KEY POINTS:
Water bills are set to rise across the Auckland region with the monopoly water supplier planning eight years of price increases to pay for capital works.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Winner (Kaikohe, Northland)
We should not have to pay for water. It is a free resource, or should be, because the Government does not make the water, and it must be considered a fraudulent practice. I think the New Zealand Government will reap something pretty awful if they continue to charge for water. We have flouridated water here, and it burns my tongue. We are expected to pay for that. It is also supposed to damage teeth, rather than make them better. It may even damage pipes, or plumbing. We should not have to pay for that.
Philip
Time to invest in a water tank and use this to run the washing machine, which is where we use most of our water.
Suzy (Pakuranga)
Well someone has to pay for the Waikato pipeline the investors put in regardless of it not being needed. Also somebody has to fund the black gunge that now forms in fish tanks since Waikato water was piped to Auckland, that can't be cheap. The black slime doesn't form with freebee rainwater, so stop whingeing, you are getting something for your money.
Frank (Brisbane)
We moved from Auckland to Brisbane in December last year. Our landlord pays about $250 per year for our water, and we have a massive shortage of the stuff. Our tenants in Auckland pay that on average every three months. The house next door in Brisbane was for sale for 1.2M and upon inquiry we found that its annual rates are $850. Man, man, what's going on Auckland?
John (Torbay)
There is a really easy answer. Remove the wholesale and retail monopolies by changing the bylaws to allow rainwater collection from residential and commercial roofs. This would address the sustainability initiatives that the government is promoting and storm water issues that local authorities are having to cope with from ongoing development. Technologies exist that would ensure that this is a safe drinking supply although many of grew up drinking this sort of water and it does not seem to have done us any harm. This would allow individuals and body corporates to make their own decisions on whether they would invest in the technology or continue to have the existing supply. Typical Auckland City Council thinking. It is why they lost the V8s to Hamilton, why they don't have the guts to reclaim the container terminal and why they buckled to a bunch of yuppie lawyers at Western Springs.
John
A great effort by water pressure group with finally getting central govt to look at the blatant Hubbard and Hucker secret closed door water rates ripoff.
Colin England
Free market rules do not apply in a situation where there is a monopoly distribution network. To try and bring in competition to the water 'market' would do the same to water reticulation as happened to the phone system since privatisation. The maintenance and increased reticulation needs to paid for somehow. This can either be done through rates which will push the rates bill up even further or through a user pays system meaning that the price of water will go up. The second option is the better option as water is a limited resource so by increasing the cost of the water will decrease the use of that water and so allow for that resource to be better and more efficiently used. This will benefit everyone including the environment. If the price rises are justifiable or not is another question but hopefully the parliamentary committee can answer that question as we certainly can't because we don't have the necessary information available to us.
Adam
I have a few questions. Are Watercare and Metrowater different companies? The difference between buying for 45 cents per 1000 litres and selling it for $1.41 seems a lot or isn't it? Water is set to increase for the next 8 years. Does this mean that it stops in year 9. Council said the increase would be inflation plus 1 per cent per annum. It's gone up over 9 per cent in 10 months. What is the reason for the unexpected increase? Why did the council vote in secret on this matter? Will the parliamentary committee be meeting in secret? If not, then can they tell us what happened in the secret council meeting?
Balbeer Golian
I totally disagree for any increase in rates, this would make people use less water for any hygiene reason, people get sick which would cost more to government in treatment. Foodborne diseases will arise if body is not cleaned, hands not washed or any other reason trying to save water to save money.
Christopher Wilton
This is what happens when you employ unskilled labour to run the city, hopefully most of the council and most definately the so-called mayor will all be looking for work shortly.
Vicki (Auckland)
The water rates increase is just part of the general rates increase. The council need to cut costs rather than keep increasing our rates. This council will be voted out for sure.
Russ
Absoluely not justafiable. Councils have too much power, are undemocratic and need to stop milking the passive ratepayers, whose voices are ignored. Elections coming up, so some council members should start looking for new jobs.
Concerned Apartment house owner
he cost of living in Auckland city is getting too expensive. My fixed waterbill at my apartment complex in town is $1.90 a day! Plus I also get charges for Cold water, heating of the hot water and wastewater usage. So even if I didnt use the water for a month I'll still get charged $57 for the month! It doesn't matter if I'm living in a 1 bm, 2 bm or 3bm place you simply gets charged this. My 2bm apartment cost me $120 for 25 days usage of water.And If the rates increase higher up the chain, I'm sure the reseller will feel obliged to do the same.Shooting ourselves in the foot.
Dave (Palmerston North)
Ever since government divested its responsibilities in regards to infrastructure to private companies, it also gave up on any commitment to the welfare of its citizens. Everything is now governed by price, with profit being the primary factor, and provision of the service languishing somewhere lower down the list. Genesis Energy's last justification for its annual hike in power charges - "to make an acceptable return on our assets". Of course, local or central government have no qualms about this, as they reap their dividends regardless. The consumer is the one who is getting steadily screwed.
Nick (Auckland)
This is absolutely ridiculous that the rates have to go up again. When they do it the first time dont they consider forcasting the costs for a longer term? This is just a way of collecting money for wasteful investments eg.redoing Queen St every term of every mayor. Water is one of the basic necessities of a human being and if it gets expensive to have it, what signals are the council sending to the public?
Westie
One tends to think that Auckland is becoming too expensive an area to live in or near to.
We are constantly thrashed by either local or central government to take every single cent we have. Last week Auckland is told about a petrol tax. This week a rise in water rates over a period of time. Will the greed of both organisations never cease?We may as well bequeath the air we breath to whomever sees a dollar value out of it.
Mama Mia (Auckland)
It's absolutely immoral that Auckland City wants to make a bucket out of each bucket of drinking water. Because drinking water is a necessity made by mother nature for all of us to share and certainly not a commodity for some smart monopoly and/or politicians to profit on. Drinking water should not cost one cent more for the community than what it takes to purify it, pump it out to consumers, as well as a reasonable profit to keep the water works up to scratch. Dick Hubbard's move to make a fat profit for some monopoly is simply too immoral. Hope a lot of Aucklanders will remember that when it's time to vote for a new council.
NeillR
I voted for John Banks and I will again.
Kiwiwik (Napier)
It constantly surprises me how businesses in a monopoly situation can manipulate the facts and we let them get away with it. The businesses that are in a monopoly situation always appear to be Government or council run, (the power supply companies, the Airports, the water supply companies just to name a few), that's not free market. I know of no privately run business that is able to raise its prices by 9 per cent plus just so that it can purchase capital assets, and signal that its going to do it again and again and again, and the public of Auckland just have to sit and take it. If there was real marketplace competition then the homeowners would be able to change to another more price competitive supplier. The next thing they will think of is that they will revalue their assets (which of course Joe public has just paid for) and demand a realistic return on the assets, so they will hike the price of water again. Don't say it wont happen, it happened with the power companies, and it happened with the airports. "Let the public rise up and their voice be heard, let there be heads on stakes again".
Shaz (Manly)
Just when you think things can not get any harder then they are, they do.Our finance minister, hits the pay, with Kiwi Saver (did you think you would get a pay rise soon, think again. You have just been give one from the government via your boss. And the boss didn't have a say in that.)Now your council wants more money for water, what next! Rates increase. After all they have to find that money for their share to Kiwi Saver, for their staff. Yes once again it comes out of your pocket. Did you ever ask why there is Tax on Rates, after all thats what rates are, a Tax. Wheres Robin Hood when you need him?
Dismayed and fed up from Auckland
I thought in my naivety that "services" were just that, to support the community and were not expected to produce dividends. Last year in exasperation I wrote to the Mayor of Auckland expressing my concern that we ratepayers are getting a very raw deal with spiralling costs/levies such as Metrowater, escalating rates and various ways Council is making Auckland a city which is fast becoming available to only wealthy residents. This will lead to an imbalance in the community population distribution. The response was polite, but the council is quite unashamed and unapologetic about the increasing financial demands on the many residents who have contributed so much over the years to make Auckland the lovely city it once was. I get the impression that the Council is quite unconcerned that many middle to low income Aucklanders are forced to move to other areas as they cannot trust the council to keep costs fair and reasonable. Auckland is fast becoming become a haven for the very wealthy who are able to artificially push up the cost of housing. The council is greedy in its own spending, and quite absurd allowing so much high rise development and then placing more than fair burdens on ratepayers to provide more infastructure to support the often ugly and shonky developments. Enough now.How can we, the majority of very disadvantaged and unhappy ratepayers be heard? The ballot box does not provide answers.
Sue
Well why not? When we are levied/taxed for the air we breathe the cycle will be complete. What these greedy corporate minded fools forget is that it is the average citizen who feeds their pursestrings and once that source is dried up no one wins financially.
Ecoholic in Auckland
Other cities encourage water efficiency, especially with appliances. How about GST rebates on water efficient washing machines and dish washers? Spending more on an efficient appliance saves $$ on future water usage.
DC
Hubbard has promised alot and only delivered higher costs of living for Aucklanders! Time for the mayor to get voted out of office! He has not given us anything to cheer about! Time for a change of council!/span>
Alwin
There is no reason except greed for NZers to have to pay such a high price for water. 95 per cent of a households water usage is wastage, baths washing machines etc. 5 per cent is therefore used for drinking. My question is why do we have to have expensive treatment plants to sanitise it. Surely we can use our stream, river and dam water as it is. If a person wants drinking water, then go out and buy the super purified stuff./span>
David
The price of water in Auckland City is unreasonably high. With so much rain in Auckland, it is high time that everyone should store their rain water in tanks to beat the water board. I think the people who runs the water board is a mad bunch of robbers!! Australia has little rain and do not rob from their people by charging them high water bills.
One of Auckland's water battlers
I've been active for now 10 years in two Auckland community groups battling commercialisation of water services and flat and user charges. Citizens Against Privatisation stopped Waitakere City Council forming a Water Late in 1997, same year Auckland City set up Metrowater. The Water Pressure Group has so far failed in valiant efforts to get Auckland City Council to abolish this company and make water services again a Council department, with water charges from property-valued rates. Our experience proves that with flat or user charges, the sky's the limit for price rises, because, as well documented by Council officials, user pays the rich. And hits the majority poor. 3 elections have changed this only for the worse. Get organised, people, on the streets, with neighbours and workmates. If we don't fight we lose.
ROBO
I live in the west and can see by this latest rates rise that all of the mayors of the greater Auckland area seem to think just like the politicians in government. We need to show them the door asap and even boycott Companies like Hubburds to show just how much taking money out of peoples pockets to line your own can really hurt.Today rates tomorrow their salaries
Thirsty
New zealand, clean,green,mean,greedy,costly but a land of opprtunity for big bullies who wants to make lots of money.power,fuel,water, waste water,food,tax,more tax on tax, on what ever you do. We pay tax when we earn,when we save and when we spent.more and more people are going overseas because of these non stop price rise and tax.fuel price go up everyday but comes down very little.wages and salary should go up same way as price rise, but it does not happen as often.P eople are going to find it hard to buy a house,drive a car and so on.Anyway who really cares? Mr. mayor certainly does not look like that he cares in the photo.
Sam
Aucklanders stop whining you say like a pack of moaning Poms, I suppose you want to central Govt who pays for your road to pay for your water as well?. By the way I live upstream from the Waikato and oh my the water is not the cleanest to say the least. Polluted by all the heavy industry, other chemicals, affluent, dumped by paper mills and farmers. Yummy... Now getting back to you monuments. Councils love to build giant egomanical edifice to themselves before they leave office or name a building after themselves for posterity. I don't think you should be paying for those anytime soon. Buy some ergonomic showers have least baths and cut down on your consumption
Nini(Auckland)
How can this rise be justified? They throw numbers and figures at us and we are supposed to just pay it with no recourse. There are astronomical profits being made here that cannot be denied. Short of moving out of Auckland, the average householder just has to lump it. It's water, not gold!
Martin Clark
I am a High School teacher of 20 years teaching experience in Auckland. I love the city and its environment, but the increases in petrol tax, water and the general cost of living is forcing me to consider relocating outside the area in a place where cost of living is more sustainable.
Howard in Ottawa
Here on the Ottawa River, my total 2006 water bill was C$ 307 for a house in the city of Ottawa with three people...we don't water our lawn much because we rely on God who brings us snow sleet rain and hail...the city incorporates a tax in this total and also there is GST now at 6 per cent.We flew from Fiji to Auckland last year, drove over North & South Island, and avoided one town on South Island which had run out of water. As the Prince of Wales said, "Something must be done..." at these prices, maybe we should be sending tankers from Canada.
Matthew
Yes. Welcome to the real world New Zealand. Clean water is a globally scare and valuable commodity. "We don't know how lucky we are" Just wait 10 years and that may change to "If its brown, drink it down, if its black, send it back". NZers need to be careful with our water.
Allan King
Water, the gift of the almighty, sent to this earth so that the populous may survive and take in its pleasures. This resource, is now controlled by the greedy, who have to vote like leeches, or thieves in a room, closed to those who voted them in. Surely the administration of councils is nothing else but the attendance of the Trustees of the people upon the interests, and affairs of the people and at the whim of the people. There is no doubt, that the fact that they had to vote in secret shows what cowards they are. There is no doubt that the people who voted them in will now have to vote them all out, lock stock and with both barrels. These gutless council despots will no doubt now start to fear the backlash, and maybe an approach to the Governor General for their immediate dismissal would be the order of the day.
NG
Auckland City Council has to rate as the most badly run, costly, egotistic, exclusionary and inept local body that we have ever thrown up. You just have to look at the record of Hucker and Hubbard and compare it, not only to their (admittedly unpopular) predecessor, but any other local body that we have had, either now or in the past. Even the grossly extravagant, self gratifying ARC of the 80's (built huge, grey, useless monument to themselves) were paragons of management by comparison. Forget the next election, we need a revolution.
Margot
I voted for Dick as I thought he was an astute business man who would run the city in an efficient manner and work on behalf of rate payers. Like many people, I'm embarrassed about my poor decision. I wonder if he went to Helen's school of politics? Please accept my sincerest apologies John.
pCb - Newly Poor in Auckland
First up we always knew where Dr Hucker stood but our Mayor has proven himself to be a very political animal (Mr Hubbard that is not meant to be a complement . .). I am looking forward to seeing the back of many of this current rabble. They appear to have provided nothing of any value apart from protracted conflict with many of their voters and a great amount of heated debate (usually in private when they feel they will not get their own way). How about an article showing just what the rest of metropolitan New Zealand pay for their rates and water?
Aucklander
I don't like paying more but I think it is justified and required. Politically I believe in user-pays and as I use a lot of water (and create a lot of waste) I expect to be charged for it. If I want to run my washing machine 3 times a day, that's my choice and neither the government nor my neighbours should be expected to pay for it. Environmentally I also believe that we are responsible for all natural resources that we abuse. Rising prices might help keep demand down and therefore contribute in a small way to better environmental practices.
Dick (Waiheke)
Bureaucratic 'paralysis by analysis' moves on waste-water treatment charges by Metrowater have been both costly and unacceptable to Waiheke Island residents. Although rainwater catchments are collected free of all charges to city-dwellers, Metrowater officialdom recently instituted inflated waste-water charges, by alleging inferior quality in local drinking water.- Their obvious answer was city-wide reticulation for Hauraki Gulf Island residents, despite widespread opposition from 'self-sufficient' Waiheke Islanders.-Aucklanders should be better off without Metrowater Ltd, altogether? Public rainwater catchment provides the most economic answer, to increased water charges!
Mainland Jaffa
Despite his obvious hollow election promises, it would appear that Mr Cereal King is detemined to make Auckland a place of poverty. I cannot see Auckland retaining its sense of vibrancy if these costs continue to escalate as the colourful people will financially be forced to move away leaving only the wealthy and those so poor they can't even afford to move.Crime will increase as those people struggle to meet their daily needs. Living in Auckland is becoming a financial noose around peoples necks. Shame, as an ex mainlander I defend its vibrancy to all who would knock us down south, but financially, I may have to consider moving back just to have a lifestyle. Bring back John Banks please.
Tony
As I have said many times in the past in any budget we must strive to have a balance as in "Law of Diminishing Returns" always applies. Spend too much it's a waste - spend too little you achieve nothing of importance. At this point in time I wish the people who makes decisions to bear all this in mind. When you implement decisions you are basing on your point of view and standards as the current Mayor Mr.Hubbard rightly points out his choice to push through this proposed increase in our water rates.May I remind him that he will need to take all others' circumstances into considerations to this increase as not all of us are in his financial position/status. Well and good intentions to 'improve' the Auckland standards but whose Standards matters most-the minority who can afford these increases or the majority who like myself are struggling at our best? Are the current local councils in Auckland doing a good job or is there a lot of waste and inefficiency? Please- a good leader must and should always take the interest of majority the people into consideration all the time. The people at the bottom always needs help. The people in the middle needs help to keep moving along. The people at the top needs help to appreciate what they already have.That's Life Mate.
Vicki (Auckland)
Dick Hubbard and Bruce Hucker are ensuring their demise from office. People vote with their wallets and bank balances these days and everytime there is a rate rise of any sorts people have long memories when it comes time to vote - Helen Clark and her team have the same problem. Bring on the Elections!
Mel
Lets brings on the city council elections. Man, I am going to spend as much money and resources required to send Dick back to his cereal factory. He has done nothing for this great city of ours...comes on the media as being a charmer and people's person and yet he is the opposite. Water is supposed to be a natural resource and should be available at reasonable cost to cover for delivery costs....not to pay for Vector Arena and maintenance on Aotea Square. What next, they might start charging for the use of air as well?
Marc Why is it that our neighbours, Waitakere City Council actively promote and I believe subsidise rainwater collection and resuse in both their rural and urban neighbourhoods, but in Auckland City this kind of approach is not promoted (search rainwater resuse on the two councils websites and compare) and is very difficult to get consented. I think we should be taking a look to our Westie neighbours for the lead here.
Metrowater customer How can such continual price hikes be allowed to occur without ratepayers having their say? After all we are the ones paying the rates for our city and also of course the salaries of the numerous council workers and councillors. The day that Metrowater broke away from Auckland City and became a LATE (Local Authority Trading Enterprise) was the day that even more additional costs could be levied at rate payers - very similar to the ARC and transport etc costs. All these groups are doing what one council body did some years ago for the one entity; I refer to in particular, Auckland City. They operate under the guise of offering separate services to the people of Auckland, but really they are part and parcel of the Council, so why have separate institutions, top heavy with councillors, and too many managers etc. We need good clean water of that there is no argument, but excessive, ongoing increasing charges are not justifiable. Use your vote wisely in the next election is all that can be said, because you get what you vote for. Our mayor Dick Hubbard came in on the ticket that he would not increase rates excessively - this has proved to be a darn right lie.
