KEY POINTS:
The Prime Minister says the Government will set targets for the adoption of biofuels as she urged New Zealand to tackle climate change head on. In her opening statement to begin the parliamentary year she called for a bold approach to environmental policy.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
SB
Since the technology exists to manufacture electric cars why dont we just do that and cut out oil all together? It would be cheaper for us and extremely beneficial for the environment.
Dave Malster
Regardless of whether we adopt eco-friendly measures or not in NZ. Our government will display their appreciation of our efforts by either heavily taxing use of non eco-friendly resources, and at the same time inventing new taxes for people who dare to make the necessary changes,(see the tax charged on diesel simply because it was cheaper to buy and generally cleaner burning). No wonder Helen Clark is all in favour of supporting the kyoto protocols- the government cant lose. Instead of paying billions of dollars in penalty payments to some faceless offshore dictatorship, why do we not use some of our money in subsidising those of us who wish to install solar heating or fill the CNG from the home connection, or whatever. Why should we bother at all if we are going to pay more anyway?
Darren Dumble
At last the Government has realised that modern diesel vehicles are the key to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Now all they have to do is remove/reduce the inequitable Road User Charge from these vehicles; and the rest of us without a Government Vehicle Allowance can afford to run one!
Peter Williams
Here are a few facts that the Govt doesnt want you to know about biofuels: - They cost more than petrol, 6cpl according to Shell; They are less efficient so not only will you pay more for them, you will have to buy more to go the same distance. Ethanol is about 25 per cent less efficient, biodiesel about 10 per cent: They may not work in your car or more accurately might cause long term issues like increased corrosion. Why wont car companies warranty cars for more than a couple of per cent bio; No-one is actually producing them in NZ in any volume. Why? Because it is too expensive so expect additional cost to be passed on. It is amazing that many people in this forum were whingeing about petrol price rises last week and now are supporting something that will hit prices permanently and that might actually not be good for their cars, the environment or the economy.
Colin England
Adding bio-fuels to the market is a good idea but encouraging plantations to specifically supply those fuels is a bad idea. Bio-fuels run at a net energy loss so can only help towards carbon neutrality and then only if the bio-fuels created are made out of bio-wastes improving the efficiency of the original energy used. Add in some solar power solutions and we'll be almost there. For solar water heating the government could build an automated factory that produces the necessary vacuum tubes and sell them to private industry at cost. For solar electricity the government needs to pass a law that requires electricity retailers to buy the electricity from its users at the same price as it sells it to them and to put in the required regulations for connecting those solar panels to the power grid. Nuclear energy is still a white elephant as the waste costs far too much to get rid of to make it economically viable and it is certainly not safe. Populations living around nuclear reactors have a higher incidence of cancer which adds additional costs in health care.
Bob Kay
Do not be misled by politicians whose knowledge of science and climatology is as shallow as their egos are monumental.
Ray Clarke
When will the Prime Minister and Minister David Parker tell us where the surplus supply of tallow is available in New Zealand to produce Bio Diesel as is the case in Australia? The tallow from NZ is exported to countries such as China and there is none to spare it seems. So tallow may not be available meaning we will have to import Bio Diesel adding further to our balance of payments deficit.
Michael
Rob is spot on. The bio fuel plans are future pie in the sky and there is no way NZ motorists are going to quickly switch. Those of us trying to use trains and public transport to make a difference now are giving up. Western line trains have been late all week and are so slow and unreliable. Mean Mr Cullen says no to electrification. So the Governments greenie look is all hot air.
Dean Brown
While I do not profess to be an expert on bio-fuels I can see the government has not done its homework at all. A target of 3 per cent is laughable not laudable, and the warning it will cost us more is already setting us up to cop ridiculous taxes on top of the actual fuel costs. Yes, there are expenses, no, it wont require the huge outlays required by petrochemical refinement facilities. We already pay through the nose for oil, even though someone else states we get it for free. Ethanol makes a lot of sense and should be pursued fully. With greatly reduced greenhouse gas emissions (we keep it for fuel) Local farmers could diversify in specific regions for the production of bio-fuel crops, the wastes from ethanol production returned to the land as fertiliser, cheap, locally made organic fertiliser, not imported petrochemical based product that is slowly destroying our waterways. This will also greatly reduce farmers need for drugs for their stock, more petrochemical products. We sh ould be aiming for eventual total use of alternative fuels, acting as if there will be no oil left, and I know we Kiwis have what it takes to do this. Look at the Waiheke waste oil scheme, the cowshed invention recently on Country Calendar that supplied its own electricity. If just one local can make a cruise missile in his shed - collectively we can address alternative fuel supply that works... Govt should put money to locals who have the desire and working knowledge to make real change and let our kiwi ingenuity shine once again. Send scientists in related fields to India to study, and Japan, and to the UK where they grow cress for oil production. Let our farmers grow rich again with diversification, as the country is always in good shape when this happens. Throw money (incentive) at bio-fuel conversion, assist the start-up businesses involved, not the oil companies now trying to cash in on the planets plight which they are largely responsible for. The writings been on the wall a long time. WWII saw fuel shortages and from this a man emerged who ran his car for decades on chicken manure and straw. Many bio-fuel technologies can be found, and can easily be refined with a reasonable cash input. NZ can emerge as a country to be proud of, not with a pathetic 3 per cent of someone elses bio-fuel that costs us more than oil. A fully self supporting country in energy requirements. This 3 per cent conversion is just a means to win an election, it means little to the average NZ'er, and even less to our planet. And pointing the finger at Govt fleets just allows them to spend umpteen tax dollars on brand new fleets. Let the cars age as usual, and the budget follow normal restraints phasing in new vehicles when and where they would be normally. So much hot air been blown about, enough to warm the globe!
Rob
Auckland is New Zealand Largest city and has an underdeveloped railway network which is 100 per cent diesel. Every day 100s of trips are made using recycled trains that have seen better days. As an environmental country it is sad to see that no matter how much people in Auckland push for electrification of Aucklands Rail network someone stands in the way. Electrification of Auckland railway and the gap north of Hamilton and between Paraparaumu and Palmerston North were electrified the entire North Island Main Trunk Railway would be electrified and both of the countries suburban rail networks would be electrified this would allow us to purchase or convert trains to electric saving money on fuel and also improving the reliability of trains in New Zealand and especially Auckland. This along with sustainable power generation like hydro-electric, solar and wind turbines would make a world class rail network where we can start replacing bus and freight truck services with rail services and sustainable power generation.
Steven Yip
As a product designers point of view, I believe that using Bio Fuel is a go for the future especially when new technology helps to keep our environment clean and safe. Not only that but saving cost financially helps a lot of people in New Zealand and around the globe who can afford Bio fuel than paying double the amount for petrol. Functional wise, it does the same job. Lets support this campaign and let it happen.
Tony Jackson
The motor industry should be offering us vehicles that are bio-diesel ready so that we do not face a $4,000 conversion cost.
Wendy
I suggest that you investigate how the existing NZ petrol fleet will be able to cope with Ethanol fuel mixes above 5 per cent. Most NZ cars are Japanese either used or new. The used ones are built to the Japanese domestic standard and they are not built to cope with 5 per cent blends or above! I am sure we do not want cars bursting into flames at traffic lights or for fuel lines to need to be replaced at our cost. The Japanese have fully researched this topic and there is a lot of information available from Japan on the pros and cons of bio fuels.
I note that none of the existing NZ Ministers responsible for this policy have visited Japan to engage in meaningful discussions with the Japanese to learn from their mistakes.
Jules Clark
The debate about using biofuels as an additive fails to take into account that it is built on a fossil fuel economy. Our entire industrial society exists only because we have had this one off windfall of oil that has been a free resource straight out of the ground. Biofuels, however, can only ever be a partial replacement because the huge processing infrastructure to make it will require a very large proportion of that very same fuel. Because of this, Biofuels do not have the same advantage that fossil fuels have, since they have had millions of years to be created by natural environmental conditions. It has been calculated, that in America alone, it would take the amount of land somewhat larger than Texas to replace their current fuel needs. This would require the usuage of current agricultural land needed for food crops. People and governments need to seriously consider how we intend to continue as a modern society, in a world that will have far fewer energy resources available and at the same time an ever-growing world population with an insatiable demand for energy. There are no known magic bullets to this oncoming emergency and the NZ government needs to be far more bolder and forward thinking than their current energy strategies.
Rory
The article has a picture showing a man pouring Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) into his tank to use as fuel. He may be smiling, but the environment isnt from the pollution his car will be creating. SVO reduces engine life, doesnt due enough to reduce pollution, and isnt a feasible option for most consumers. Biodiesel, on the other hand, is the result of transesterification of SVO or other oils that removes the glycerol in the oil and leads to cleaner burning fuel, longer engine life, and a bright future for the biofuel industry.
Ronan Foley
Cost of conversion ($4000) a way too high, I guess that applies to petrol as well as diesel?
S Kumar
So the Labour govt is thinking of raising petrol prices in order to make biofuel "seem" cheaper? Hope you labour voters are happy with your new facist overlord.
Francesca Roehlecke
I think we have lots of options available to us today.
For example in Australia they are building a solar city in Adelaide:
http://www.originenergy.com.au/home/template.php?pageid=1843
What about a photovoltaic solar panel on every house in sunny Auckland. You could charge your 100 per cent electric car such as a Tesla from the roof of your own home even when it is cloudy:
http://www.teslamotors.com/
It would be a breath of fresh air
Mirko Wojnowski
The 3 per cent target is a joke. What needs to be addressed is that SUVs put out ten times the pollutants of regular cars, which I find criminal. A higher tax should be imposed on them to discourage prestige-hungry people to buy them and drive them around Auckland for shopping and work. What I would like to know is: who can readers like me send emails to in order to inform them what the public really wants?
Rossnz
The nuclear-free policy is now more a revered tradition than science based. The head-in-the-sand attitude that nuclear energy alternatives can't even be discussed is shortsighted. Eventually it may also prove to be very costly. The most developed and most progressive countries in the world have or are considering nuclear energy. Third world here we come. Will the green-line policy be just as pigheadedly stupid?
Susan
I think the government (if they are serious about the environment) should at least give subsidies on anything that would encourage the consumer to get with the program ie bio fuels, sola power, wind generation, hybrid vehicles. A lot of New Zealanders cannot afford the extra expense associated with changing their habits. Some dont even want to but subsidies may sway them in the right direction. Ethonol has been used for years in other parts of the world - why not NZ? At least we are talking more about it, I guess!
Alan Rutherford
If the Prime Minister is borrowing concepts from Tony Blair, it is surely the signs of a desperate party. The British labour party is in dire trouble and the NZ Labour Party appears to be following suit. At this point in time neither labour party seems to have a clue as to what is going on.
Paul Axford
Your article alludes to this but it is important to emphasize that Envirofuel is not biodiesel but is just waste vegetable oil (known as WVO) that has been cleaned and filtered. As with the many other instances that make the news of vehicles that are run on WVO, you cannot run any diesel engine on this - only the older-technology engines will work, such as those in certain SSangYongs. A newer "common rail" or "pumpeduse" engine will be severely damaged by WVO. Using WVO is a great attention-getter but is not a long-term solution - it must be converted to biodiesel first.
James Angst
In your paper Feb 14: "3.4 per cent biofuel content in petrol and diesel" That means still 96.6 per cent fossil fuel in mix.Insignificant reduction. Go to hydrogen. Zero greenhouse gasses. Costly to convert, but global warming will be even costlier.
Tony Weddle
The claim is made that biofuels are zero carbon. I would like to see those calculations. Studies by David Pimentel, and others, indicate that ethanol is a net energy loser. If this is true, then ethanol can not be a zero emitter of greenhouse gases, since much of the energy that goes into growing, harvesting, processing and transporting ethanol must be fossil fuel based. So it is unlikely to be a clean fuel. But, if these studies are correct, it is a complete waste of time creating ethanol, since more energy will be used in its creation, than is obtained in its burning. More research is needed before going further down this path. Lastly, remember that ethanol is not as energy rich as petrol (something like 70 per cent of petrol), so more volume is needed, to replace the equivalent amount of petrol.
Andrew Atkin
Biofuels have some value where they can be readily obtained from available bio-waste. However, if you are doing it on a larger scale then you have to grow produce specifically for the purpose of fuel, and then the economics and efficiencies become questionable to say the least. At the end of the day, biofules are simply a horribly inefficient form of solar-power. We already have the technology to do much better, using electric cars with advanced lithium-ion batteries. Small electric cars complimenting traditional cars can remove at least 95 per cent carbon output (from cars), and as a total system they are hugely more energy-efficient than biofules. Though batteries now have an impressive range, we can ultimate electrify our main roads as a long-term solution to master range limits, or possibly use biofuels for hybrids (that is, if we want absolutely no carbon emissions). With steer-by-wire technology, guideway-electrification is not at all too difficult to achieve. In saying all this I will also point out that there is a new kind of lithium battery coming onto market which can be recharged in as little as 5 minutes - this could indeed be the 'revolutionary' battery we have been waiting for. The main possibile long-term use for biofuels is in aircraft - electrically-based technologies are and always will be much more competitive and efficient for cars.
John
I think it is the best thing that could happen in order to protect the nature and people of this beautiful country!
Pat Wright
I would be happy to help the environment if given some incentive. e.g. I would like to change my house to solar power but the cost of doing so is moire than I would save on electricity. Perhaps the government might find an incentive for people who do this. Just as they could give an incentive for using biofuel. I seem to remember incentives for using lpg back in the dim past of another Labour government
Richard Deakin
I am not an animal rights activist by any means, but I have curbed my meat consumption and reliance on animal by-products over the past few years to almost nil - and would like to get to nil eventually. Now the government is trying to force the introduction of biodiesel, made mainly in this country from animal tallow. In a meat obsessed country this will undoubtedly be more financially attractive than developing other sources. This means that for me to move to more environmentally friendly diesel, I have to burn the by-products of dead animals in my car. Surely the government should be putting more emphasis on ensuring that non-animal bio diesels are being produced and that those that do not support the meat industry are not financially or otherwise penalised.
Sean
Moving to a more environmentally friendly and efficient fuel would be a welcome change and its good that the Government is leading the way to re-install NZs image of "clean and green". But the biggest factor for consumers will be the price. As we already struggle to survive with the excess price of petroleum, the Government will not be able to convert many of us to Biofuel unless its cheaper. Saving our money and our environment at the same time would be ideal.
Raj
Biofuel is certainly one of the options but not a solution in itself. Its good to have some self-sufficiency and not being held to ransom by oil cartel Opec has turned into. Other factors should be: Ban 4WDs in Auckland, tax double or triple road user charges on gas guzzlers and use fund to subsidize smaller cars. Tax free green Cars for 5 years. Public transport especially railways for e.g if you want to travel from say Three Kings to north shore you need to hop on 2 buses and look at 1 hour 45 min time, this is so inefficient.
Matt Pilott
The vision of making NZ the first truly environmentally sustainable country is an exceptional one, and could be achieved with the right mix of incentives and obligations: there's no way that natural market forces will bring this about, no matter what a National MP tells you. We need regulation and there's only one force in NZ politics that has the will to be able to achieve this. The food miles debacle in Europe shows how important this issue is for NZ - there is no cost too great in the effort to become sustainable.
Sam
I wonder if you can get away without paying diesel miles?
Mig
If I had the funds just lying around instead of committed elsewhere our Nissan Terranno would already be converted to run on bio-fuel. As an environmentally aware person that has recycled household waste for more than 20 years I would be ecstatic to be able to do this for the environment my family and I live in. The government offers an interest-free loan for households to set up solar water heating which we've taken up. Can we have interest free loans to convert our cars to bio-fuel as well? Please.
Josh Whale
The unglamourous Turd can also be processed in an anaerobic reactor to produce biogas. Less charismatic than his fish-oil and tallow cousins, the turds lack of simple charm means we are loathe to see it as a resource (biogas, ammonium and nitrogen fertilizer). This is because we are innocently stuck in the old mindset of seeing poos and wees as things to be flushed into the sea with lots of drinking quality water, after travelling enormous distances in leaky, expensive pipes, to float by as we go for a swim.
Patricia
Helengrad (and the Labour party) is too PC to say upfront that one of the most devastating causes of global warming is China and India. Both countries have the highest generation of carbon dioxide plus the lowest efficiency of fuel consumption per capita. However, it is better and easier to criticise the Western countries than to look at odds with the 3rd World. Instead of shoving down the throat of NZ her leftist ideals, she would be better off by placing the blame squarely where it resides.
Phil O'Donnell
Once again NZ, led by Helen, is way in advance of most other western countries. Compare Australia to us where old grouchy grandpa Howard has to be dragged kicking and screaming to do anything his American masters dont like. Pat yourself on the back New Zealand. Pat yourself on the back that we have a P.M. like Helen and not John Howard.
The Strategist
Its a start, but biofuels should only be part of a far more substantial strategy with measures such as: getting people out of cars; providing Auckland with a world class public transport system; reinvigorating our national rail system and completing its electrification; and providing our households, farms and businesses with real incentives to conserve and produce energy. These and other measures will not only fight climate change. In a dangerous world they will allow NZ to adjust relatively painlessly to the end of the cheap oil era, and eliminate our risky dependence on foreign oil supplies. In the 21st century Middle East, Asian and African oil supplies will increasingly be disrupted - by instability in these regions, and by great power conflict over oil.
Stu Colson
This is a bad idea. We have already deforested 95 per cent of the rain forest in New Zealand for farming and now we jump on the band wagon and go for more? Or will be import it from other countries, using up 3rd world land, and denying peasant farmers subsistent crop land. Bio fuels can only work in a utopian society, where everybody voluntarily eats meat only once a week and car pools daily. If anybody reading wants to know how they can help NZ, or just themselves save a bit of the planet, the only true answer is a bit of self-sacrifice. Not just giving to a cause, but actually going without something. We consume and create waste at similar levels to the US and as a nation must take account for the state of this planet. The clean, green, kiwi image we hold so dearly is a myth.
Tina
I do agree with the below comments on how the big companies around the globe are destroying the rain forests and destroying so much lives to gain a foot hold in the biofuel market via its potential for extreme growth - in other words, money at any cost. Bio-fuels are a very destructive and stupid way to get around. Remember, we are only wanting to harvest the planet so we can "drive" from here to there. Wonder why they are so overweight in the bee hive still eh - does anyone of them walk anywhere? This is why you see ignorant plans for clean green. "They", those people in the hive are busy buzzing around eating, throwing verbal abuse at each other and then constructing ideas based on their own imbalanced life styles. Why not actually "see" clearly for once. The solar panel idea i saw here is the single most amazing idea as we head into the age of extreme sunshine; think about it; "sunshine for free" with zero by-products to ever thing about. Wow, does anyone in charge have any sense at all. What a simple way to overcome "all" power requirements. Based on calculations per kilowatt of power, every house in the country having at least some power generation on their roof, i.e. 1 decent solar panel, it would straight away sort out all the power requirements in New Zealand for good. This in turn would create an amazing amount of work for laborers for installation of the panels and big business for the construction of the panels themselves. As per someone said, even a child could come up with this idea. Lets do it!
Michael Robinson
Helen Clarks anounced uptake target for biofuels of 3.4 per cent of petrol usage by 2012 is a joke and merely highlights the total lack of vision in New Zealand polictical leadership currently. If we were to treat this as seriously as it merits then the target should be at least 20 per cent. For a more inspiring target, what about 50 per cent by 2015?
Gareth
The idea of biofuels is all well and good for diesel vehicles. But when we are talking about adding alcohol for petrol powered vehicles it isn' going to be of any benefit. 10 per cent isnt a lot in anyones books. So in regards to lowering pollution, adding even 10 per cent alcohol it is not going to do much at all. Not only that but adding alcohol isnt going to help the overall octane. Japanese import cars are designed to run on higher octane fuels than what is available in NZ.
Bob Sadler
Biofuels, from an energy balance point of view, are scarcely worth the effort and their combustion is no less polluting than fossil fuels. wind and solar are costly, inefficient. nuclear remains the safest, cheapest and least polluting form of energy (which is presumably why Sweden gets 50 per cent of its power from nuclear).
Adrian Kerr
New Zealand already produces millions of litres of ethanol a year as a byproduct from milk processing. In addition we have vast resources of tallow and fish oils that can readily be converted to biodiesel. New technology that allows cellulose to be used to make methanol is also available, and could utilise the vast amounts of wood chips that we currently export to Asia. Not to mention one of the best wind resources in the world. If any country can have a truly renewable energy system, it is New Zealand (along with Iceland). Lets get to it, and be proud for having done so.
Jason
It should be a weekly debate, a daily plan, and implemented "right now"! The goals of 2012 are so laid back. Do they mean the end of 2012, or there abouts; as in, 2014-16, etc? We have heard a lot about this, and now we see the huge power lines being given the go ahead and being strung across farmers land for what reason? Auckland or ...? The main centres, what a waste of time and money when every city, every town and every province can generate their own power via wind and "solar". Every house with a solar panel; think about it - only one solar panel per house is needed! A new housing and power scheme regulated and brought into existence which has any new houses being built, or any buildings and development blocks being built anywhere in the country; stating that they must have an existing self generating solar power system installed; generating up to a certain degree of power depending on the size of the property. Each and every house gets a rebate on how big their personal solar generation and contribution to the grid is, and the low income families have government help to install one so to add to the national grid via their own roof top solar panel. Tis is so simple a child could have come up with the idea - so much talk, and so little brain cells to get on with it; who is it again who lives in the bee hive? Make it happen now! Waste and all other aspects of clean green aswell please. Please ask the children! Please, can we start this process now! Please, save the children; for our sake! Do you really care about us anymore?
KiwiCritic
Biofuels is not the only final way to control global warming. The other better way to stop wasting money on fuels and control the global warming is firstly to develop a massive public transport system in cities like Auckland and by that I mean that you can get a bus from any street say every 15 minutes and much more frequency of trains and more routes etc. This is the only way to get people off the their cars. Secondly, ban the 4wds in cities like Auckland. We dont need them, they are dangerous and gas guzzlers. Small cars should be taxed much lower and encouraged for anyone who still wants a car. Government should stop wasting any more money on newer motorways and instead spend that money on putting more buses on the road and better the railway system. Anyone who is in charge of transport, please go to places like Sydney, New York, London, Mumbai etc to see what I am talking about.
Rosemary
Rolf, Amazon rainforests are mostly being cleared in favour of soybean plantations, not palm. See: http://www.mongabay.com/external/soybeans2003.htm
Hopefully we get some carbon labelling soon that tells us exactly what the environmental impact is of what we buy. I would never buy rice grown in the Murray Valley, for instance! Or beef raised on wheat in the US (but NZ is ok).
Wayne Fergusson
What monkey see monkey do as president Bush very recently addressed the very issue in similar text. Good though lets hope the fuel giants dont hold the monopoly and say like they have now.
Rolf
This is one of the most environmental devastating ideas ever. Sure biofuels are indeed carbon-neutral, but thats not the holy grail. Rainforests in the Amazon and southeast Asia are now being cleared in favour of palm oil plantations! The global demand for biofuels is rising at 25 per cent a year and the forests are paying the price.And coupled with this countrys nuclear-free policy the future looks even more bleak. Modern nuclear power plants are perfectly safe and do not emit CO2. If there had not been so much anti-nuclear lobbying around the globe in the past 30 years, we would now be facing a global warning problem of much smaller proportions. We need to focus on truly environmental friendly energy sources, which ALSO has a minimal impact on our current environment. Nuclear is one of them, and having an almost religious stance against anything nuclear, and even being proud of it, is simply outrageously stupid.
Darren W
I have been making my own biodiesel for 2 years now so anything that means its more widely available is a good thing. As long as it is supported with proper information and allows people to make the right choice for their vehicle then the sooner the better.
