KEY POINTS:
Reader Jamcam writes: Great, Make these Jafas pay for their own transport problems. But some Aucklanders say enough is enough. Others are happy with reported plans for 10c a litre to be added to the cost of fuel in Auckland in a bid to help fund roading projects and the electrification of Auckland's suburban rail.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Lucy Hawcroft
I appreciate the balanced coverage you gave of the Auckland Petrol tax issue. As a motorist and a cyclist I am totally in favour of such a tax. I would suggest that all of such a tax should be spent on public transport infrastructure. The councils fear that many Auckland drivers may be enraged to see their money being spent on trains and buses; services which they consider a waste of cash because they don't use them. However, I would argue that in fact, a better public transport system, and especially an electrified rail system would benefit all of us, whether we used it or not. Here are 4 reasons why:
1) It would save us time. Taking the train/bike/bus to work creates less congestion than driving a car. If it was an easier/more attractive option then more Aucklanders would take it, there would be less cars on the roads, and we would all get to work a little quicker.
2) It would save us money (in taxes and rates) that would have gone on maintaing roads in the future. Roads are by far the most expensive item in the Land Transport Budget. They are also the most expensive item on the rates bill. Taking the bike/train minimises wear and tear on Auckland's roads.
3) It would save us money (in taxes) that will soon be needed to offset NZ's climate change causing emissions. In 2012 NZ will be liable for a bill of anywhere between $60 million to $1.2 billion. Since transport generates more than 40 per cent of our CO2 emissions, an electrified train system (running mainly off renewables) would save us all a great deal in the long run.
4) It would improve our health. Since air pollution from vehicles is estimated to kill about 400 Aucklanders a year, the more of us who stop driving to work the better. My only reservations about the government's proposed petrol tax is that they must not use the debate it will (inevitably) spark off as an excuse to delay their decision on electrification of Auckland's rail system. The government should guarantee Auckland funding for an electrified rail system, just as it has guaranteed Transit funding for numerous state highways around the country. In comparison with the big cities of Asia and Europe, Auckland's public transport system is pitiful. Other cities with a sparse population, like Perth in Australia, successfully introduced electrified rail systems 20 years ago. Wellington has had electric rail for more than 40 years. Aucklanders must seize this opportunity to catch up with the rest of the world. Without a decent public transport system, our city will never be able to offer truly high quality living.
Robert
Can I point out that if (never mind any more taxes) the congestion problem was fixed, we could all get off the motorway sooner, using less petrol, therefore not paying as much tax. So the more the government taxes and actually fixes the problem the less they get back. No inventive to fix the problem really! They are all looking at the problem the wrong way!
Robert
Fix the bloody problem! Stop trying to get everyone talking about it, so that there is the appearance of something being done. If we had a tax of an extra $1 for every Auckander (not even worth contemplating) and it actually went to roading in the Auckland region, not the consolidated fund. we could collect a couple of billion dollars a year . So what? What the hell are you going to do with it? Where are you going to put the new roads? How are you going to build more motorways where there is no land? An Auckland railway system was first contemplated in 1912, we're still waiting. With or without a tax, if you had the money, how does it help? I suggested we build the new stadium outside of Auckland limits at the end of a new motorway, between two valleys, one for the stadium, the other levelled for car parking, - nothing else in the area except the stadium, and motorway. It could become an 24/7 events centre. Caveats on building houses within 5km of the radius. This would give a reason to stop Auckland central getting jammed and would justify motorways around Auckland. One thing leads to another, Am I the only one that follows this principle, or are our elected politicians just stupid? If we had the money, how can you fix the congestion problem. My Suggestion: Congestion is the symptom - not the problem.
At peak hour - make all exits off the motorways green light - motorway empty - no congestion - just needs a reorganisation of exit streets to allow cars to move! Further thoughts - We have already agreed to pay an extra 4c per litre years ago, We have already agreed to pay an extra 2c on our power accounts to stop us running out of power, Does anyone else see a problem here?
Maureen Madigan
No I dont agree with the petrol tax. Why doesn't Cullen use some of his surplus to finish the roads, and fix the transport woes? .I'm sick to death of this government and their" we'll just put on another tax" attitude.When are the Labour followers going to wake up to the fact that this country is fast going down the gurgler under this government?
The Silver Fox
The suggested 10 cent extra petrol tax for Auckland would not only affect motorists but also boaties and recreational lawnmowing enthusiasts, of whom there are many, who would get no benefit at all from roading projects and rail elecrification. Many years ago, in the mists of time, one could claim a refund of petrol tax if petrol was used for other reasons other than motoring. As for those who constantly whine about paying for Auckland roads, just stop and consider for a moment just who probably contributes the most towards the roads they use and the roads throughout the country.
NeillR
No, I am not happy. In 2005, the government said that they would reduce the amount of tax taken for the consolidated fund to pay for Auckland's transport: http://www.beehive.govt.nz/transport-package/fact-sheet-two.cfm. Like so much of what Labour says, it's very different from what they do. Over the 30 or so years that NZers have been contributing petrol tax to the consolidated fund, successive governments have reaped around $9bn which has been squandered on welfare, dodgy bureaucratic programs (twilight golf and basket-weaving spring to mind) and other schemes at the expense of a properly funded highway system. Aucklanders have already paid for the motorway system many times over and it's high time this government stopped double dipping and gave us the roading that was promised since the 70's.
PD
One thing is for sure, Helen & co need not look to seeing my vote for them in the ballot box, it is going to the opposition. As for Sir Barry of Manukau City who so enthusiastically supports this idea - he can kiss my vote goodbye at the same time.
Robert
No I don't back the petrol tax. It seems to me that over the last 30 years I have already been paying a petrol tax which has gone into the coffers, not to be spent on roads, but every other thing. as to those one eyed bigots living south of the Bombays who say stick it to the Jaffas, I say this " this is coming to a council near you" so don't get too cocky.
FTC
I want to question all those government officials who hold top position using free vehicles they pool vehicle with fellow employees?. I reckon if they start pooling cars a substantial amount of fuel will be saved and we will have fewer cars on the road. However, I have my doubts whether this will ever be implemented as they have their own ego levels. Its high time we Aucklanders unite and see that this government is kicked out in the next elections.
Ms Auckland
No, drop the idea of a 10c a litre petrol tax and get going on an Auckland Rapid Rail Scheme instead. Because, whereas oil and petrol will soon run out and be a thing of the past a new and efficient rail system will last forever, and solve many more of Auckland's mounting traffic problems than a useless tax levy would ever manage to do. And also replace that lot of so-called "traffic experts" with people who have visions and brains.
Gavin M
Winge,Winge,Winge.I want,I want,but let someone else pay for it!! We need a decent road system in Auckland & this looks like the only way we are going to get it.I for one am sick of sitting in traffic. The improvements seem to already be happening, lets keep the momentum going & move into the 21st century. I only hope they put a larger share to improving public transport. Lets get a railway running from the Airport to Britomart across the new Mangere Bridge-what with airport travellers & commuters I would have thought this would be economically viable & would only lead to more rail custom(electrified or otherwise).If we don't start moving forward now when will it ever happen,it certainly isn't going to get any cheaper!
Albert
Nnot sure if the 10cts increase is GST inclusive? If not, watch for another bumper tax collection for Cullen. I submitted a remit to the land transport last year and made some suggestions. I predicted an increase in public transport fares the way things are being run. true to my prediction, there was an increase recently. now, with a 10cts increase in petrol, just be prepared for another round of fare hike. All the above will contribute to one thing - inflation which translates to Bollard having the excuse of increasing the OCR again. And the suckers? That's right, you and me!!!
Theodore
Interesting view, as that of Auckland's Mayors. Is their project to support a general increase of the cost of living, that is always correlated with an increase in the cost of petrol? Before setting another tax, their lordships need to look at the infrastructure of other widely spread cities in the world and adopt to local conditions anything that works overseas. Take for instance the city of Berlin, in Germany. With a population less than double that of Auckland, Berlin is a very spread-out city: it has around 60 kms in diameter, hence probably a surface comparable to the that of Auckland. Berlin has got an excellent network of rapid urban trains, underground, buses, trams and regional trains (tickets cost between §2.20 and §4.50). Have a look here http://www.bvg.de/index.php/en/Common/Document/field/file/id/1398 for the underground/rapid trains network and here http://www.bvg.de/index.php/en/Common/Document/field/file/id/1399) for trams and buses.In Berlin it used to take 35 minutes (and $7) to drop my kids at a school situated at 10 kms from home and I only travelled by bus or by rapid train.
Pierce
A 10c petrol tax is ludicrous. We already pay too much tax on everything and the government is looking for a way to tax Aucklanders more because there are simply more of us living here. What does our petrol tax - which is supposed to be spent on roads actually go to? We also had a 4c petrol tax increase a few years back specifically for roads. Does this mean that when we fill up our cars, vans, utes and trucks with gas that we are not paying for the upkeep of our roads but for something that should be paid out of other funds? It is about time the government decides that Auckland's traffic and public transport system are to be fixed and future proofed so when these changes are made we do not have to build more roads because the roads we build now are too small in 5 years to cope with the traffic. I say hasten the Resource Management so we can build these roads faster!
Kt
When you think about it, 5 cents is fair enough as currently roads around the South Island have recently been reported to have been put back a few years just because of Auckland roads. They should definitely be responsible for paying this as people in the rest of the country currently pay taxes for Aucklanders to get a so-called priority for road funding and transport. Just remember back to last year when Aucklanders were 'more important' when they reported a black out and had no coffee, ahead of South Islanders who were isolated in the snow for a few days and even several weeks! The same sort of thing is happening. Maybe someone should allocate the road funding and transport around New Zealand so we all get our own fair share which could improve across the country and not just in Jafaland. So yea I think it is fair enough for 5 cents petrol tax under the current situation!
Greg
It's got my vote - don't expect the rest of NZ to accept an increase in the "special" tax that is already being paid to build roads in Auckland. Have a look at all the whinging Aucklanders participating in this forum stating that they are the life blood of NZ - that they contibute enough to our economy. Why do so many people want to cram into a little piece of dirt called Auckland anyway? If businesses and population spread out in this beautiful country we wouldn't have a transport crisis!
Iain
Petrol is already way over priced. How about you look into whats going on with oil companies in New Zealand ? Try upping petrol tax across the country not just in Auckland. People seem to forget where the centre of commerce is in New Zealand. Its Auckland, not Cowpokeville.
Allan King
Any 10c increase in fuel tax will only end up in the Consolidated Fund, where most of the 64c a litre goes already. Stop importing cars, then the problem will be solved. Then get the Chinese , Japanese, or Germans to construct a rapid rail system as they seem to understand what is required to move lots of people in a hurry. Mind you, it will never happen , the Government is too greedy as it needs the fuel tax to make the books look good.
Warwick
Reply to T Kenney about upping anchor and off to Australia. Mate! I am ex kiwi and it is the same here in Queensland. My advice? Stay where you are enjoy the great food and beaut weather!
Jono
I'm sure a few years back there was a 4c increase in petrol tax for this very reason. Infact, on April 1st this year it was increased in line with inflation. 10c/L tax on an already overtaxed product is ridiculous, and what's worse is that the way it all works, we'll be paying GST on top of that as well, although the governemnt will deny this. This government does not deserve to be in power, all it will achieve in the long run is driving the hard working, skilled people overseas, at which point who is going to pay the taxes and benefits of the lower income families? Build the roads so Auckland has the capacity to cope with future growth, don't just meet the needs of today. Then once the roads are done, make the public transport system work, link buses, trains and ferries together as one network, make them affordable, convenient and quick. And do it with the vast amount of money that Aucklanders have contributed for many years to government coffers, but havent seen their fair share returned.
Sonia
Interesting. The government has sat back and had a look at the traffic problems in Auckland and thought "What can we do to fix this?". Any person with half a brain would say fix up the public transport system, make it more efficient, user friendly and cost effective. Of course, the government thinks "How can we fix this problem without spending any money? Even better, how can we fix the problem by making more money for ourselves! I know, lets charge them all an extra 10c per litre of petrol. We know most of them wont use public transport anyway and the public transport providers are also going to have to pay us more as they will also be affected by the tax! Brilliant!" typical. When exactly are the government/regional council going to accept that Auckland is a growing city, it is just going to get bigger and bigger - they actually need to act now to fix up our public transport and roads before it is too late.
Sandy D
I think it's a great idea. Go Helen!
Dave
No I am not happy about the proposed (certain?) extra fuel tax! Collect it from those who take vehicles into the CBD - a congestion charge. My car never goes into the CBD, only occasionally to Greenlane. I use the train. I never cause congestion - why should I contribute to more roads that will attract even more cars. It will be similar for many thousands lower-paid (ex-Labour?) workers in the outer suburbs.
Richard
I can honestly see Aucklanders suffering to live in major cities around the world, as many places have tolls on roads to pay for the roads. Aucklanders just seem to want it all and not do anything for it. At the same time, it is time that the govt, local and regional be made accountable for the taxes they are already getting. While I think that any major city should have tolls etc to help pay for work to the roads, it shouldn't have to be a large amount, not if their is accountability within the corrupt money hungry local and central govts that tax people and do what ever they feel like with the money, giving to and building white elephants. Take a look at Timaru, despite the fact the people don't want it, they are going ahead with building a multi million dollar swimming complex, and lets not forget the $18,000 just spent on two park benches in Timaru.
Matt Wilson
Currently all petrol is taxed. Rather than placing another petrol tax based on a regions roading needs why does the govt / infrastructure dept allocate the current tax revenues from a region to that region and then see what the shortfall is and adjust tax regionally from there. I suspect that currently the petrol tax revenue from Auckland is not used exclusively for Auckland roads which means that the rest of NZ is being cross subsidised by Auckland. Realign this and then adjust the tax regionally.
Albert Morgan
What happened to the special 4 cents a litre tax that was introduced for this purpose two or three years ago? Not a dickybird about that from anywhere or anybody.
Alex
Ban it or tax it !! That is the entire scope of vision occupied by our politicians. And when the NZ dollar falls back to a sensible level of say 60 cents against the US dollar, petrol will cost $2 a litre. How loud will the wailing be then ? Petrol taxes are high enough already, the govt and councils have plenty of money but they continue to squander it - time they started to take some responsibility themselves. Electrification of Aucklands rail network is a joke because there is no network to begin with - less than a quarter of the city could even potentially use rail as a public transport option. These politicians are space cadets who have had their noses in the trough for too long.
Adrian
Very happy to pay an additional tax for infrastructure improvements in Auckland as it will make moving around easier for me as an Aucklander. The only question I have is why does the tax I pay as an Auckland have to be spent in other regions? Maybe if the tax take from companies, individuals who reside in Auckland was used for the benefit of Auckland and not other regions then Auckland would not have the current infrastructure issues. If you want to live in a region outside of Auckland and want to have all the benefits of infrastructure then pay for it yourselves instead of winning at Aucklanders on the one hand and taking their tax money on the other.
Matt
Time for Auckland to secede from the rest of the country if this goes ahead! Auckland contributes over 40 per cent of the government's revenues including current petrol taxes. Current petrol taxes aren't being spent on roads so why should we believe they will this time. The government has a massive surplus - the government is supposed to pay from the country's infrastructure. Why should we be asked to pay once more when some of the surplus could be earmarked for Auckland's roads -basically we would be getting our own tax money back.
Daniel Sloan
For years, Auckland has been funding the roads of areas outside of our boundaries. As our result our roads are in dire straights and we have a non-existent public transport system. Bus trips cost 2x what they do in Christchurch. It's time Auckland got its fair share of roading and public transport funding, and totally rethink the method of constructiing a transport system. It isn't working. The rest of the country needs to grow up - you've had your free ride, you got your funding and for once, it's our turn. Never mind the economic benefits to the whole country, why just not have a whinge. It's our turn.
Benita
Its a dilemma. We clearly need the public transport to be upgraded before people will use it. This will cost. As so many have said, it will have to be comfortable, safe, cost effective and go where and when people need it. We are well served if we want to go into the central city, but across suburbs is often near impossible. But to ask North Shore residents who have no access to trains to subsidise those is unreasonable - to say the least! We live close to the "Park & Ride" and both work within 10 km of home, but impossible to get bus transport to work that would not be less than an hour of travel and over $10 per day - our small cars get us there in about 15mins for about $25 a week. We very rarely go over the Bridge, and virtually never in peak times. There are countless others in similar positions, so why should we pay this crippling tax on top of already overloaded taxes? Maybe a small regional levy, but put Tolls on the congested routes so that those that use the m pay for them - including those main roads which have the rail services as alternative choices!
Simon Hutton
More tax?You have got to be kidding!!! This current government is trying to milk us dry! On the topic of petrol prices. Why did petrol go up another 4c yesterday??? Our dollar is strong vs the US dollar, the price of oil hasn't gone up. The petrol companies say they don't make a profit, yet they put up all these flash new stations and digital price displays even. No, they can't be making any money to be doing that can they? Why don't they reduce Helen Clark's wages as well as all the other politician's wages too. That should cover it! As a boat owner I will also be penalised for this hard worked for small pleasure by having to pay 10c extra per litre of petrol to run that too. This current government has got to go! Roll on the next election and just hope that NZers are more onto it this time!
Michael J
I think we can all agree that its time to get rid of the labour government. I have to apologise to my fellow NZ'ers as I was one of the fools who voted them in. Never again. That said this issue is confused by correspondents like 'Blue' who need to get their facts straight. As per the recent Herald article, Auckland pays more tax and road tax proportionally than the rest of New Zealand. It is infact the people south of the Bombay who are getting the free ride.
Martina
Since nearly a third of the New Zealand's population lives and pays taxes in Auckland, surely we should be entitled to have nearly a third of the government's transport budget spent in the region. If more needs to be spent, and only in that case, an additional petrol tax is a better option than tolls, as drivers might make detours and clog up untolled roads, causing additional pollution in order to avoid paying.
Robert
Ummmm, haven't there been 2 previous rounds of petrol taxes since Helen was voted in? I seem to recall that the last one was 5.6c + GST and there was another of 4c + GST before that. Weren't these previous taxes supposed to "fix" Aucklands public transport and road problems or am I the only one that remembers these promises?
Bill
I agree with Nikki - I thought there was already a special tax element on the whole country to pay for this. Really though tolls are the better option, even non Aucklanders will also have to pay those. However, this is a tough decision and both local and district councils and Government are not well known for making those sort of decisions.
T Kenney
Great, just another reason to move to Australia & join the thousands of other kiwi's that have had enough of this govt penalising hard working NZ'rs.
Michelle
I'm happy to pay an extra 10c a litre provided there's some accountability - it needs to go into a separate bucket and expenditure accounted for. However, has anyone considered the rippled effects of the additional tax - increased transportation costs, increased food costs? We're all going to be worse off.
Chris
Look forward to a National Government next year - Labour seems to be doing it's best to get dumped. Mind you, National will give us little or no public transport funds so we'll all be driving!
Craig
If we are to get slammed with a 10c/L tax I think it can be used a lot more wisely than the electrification of rail. For a start it was only a couple of years ago we were told that NZ doesn't have the means to produce enough power for the growing population so a small power station was built in haste. Now we want to use a huge amount of electricity to move trains around..hmmm this smells a bit like a Greens Party influence. Secondly, I live on the North Shore and work in Penrose...How is this electrification of rail going to benefit anyone living on the Shore? Surely one of the main priorities has to be the Victoria Park flyover. Thirdly, Being a boating person why should I have to pay the 10c/L tax on fuel for my boat. I pay the trailer registration of which a portion is meant to go to maintaining the roads etc. And lastly, what happened to the billions of dollars our wonderful government has in surplus from over taxing us?
Mike
Simple - Simply give the taxes paid in Auckland back to the Auckland region: $4 billion a year would pay for a lot of roads and railways. Let the rest of the country pay for their education and health infrastructure. We are sick of supporting the rest of the country to the detriment of our standard of living. And as for Tolls on roads - why penalise those who have no choice but to use the roads because public transport is so bad.
Jenni
It seems that as our wages get no higher, our taxes just get larger and larger. Where does this leave us? In a lot of debt and where does that leave the economy? Not in good shape! The governments interventions seem to be in the wrong places - we have a nursing shortage yet the government has not put money into paying the nurses more (many earn less than 24$ an hour!) and attracting them to stay in New Zealand. We have roading problems - we have had them for as long as I remember yet traffic is fine during school holidays. Has anyone addressed why this is? There are other solutions to our problems, the government needs to start putting money our money in the right places, we pay them to make the good decisions for us - they are not doing a good job!
A.Hooper
What a lot of posters here seem to be fail to recognise is that increasing the cost of petrol will reduce congestion, meaning they'll need less fuel (because they won't burn so much of it idling in Auckland's gridlock) and they will also save time too. It's going to take some adjustment for all of us, but something does have to be done. If we always take the easy way out, instead of dealing with problems now, the problems snowball and that's when we really start to suffer.NZ's current petrol price is the 4th lowest (equal with Australia) in the OECD, as shown in this graph: http://www.dpmc.gov.au/publications/energy_future/chapter5/2_introduction.htm
Paul
For me, I dont realy care. I dont have a car, I've never had a car,and I'm not planning on getting one now, or in the future.
D. Elliott
Quite simply New Zealander's pay some of the highest taxes in the OECD countries. We should not have more added to the overburdoned tax payer for more infrastructure costs. Are councils handling our rate money wisely? I would be doubtful about this seeing the mess and muddle in our street recently for months on end in just getting new footpaths laid, and the overall project is still not completed by the private contractor engaged to do the work. We all have to budget when handling our own money and put by for contingencies whenever possible. Public transport, or the lack of it, has always been a political hot potato in Auckland. Perhaps the Auckland councils' could raise funds by a special bonds issue for improvement to the public transport system. After all many Kiwis seem to have dollars to spend on Lotto each week. I would suggest that they would get a better return on an issue of local authority bonds. And first things first - forget building more and more roads into the city - focus on a good public transport system and ban the car from not only Queen Street but further out. We would all get used to it in time.
Skpp
Absolutely fantastic way of snatching money from common man in the name of addional tax. We are already paying 5c and now another 10 cents. Low wages, high petrol prices, high taxes, high rent high cost of commodities, and now high interest. Give me a break. When others says save money, .can we really after every element of household tends to become so expensive.
Gav
They've already been getting our millions from road user charges and other forms of tax. They can improve on our transport system for a start.We are constantly giving our $$$ in and what are we getting out of it? More and more increases in petrol tax and not much else! If we improved on our public transport system, and try to get something like Melbourne, Aucklanders will appreciate it.
Steve
I do not have a huge amount of sympathy for Aucklands traffic woes which appear to be caused by apathy from all involved, ratepayers local and central government. I do however take issue with a the precedent this sets, infrastructure needs upgrading? Slap on an additional tax to solve a problem. This is manifestly unjust when 47 per cent of the price is already taken by taxes and a significant proportion of this goes into the consolidated fund. This portion of the tax take should go back to where it was derived from, road users in the form of road and transport maintenance and upgrades.
Tony Bullock
As Auckland City ratepayers we are already paying a very large levy on our rates to the ARC for 'Transport Upgrading' and many ratepayers will never get a bus route or rail network near them. This new 'Cullen levy' of 10cents is just not on ! Do what they do in Melbourne and Sydney build a new motorway. Note 'new' and place tolls on it if you want to use it, you pay. But there is always the old slower roads if you don't want to pay. I will never use public transport here as it just doesn't work for me, but excuse me, I thought we were in a 'User pays society' so put the price of bus and train tickets up!
RP
Its about time Aucklanders got together as a single force and told the politicians what to do not be told by politicians. We have 4 councils who duplicate services, no direction from anyone with common sense - why would you electrify the rail network when we cannot produce enough so called green power anyway! This is becoming a farce!
Roy Monteith
If this goes through not only should the Auckland Mayors go but so should this Government!
Ram Bobba
I totally oppose this. Already Aucklanders are facing high costs of living, this will make things even worse for us.
Judy Day
What are they thinking of ? How far do these people think we can keep pulling money out of thin air. I thought we were paying for all this in our taxes, if not where is the money going. How about the petrol companies contributing. They have more billions than we do .
Mont
If we are to believe the politicians, the reasoning behind a 'petrol tax' is to discourage car use and at the same time pay for more roads, (I had thought we were discouraging car use) and trains, trying to use an existing freight train – not a commuter train network, that runs no where near the majority of Aucklanders properties, especially if you live on the North Shore. I think the same system of payment for diesel should be adopted for payment of petrol, people should buy kilometres of travel. Then I pay for how many k