life of which he was robbed. Thank God for Joe Karam. David Bain is not a hero, he's a constant reminder to New Zealanders that our Judicial System failed miserably. Forget a re-trial - let's move on and leave David alone and give him the peace and space he so deserves.
Denise Ganley
I just want to say congratulations to Joe Karam for his perseverance with this case and to David for getting through the past 13 years. I have always believed in your innocence and think it's appalling that you've had to go through all of this. I hope you can try and put your life back together.
Camille
When I first read the paper this past weekend I couldn't believe it... so David Bain was innocent? How awful for him. What a bunch of idiots we have running our 'justice' system. It got me quite worked up, so i did some research into the case. And what did I find? Overwhelming, solid, substantial evidence that David Bain killed his family! I am now feeling equally passionate disgust towards our 'media' who present unbalanced, biased news to a NZ public all too ready to believe whatever they are being told. Come on people. Please. No one has said he's innocent. And I for one do not want a once convicted murderer living in my society because a few people didn't do their job well enough the first time round. He is a murderer. Not a national hero.
Justice for David Bain
Shame Shame Shame!! I am fed up of reading & hearing about such shameful acts of deceit, rape, lies, cover ups & generally immoral behaviour by our citizens & high profile members. Namely, police officers, politicians & public offenders. The Bain case highlights the mentality of the lopsided judiciary process whereby it appears that this is yet again another 'stuff up' in judgment. How convenient that Bain was the only one of the family left to blame. My heart goes out to this young man who will never be able to retrieve the best years of his life. He may have been a husband, a father and by the looks of him, a responsible and giving young man in the community. Trial or no retrial, it is indeed a travesty & I hope the he sues the NZ government & gets to enjoy the rest of his life. He deserves that much. How sad it is, that he has no blood family left except for those warped & unkind aunts & uncles who would have known & were ashamed of what Robin did. Lucky David was doing his rounds otherwise he would have been dead as well. Never mind that Robin was molesting his daughter.God Bless you David Bain, you deserve the best. Move to Australia & feel the sun on your face every day.
Aloh
My question would be why is it that none of Bain's extended family seem to be involved? Surely they would have spent time with him after the killings and have been able to make a judgment about his guilt or innocence - his behaviour would have told them something no police evidence could prove? It seems strange to me that they do not appear to be supporters of his release?
J.Ruawhare
Lets see. Robin Bain, decides to kill everyone in the house, and then, after having gone to yoga classes for years (not) puts the rifle barrel to the back of his head and manages to reach backwards and shoot himself in the back of the head. What a contortionist. How many suicides do we hear of where the offender has shot themselves, not in the mouth or temple, but from behind using a rifle. Is it just me, or does this simple piece of logic escape everyone, or is just that theres too many people that have ostrich syndrome? David Bains guilty as. When he was arrested, his face was one of a pissed of unit who just got sprung, not some saddened boy totally distraught at what had happened. Wake up NZ. Go figure.
Tucson, Arizona
I wanted to pass on to David that I feel with what I know of the case he was unjustly punished for a crime he did not commit. The evidence against him I feel was weak. In my opinion there was never enough positive evidence to convict him of the crime. But there were enough witnesses to prove at the time of the murders that he was out on his paper round. Also I do believe no one ever measured the length of his fathers arm, proving that the father could very well had, killed the family then took his own life.
Evie (London)
Well done, Joe Karam! I am so happy for you David! I have followed this case carefully and have always believed in your innocence. I was praying for you very much whilst your case was before the Privy Council here in London. Every day I was watching and waiting for the outcome, and was overjoyed when it finally came. David you deserve all the best that life can offer. May your transition into everyday life be as smooth as possible. I hope you will find love, happiness and all the best that life can offer. I know that this will not make up for what you have been through, but may the love of many be a healing balm to you. God bless you in your future.
Louise Le Geyt
I am so over the moon to hear you are free.I have been praying for 12 twelve years that the truth shall be revealed.Who the son sets free is free indeed.The truth will set you free.Praise God that he set you free and that he loves you so much.Be Blessed for the future.Justice prevails.
Hayden
He's a convicted murderer and I hope he gets what's coming to him.
Andy
It's about time. Justice delayed was Justice denied. Good on Joe Karam ex-All Black: he's provided a service to New Zealand that equals or trumps any of the greatest services to NZ from any All Black ever -- by this ongoing act of unstinting human compassion, his is a life usefully lived. A true NZ Hero if ever there was one: what a wonderful friend for David to have. And good on David Bain for never allowing the System to crush his spirit into submission for a crime he did not commit. There remains the iniquitous situation with the Christchurch Creche and Peter Ellis to be resolved. And how many more miscarriages of Justice are there? Where are their Joe Karam's? God help them all: and remember always that there but for the Grace of God go we all.
Kent Parker
I cannot judge on the innocence or not of David Bain, but I can say that it is possible to pick a hole and find fault in any judicial prosecution if you are persistent and persuasive enough and have sufficient funds and time at your disposal, all of which Joe Karam has had over the past decade in his single minded dedication to the David Bain case. His books have satisfactorily convinced many of the public that he is innocent by widely advertising, promoting and popularizing only David Bain's side of the story. Eventually, like high rotation ads on TV it finally gets under the skin and becomes convincing. Bain was found guilty within the legal system and has been found innocent in the media. It is common for suspects that plead not guilty at trial to maintain their innocence behind bars despite evidence against them. The amount of money Karam spent in pursuit of Bain's innocence suggests that he long ago left objectivity behind and turned it into a personal vendetta which provided his life with meaning and purpose. If the NZ judiciary simply roll over in the face of the media circus he has created then it would be an indication of weakness in the face of the higher Privy Council. It is going to take some seriously skilled manoevres for them to get out of the current bind and to roll back the effect of ten years of Joe Karam's persuasive public persistence, regardless of whether Bain is guilty or not.
Nicholas
I am simply staggered by the amount of people who talk of David Bain as some messiah or martyr. There was a caller on the radio this morning who believed he wasn't guilty because he had nice eyes and another who believed the same because he was eloquent and spoke well so how could he be a murderer! Mind blowing. The actual evidence, you know the stuff in the court not on the front page of the Herald, is compelling against David Bain. The other thing people forget is that if it was Robin why didn't the police just close the case after two hours and say it was murder/ suicide? Why go to the bother of forming a case against David? If you think it's because they are corrupt or wanted a conviction then you are all as mad as you seem. Mind you, this country has been run by the far left for nine years and they keep getting voted back in so it seems most of you might be mad after all.
Pippin
When they said he was guilty, the majority of the public agreed. When they said he was innocent years later,the public agrees? At first I was happy for the guy, mostly because of the media hype,which us kiwis just love ( sadly )but you've got to look at what the privy council said. There was a miscarriage of justice,not that he was flat out innocent. Please for the sake of future trials in NZ,read the facts, not the headlines in the paper or the fake smiles of TV presenters(and it is so easy to do that).I am yet to place judgement ,but I do agree that he has been mucked around by the New Zealand judicial system,and deserves a fair trial. I feel so sorry for the fallen family members,that,lets not forget,were murdered in cold blood,and their lives cut short by a loved family member,whoever that may be. Enjoy your freedom David, shes a hell of a country.
Stewart Williamson
I don't know whether David is innocent or guilty, but I have had serious misgivings about the whole saga from day one. NZ has had three peculiar cases over my lifetime - Arthur Alan Thomas, Peter Ellis (what a travesty that is), and David Bain. I hope the new generation of detectives can keep in mind all possibilities when examining a crime scene - sometimes the impossible does occur and needs a hell of a lot of lateral thinking to solve! Those who are so convinced of Davis's guilt would do well to consider the superstitious hysteria here in Australia over the Chamberlain affair. I had hoped Kiwis were more mature and able to exercise rationality when faced with mysterious crimes like these.
Ike
It amuses me that the Bain bandwagon are more than happy to trumpet the Privy Council decision quashing convictions, but when the same Privy Council deny bail, the Bain brigade run to the High Court bleating at the unfairness of it all, and the High Court overturns the Privy Council. Figure that one out. Also, it would be helpful if the media stopped bending over backwards kowtowing to Bain, treating him like some homecoming hero. He still stands accused of the murder of five, and if a jury gets to hear the evidence again, plus the additional aspects highlighted in the appeal case, away from all of the carefully cultivated spin going around at the moment, there stands a very good chance that he will be going back from whence he came.
Rohanne
Good luck David and absolutely all the best. I have always believed your trial and sentence was a total travesty of justice and something that Kiwis should be ashamed happened in our country.
Ali
Privy Council quashes conviction = compensation for David Bain ? I hope so.
Matt (Dunedin, Student)
Congratulations! About time too. If for some reason it goes to a retrial, good luck, though you shouldn't need it because you're innocent.Hope to see you down this way (Dunedin) again sometime soon :)
Florica
Dear David, last night seeing you at the news I felt happier than I ever been in 64 years...The real meaning of suffering has changed in an instant as I saw you smiling. I felt deep in my heart that you are a special young man with an aristocratic personality about you -never able to do somebody any wrong. I just knew that in my heart. I am so pelased that a man like Joe Karam was the fighter for justice all these long years..a wonderful man he is. That case seems that New Zealand turning point in history(at least from now on..) I salute your special personality wishing you best from now on..with love and admiration.
Student
I am a year 9 student and every Wednesday we must come to school with a news item. Today I came to school and forgot to bring one. Suprisingly I still learnt alot about this case and I think that Bain is innocent. My teacher also agrees and says this because when she heard him speak on Tuesday night she could tell he was telling the truth.
Michele
Finally, the freedom you deserve. Best wishes for your future.
Pamela Moresby
As far as I am concerned this man was not totally proven guilty and should be allowed bail. I don't really know whether he is innocent or guilty as the facts are clouded to me.
Steven Jamieson
How can anybody believe so strongly that Bain is innocent? The deafening chorus of ill-informed support he is receiving is really frightening. What scares me is the ease with which most of Your Views writers have become zealots in his cause. How can any of these people know the full facts? It's the same mentality that could easily be turned to far darker purposes. The unfortunate thing about our legal system is that its goal is not truth, but rather justice - with a huge array of caveats. People can believe what they want, but it's what they know that is really important.
Brett Jones
I have been watching David's case for years, he is completely innocent of course. I nearly cried when I saw him released from prison. He is a very normal pleasant man and I was deeply moved by Joe Karam, his commitment to the cause, his incredibly supportive family and Paul his assisting lawyer. Joe you are an inspiration to us all - you are an incredible person for your work. David - just go for it and dont let anyone bring you down, you deserve the best in life.
MJ
I am irritated when reading all the views from people stating Bain as innocent. It seems obvious that people are easliy influenced by media reporting (famous for not accurately reporting.) David is not a celebrity. David is still a convicted murderer. His conviction is not over turned. It is so easy to blame the Police. Surely a murder/suicide would be the easiest outcome for the Police investigation. Do people think that this was not considered? I'm sure that the evidence logically and factually pointed towards David as the investigation progressed. Apart from one mans allegation about an incestual affair in the family (admittedly a strong motivation), what evidence pointed towards the father? None. From what I have read (not in Media) there were numerous pieces of evidence pointing towards David. I hope the Police do retrial David as then we will find out his guilt. Although other factors are present I'm sure the same result will prevail.
Tim
I am horrified looking at the coverage of David Bain and his release, knowing some of the people close to the family and others who had attended ever day of the court cases they are disgusted by this glory hound Joe Karam and revolted by the number of free loaders who seem to want to get on the bandwagon of Bain freedom. Many, many people are convinced he did it, I keep coming back to the impossible angle of the shots that killed the father that point to only one possible murderer. The very same person everyone seems to be falling over to suck up to on his release. Re- try and convict again this monster, send him back, people seem very quickly to forget the family and the effect this must be having on them. Our NZ justice system works, get some self believe and wake up NZ.
Jayvit
Guilty or not, I think he has spent enough time behind bars and deserves a fresh start. If he really did it, his bad deeds will catch up with him but then again if he really is innocent, have a good life David. And tie up the TV and book deals while you're still in the public eye.
Gemma
Best wishes to you David. Time to rediscover life!
Narnie
Hi David so pleased for you, you take it easy now, catch many fish. Teach a man to fish and he will always have a fish (meal)
Have lots of fun in Te Kauwhata, know the place well, and still have family living there.
Electra
Whether Bain is guilty or not, it has been established that there was a serious miscarriage of justice. So what are we going to do about that? There are enough serious cases under question at the moment to suggest that Bain's case may not be at all an isolated incident. And those are just the serious ones that have attracted significant publicity, volunteer support and private money in the fight for justice. Time to call for a serious investigation into our justice system.
Michael
I've read all the books, Good luck on your new life David. We all knew you were not guilty.Enjoy the payout. I would. You deserve it.
Emma
Good luck and I hope you keep that bright smile on your face :)
Annie Bradshaw
Well done Joe Karam and thank goodness the obvious has finally been seen. It was so apparent the father was the only one with motive to do this. It's a shame we seem to nurture and protect the obviously guilty of their heinous crimes and yet ignore the ones who are to some, obviously innocent.
Jennifer
Must have been a bit of a nightmare if you were on the jury. It was only ever Robin or David. Thankfully the jury is never allowed to be seen or named because they were ordinary people like you and me just trying to get it right.
Karvee (Brisbane, Australia)
Words cannot explain how happy I was to hear about the developments in the David Bain case. I have followed the case from day one, have read Joe Karam's and James McNeish's books and have always felt strongly about how hard done by David was throughout the whole "justice" process. Unfortunately no one can give David his life back, but luckily he is young enough to start again. Good Luck, David, with everything and may the truth prevail.
Denise
Whether David Bain is innocent or not. The Privy Council has concluded that, "in the very unusual circumstances of this case, a substantial miscarriage of justice has actually occurred". That in itself tells us that not all the facts were put forward to the jury who decided David's fate thirteen years ago. If anyone has bothered to read Joe Karam's book you'll know what I am talking about. If a retrial is ordered then I would be very surprised if there is a conviction this time around. I very much doubt it. Personally, I am very pleased for David and I wish him all the best.
Interested (Ruakaka)
David Bain has been through enough, let him get on with his life, and be able to enjoy the comfort of friends for the first time in years of incarceration. "Wrongly convicted" in the first place. God bless him! Congratulations to a strong man behind him, had he not had Joe, he probably would have given up!
Louisa
Not-guilty or guilty?Some of us have already decided which it is. I myself would not want to be on that bench of 12 at any retrial! I think David should have his time out away from Police, media, fans(?), and the such to get his bearings and then get right back into 'letting the truth be known'. He will need to really ruck in there and dig up all the crap thats been put against him and fight with all his might to clear his innocence beyond 'any reasonable doubt'! David still has a long way to go, the party shouldnt start yet! Good luck David.
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