KEY POINTS:
The family at the centre of a Tenancy Tribunal hearing is looking at bringing a civil case against the police.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Fearful Neighbour
We are the victims in this scenario. We have always been the victims and will always be victims as long as this family is still here. We are not just dealing with "a family" we are dealing with a gang, maybe 2 or 3 gangs and that is why we are so fearful to be forthcoming with evidence. If this adjudicator thinks that we the neighbours are gonna come forward with a 100 per cent support to evict this family then she shouldn't have been handling this case- because we need more than Police protection to be able to give it all without fear of retalliation. There has to be a way for people like us to give evidence and feel safe. Why was she allowed to have her whole family and supporters in the court room, to again "intimidate" the neighbours who put their necks on the block to give evidence? Why was this case not held behind close doors? No public allowed!!! I want to thank the 92 per cent of NZers who are supporting us. From the bottom of our hearts thank you it is so so great for the soul to know that we have your support. I was hoping Team NZ will do it for us this morning to lift our spirits a bit, but it wasn't to be. Once again thank you and God Bless.
Temporary Kiwi, Auckland
There is a very easy solution to this problem.Housing N.Z. needs to immediately purchase the property next door to adjudicator Amanda Elliots house,and shift the Salt family in there.It would appear that most judges,adjudicators etc play "Ostrich" from the comfort of their upper class suburbs.I dont think terrorists are the real threat to our world;it is the P.C. police in governments around the world,and N.Z. is a leader.Until scum like this are severely dealt with,they will continue to be septic sores on society in general.This is the reason I am leaving N.Z. in seven months.
Primal
"Once a Landlord" commented that they owned a property which had approx $10K worth of damage done by the tenant. The Tribunal only awarded them $1,000! Is that meant to fully compensate them? "Ann, burnt landlord from years ago" had problems with a tenant who refused to pay the rent. This tenant had cited "all sorts of creative reasons as to why they should not be evicted" to the tribunal. Ann eventually sold the property at a loss due to this. "Dodgy Lawyer" has had a similar situation to the Range View Road one, which took over 2 years to sort out with the tribunal. Anyone noticing a pattern here? Rather than citing what is wrong with this tenant, I'd be ask what is wrong with the Tenancy Tribunal if they do not take into account the effect this tenant has on the surrounding neighbours? They seem to only want to stick up for the tenant and not the landlord or the community as a whole. These so called human beings have managed to generate all sorts of bad press regarding the area - who would want to buy a house in what is now a publicly recognised "bad neighbourhood"? I sure as heck wouldn't. I'm not saying the Salt's don't deserve a home or a fair trial, but their neighbours have obviously had to put up with a lot of trouble from them and they deserve some sort of respite from these people. Lastly, if the testimony of two Police Officers and an untold number of neighbours and eyewitnesses cannot effect a Tribunal's decision, what can? Will it take someone being hurt - or worse - by these people for the Tribunal to actually do anything?
Brad, California
Suggestion, like many in this forum have already mentioned. Leave the country!! Get out and move to somewhere more civilized with a better quality of life and where hard work gets you rewarded. There is so little left there. Get out and look back and it will astound you what you used to put up with in N.Z. - what you and used to think was 'normal' behaviour. Join the exodus. We finally did...moved to the US and would never go back to the crime, the ignorance, the intimidation, the dodgy weather, and a Govt. that panders to violent low-lifes, bludgers and savages, throwing your hard earned tax dollars at them to be frittered away on booze and cigarettes. If I ever hear the words 'Treaty' or 'settlement' again it will be too soon. You owe them nothing - they are too lazy to help themselves, simple as that. Move overseas and (like most who do these days) you'll never want to return there to live. See it from 'the outside' - the country - and it's society today - will both amaze and (mostly) appall you.
Sandra
It is a shame that this has happened but it does appear the HNZ have not followed the correct process in this matter which is why the tenancy has not been ended. A ten day notice to remedy a breach of any tenancy must be acted on quickly to successfully seek termination of that tenancy. By media accounts, the notice had become "stale" therefore no termination on that breach was awarded. It is regretable, but thats the law. From this point, if the neighbours complain to HNZ about any unacceptable behaviour another ten day notice can be issued, but the neighbours must complain to HNZ again if the problem persists within that ten day period. Otherwise, the notice expires and the process starts again.
Amanda
I agree with Steves comment. There are more people living in poverty in New Zealand than we would all like to believe. However there are numerous people like Ms Salt who know how to work the system and it is people like her that abuse the system that we all as taxpayers contrubute to. I think that the tenancy tribunal should be looked at because they have now set a dangerous precedent for any other cases similar to this one in the future.
Righteous (Grey Lynn)
24-hour monitored video and audio surveillance would prevent the need for helicopters, sirens, etc.The tribunal is another PC joke.
Ms Auckland
No wonder New Zealand is called Down Under. Next step is to make law abiding citizens a criminal offence.
Mora from Glenbrook
From what I can ascertain from the media, it is not the mother who is causing problems in the area but her teenage sons. If this is the case, then surely this situation requires the mother to deal effectively with her sons. Such as, giving them their marching orders and a trespass notice to back it up. I too had difficult teenage sons and these are the radical steps I had to take. My sons are now independent, have good jobs and nice stable relationships with lovely girls. Fortunately I had lovely police constables I could call on for assistance not punishment and I owned my own home so nobody could threaten my safety and sanctuary whilst I learned how to deal with my out-of control offspring. This mother too needs time and support to learn how to deal with her tough sons, not patronising "value judgements" and "homelessness."
Landlord
As a landlord I don't want bad tenants in the private sector - landlords are ordinary Kiwis who can't be responsible for social problems. But also as a landlord with a rental next to housing corp properties I don't want bad neighbours causing trouble for my own tenants. So where do bad tenants go if evicted? Under a bridge? Do we want a society of homeless people? Should we have gated communities with social workers etc on tap for problem tenants? The adjudicator was faced with a problem with no acceptable alternatives and made a hard decision. It is now up to the Salts to behave and the neighbours to report all breaches to the authorities - noise control, police and the landlord.
Neil(Auckland)
I am absolutely disgusted by this decision. This country desperately needs National to come in power and sort out the lowlifes who have been taking hard-working and decent Kiwis for a ride for the 10 years with the blessings of the socialist Labour government.
Des
It doesnt surprise me.... typical of bad management on behalf of Housing New Zealand and the Police, ie working with communities. Failed to build support and rapport with the neighbours in the street in order to have the family removed, both outsmarted by a lady living in a state house. All parties concerned will now be playing by the rules.
rossnz
It was predictable. The government creates the environment, appoints the members of the tribunal and now the PM cries crocodile tears for the innocent and threatened neighbours. When will New Zealanders realise who is causing the chaos?
Kaf
Good on our PM - at long long last we are seeing a bit of 'backbone' - This family have terrorised the whole street and who knows how many other people. This is not the NZ we want to live in. We are just getting too 'PC' here but what about the 'victims' (neighbours) rights - this woman may not have actually done the terrorising but she hasn't bought her children up to respect anything or anyone - this sort of behaviour starts back when they are small and in the home environment. You just can't let a family like this dictate the laws to NZ - Come on Housing NZ - do the right thing!!!!! Would you like to have this family as neighbours !
Ken
The verdict is not surprising. The Tenancy Tribunal allowed former tenants of mine to walk away owing over $20,000 in unpaid rental. The Tribunal allowed them to terminate the tenancy but did not order them to pay up the outstanding rent. We had no recourse whatsoever. Our lawyer told us not to bother appealing because the Tenancy Tribunal is heavily biased against landlords. I had a friend whose rental house was trashed - broken doors and walls, spilt beer, torn curtains, burn marks - and the tenants walked off with just their bond forfeited. It took him 3 weeks of work to repair the place.It's high time the Tribunal was cleaned out, the adjudicators have got a serious problem with their priorities and ability to understand facts.
Liz Williams
What is wrong with the tribunal!! To live next to a wreckless family who like to terrorise or think they can be the top dogs ( which they probably are ! ) of the street need to send them to an island with all the other troublesome aggressive so call people eg. gangs ! and let them fight argue to one other until there are none left.
Alex
Someone please remind me that we live in the 21st century and that we are on the right planet. What the hell is going on with this situation?
Ian (Auckland)
You know what the sad reality in modern NZ is that I expected the tribunal to do exactly what they did.As with the courts the criminal has more rights and benefits than the victim. In NZ it is better to be a criminal than a victim.For the most part politics is no better - politicians ( the criminal ) do for themselves as they please and vote as they please rather than for the voter ( victim ) who is deemed unintelligent.One day NZ will wake up when it is too late.
karen
Thanks for your feedback Jason. You are completely right and that is why 700 NZers leave these shores every week. For those who believe that being a HsgNZ tenant is only until we can get back on our feet, paying market rent, the high cost of living in NZ including some of the highest compliance costs, overheads and taxes ensures that I cannot save enough to quit this rental never mind save to buy my own home - or for that matter join the exodus out of this PC gone mad place.My business earns 65-70k/annum as a one-woman-band yet I get to live on the smell of an oil rag. My neighbour on the other hand, another HsgNZ tenant is living on a benefit, failing to meet her rent and child support payments, is getting all the handouts possible as an able-bodied free-loader, and is even getting her lawns mown at the taxpayer's expense. Sick.
Appalled (Ellerslie)
The Salt woman should get a life instead of continually producing more of her kind, welfare dependent, generation after generation.the lawyer should consider the human rights of other residents in the street. The salt family should be kicked out. The only draw-back would be that they move on, only to inflict their sub-normal behavior on yet more people. The prisons are full of these types. Get tough.
Canada
This is exactly what is wrong in NZ and why we as taxpayers and law abiding citizens left.
Sasha (Henderson)
I dont know all the facts but if I act like these people can I get a pay out too lmao! Oh no never mind I will just go back to my 45hr. a week job, live in my privately rented house and as a single mother of 4 (to the same father I must add till he passed)I work for what my family needs!
Huang (Waitakere)
The Tribunal's decision rubs more salt into the wounds of the hurt neighbours. While the decision favors Sharon Salt, the problem of unhappy neighbours remains. But then, given that much publicity, where else can Sharon and her younger children go? It would not be fair to her new neighbours, if evicted from Range View, and private landlords will not take her. Frankly, only an acceptance of some responsibility and a desire from Sharon to control the activities of her children would alleviate the fears of her neighbours. Her intention to sue for compensation will not help her case, but instead sustain or raise the ill-feelings in the neighbourhood.
Steve (Auckland)
The police helicopter flew over my house last night - and I felt persecuted.This family clearly has problems - created by themselves. Blaming an organization that is run by strict rules and wasting money on a case like this is ego-driven and irresponsible.
AKG (Auckland)
Incredible but totally predictable! Welcome to NZ where the criminal element has more rights then their victims and where anti-social and criminal behaviour gets rewarded! Predictable too that the Salt woman is going for compensation yet there is no compensation for the neighbours. The neighbours should band together and give the Salts a bit of their own medicine back in whatever way they can. The adjudicator should be fired - her decision-making skills are sadly lacking and she should be forced to live next door to the Salts for at least a year. If Sharon Salt and her family are unable to appreciate that they are privileged to be given housing assistance they should all be chucked out and for my portion of taxpayers money that is paying her rent it is my contention that she should be made to pay for her own housing with no help from Housing NZ. If she can afford to pay a lawyer she must have enough money to pay her way instead of sponging off the system and occupying a Housing NZ house! I am not surprised there is a shortage of Police in NZ - imagine having to deal with this kind of rubbish every day and still be made to look bad - shocking!
Darcy
I feel sorry for the decent citizens who have the misfortune to live in that street.
Nobody deserves to exist in a state of intimidation from lowlife, what has gone wrong with our 'politically correct country' ? Helen Clark is taking a huge risk of losing votes by kowtowing to the criminal element . Law and order please .
Steve
All I read from these views are racist (low quality people??), short sightedness and narrow minded views.Unless you all were privy to the facts and I'm talking about admissible evidence then really all these views are based on media produced speculation. Sure, there are people out there that do not live up to the acceptable terms of their tenancy, but to create hysteria because it provides viewers and media grabbing headlines. Imagine how many houses that could've been purchased with the millions that Fay and Richwhite scored and I'm not talking about the $20 million fine that they received recently. What attention did their practices attract from the media? One or two days of fizzled out news. Inequality does exist in this country between the rich and poor and it's normally the poor that get kicked when they're down and out.
Curious from Ellerslie
Just a suggestion.
How about moving the Salt family to a neighborhood where there are known trouble-makers and perhaps put the shoe on the other foot for a change.The resultant will either be a free for all or they'll fit right in...?
carol
I think its a bloody joke, people can do what ever they like and the system lets them, what a waste of police time an tax payers money, I say kick them out there laughing at the system, mark my words it wont be long before this family will be back in the news, stand up NZ put a stop to all this pc rubbish.
Steve
To me the real issue is the 22-year tenure this woman has had living in 'her' Housing NZ home. I thought state housing was for the shorter term not for life. For that reason alone she needs to move on so a needy family can move in. She's been there about 19 years to long as it is.
Regan
This lady needs to take responsibility for herself and her family; the reason why they reek havoc; is because they are lacking discipline! These kids need to be put into the real world into a flat and made accountable..ie: paying rent and earning a living as us taxpayers do in the real world.."making an honest living" would be a better anectdote! Secondly, nine children at home in one house...two are adults? These kids all need a good kick up the backside, and the family needs to be evicted as soon as possible.The message this complaint is sending is that crime pays and honest citizens lose!Enough, pussyfooting around get these losers out and get some responsible people in!
Christchurch
It seems incredible that after all the evidence from
the police and neighbours that this person is still
in residence. A landlord has the right to issue a 90
day notice to any undesirable tenant, why was this
not done in this case?
Jay (Waitakere)
What does it take to move bad neighbours?! I'm afraid there are just too many different people saying the same thing for the tenant to be believed. The tenant says it was only her 'bad' older children causing the difficulty - she doesn't have a good track record for raising good children, so my hopes aren't high that the neighbourhood will improve. The 'innocent' younger children have only had their older siblings for role models, and I can well believe that the problem will continue. What a terrible shame.
Michael
Only in New Zealand can a person whose family is out of control avoid the consequences and then seek compensation. This is the worst case of individual rights over the rights and needs of the larger community in recent history. The Prime Minister is right to be infuriated along with many law abiding citizens of NZ. An appeal has to be made and this decision has to be overturned for the sake of the rest of that neighbourhood who want to go about their daily lifes without threat or intimidation. HNZ has, I believe, made this decision as they may have nowhere to put this family as their reputation now precedes them.I hope common sense prevails and the right decision is made for all concerned. A decision like this makes you wonder why any one in this country bothers to obey the law, maybe if we didn't we could all claim police harassment and seek compensation. Sure beats working.
Jeanette
I have had an experience with neighbours from hell and I truly feel sorry for the people that live in this street. There is nothing worse than feeling unsafe in your own home. Getting to the point where you dread going home and when your there wondering what is going to happen next, or if tonight is the nite that someone gets really badly hurt or dies. Home is suppose to be a place that you can relax in, feel at ease and happy. As for the police harassment...do not get me started. What exactly have they been doing to their own neighbours...nothing like a dose of your own medicine. And if they were law-abiding citizens then the police would have no reason to go there. Whyy is it in New Zealand that our normal law abiding citizens have less rights than those who choose to be on the wrong side of the law? Sometimes I think we are tree huggers gone mad.The people doing the right thing deserve a break sometimes to and evicting Sharon Salt would of been that.
Penguin
The tribunal should have evicted the Salt family, as this has been done in other areas for far less a crime. People need to feel safe in their living areas without fearing for their property and lives.
Andy
If they party, party harder.If they make a mess, make one bigger.Actually, dont bother, just lynch them.
Stevie
We voted in the government of no action, we get what we deserve.
Nick
A bit of vigilante justice will sort them out, it's time to send in the mob!
Natasha (Auckland)
This situation once again highlights the fact that victims rights do not stand up in the New Zealand judicial system. Here we have a situation where quite clearly the occupants of this state house have abused their position to be looked after by the state, and we as the taxpayer are forced to foot the bill to not only pay for their housing, the police calls out to their residence, Housing New Zealand's time and effort dealing with this case, and then the court costs for the Salt's to defend their position. Why is it that we as good law abiding New Zealanders have to pay for these peoples antisocial behaviour? It is an absolute joke that Mrs Salt feels she is entitled to compensation as of the result of this situation. What has happened to victim compensation? The right her neighbours have to live in a safe environment, and not feel like they are prisoners in their own homes. Mrs Salt is able to have representation but her victims do not. I think it is about time we, as a nation, stand up for the people who are really being abused in this situation.
Leslie
She has to go - why should the other neighbours be subjected to urban terrorism by this women and her anti-social family. Kick em out!
Rosina
Having a state house is a privilege. The correlation between welfare dependency, and occupancy by those whose birth origins are not New Zealand is getting alarmingly high.Sharon Salts case was of blatant disregard of HC rules, fear tactics and common courtesy to neighbours by her sons who have now gone. However, filling our taxpayer funded homes with immigrants based on need over bona fide New Zealanders who have worked and paid taxes, been mostly careful but on occasion might need a cheap rental home to bide them over a tough spot annoys me more than this case. Sharon Salt deserves one more chance.
Paul
The Tenancy Tribunal is biased in favour of the tenant. This Labour government and PM should fix some problems like that and the 18000 mums and dads losing money on Bridgecorp instead of smacking laws, gay marriages, DVD importing prohibition and all the other rubbish. $34 million spent on a yacht race could have been a tax cut for some of us. Or $34 million dollars worth of energy saving light bulbs free to tax payers if you want to be a green supporter. I don't, but it would have been a hell of a lot better use of the money and would benefit kiwis first.
Angry tax payer
What does this woman mean when she says she will try and recoup the expenses trying to fight the case? It was not her money in the first place!She is a bludger! If she has enough money to pay for a lawyer then she does not qualify to have a State House. If Mrs Salt went to work, earnt honest money and stopped having children she would not have ended up in this situation and her children may have turned out to be respectable human beings. My deepest sympathies to the neighbours who are now in for a rough ride. I know first hand how Tenancy Services Adjudicators work.....one sided with my tenant after she burnt down our garage and refused to pay rent because she had no where to park her car. The tenant got away with owing us $4000 in unpaid rent. Wake up Tenancy Services!
Al
What a pathetically handled case.Kid gloves on,joke.Auckland Tenancy Tribunal heads should be rolled into a big barrel of "Salt"
Nick
The tribunal should be named and shamed. Who appoints these people anyway? If they are appointed by Pollies, we only get as good as the Pollies we elect.
Amazed
So, Mrs Salt fails to show up at previous hearings and then when she sees that she is on really thin ice does show up and employs a lawyer? I feel very sorry for the neighbours and hope that the judge laughs the compensation claim out of court. What a waster of time and government resources. I thought that parents were responsible for their children's behaviour ... but maybe I'm old fashioned.
Cam (Auckland)
Well isn't that just peachy. Another example of terrorists (gangs / this family etc) being allowed to rule the roost and destroy the lives and moments of good honest Kiwis (this family are not Kiwis - their behaviour is not something true "Kiwis" would recognise as anything other than despicable, evil - stand over behaviour that Mother needs to grow up and join Society - it all starts with her). So these sub-humans can impose their wills on the majority and act like big men, and stand over people who have saved for years to afford their own homes etc - people who have their own fears/ cares and concerns in the world without needing to live next to the House of Horrors - and this Tribunal can turn around without a thought and say "No nothing to see here - everything normal - you can stay" - Some places in the world that don't have quite the same approach to tolerance like we do, would have these scum bags (probably the Tribunal to) stoned to death. What's acceptable about bullying, threatening behaviour that even the Police have condemned? Why is the tribunal blind to this heinous situation? If these are the sorts of values that the Tribunal look for in people to house in 2007 then God help us all. It amazes me that we have come so far as a "civilised" race - 2000 odd years of slowly trying to get to a place where everyone has food to eat, a pillow for the head and some happiness in the Heart - then you hear of something like this, and realise, alot of People are still stuck on the First Day Lesson of "Respect others" and "Be Nice to other People" they are not the hardest concepts in the world to master, they are after all why we are still here after 2000 years ! I think as a city, Auckland should march to the address of the problems and evict them ourselves ! Be more responsible than the Tenancy Tribunals actions!
Fred(Auckland)
This Government tells all the voters not to pay electricity, not to smack your child and do what you like in a state home cause this labour government wants your (and maybe your childrens)vote!
Jason
Karen, you answered your own question, you are a white female who works hard and has no kids. Now, if you were not working, on the dole with heaps of nit infested scallywags who litter, rap and tag, obese and of a minority race you'd be able to give us a wide nicotine stained smile as you'd be sitting pretty and you'd soon be off to gamble all your kids lunch money at the pokies.
Rod
How can we be asked to comment one way or the other. The vast majority of us were not at the hearing and only have the media reports to base our judgments. We get the society and the community that we are prepared to put up with. I encourage anyone to make a stand against non-acceptable behaviour.
Mary
The Tenancy Tribunal has made a huge mistake in regards to this issue. Because some of the neighbours affected by the unruly and threatening behaviour of the Salt family have given evidence against the Salts, they now face further threats, intimidation and possible retribution from these disgusting, social misfits! Surely the behaviour of this family is enough for Housing Corp NZ to have them evicted, because there seemed to be enough evidence to support the statements of both neighbours and the police. Because of its negative decision in this matter, is the Tenancy Tribunal going to take responsibility now for any resulting injuries or worse, inflicted by the Salt family towards members of their neighbourhood who stood up at the Tribunal hearing in an effort to have this family evicted? Let's hope it doesn't come to this, but given the demeanour of the Salts, the Tenancy Tribunal adjudicator could have blood on her hands! Perhaps the outcome of this case will be turned around by an appeal by Housing Corp NZ. In the name of public safety and well being, I for one certainly hope so.
Maria (Auckland)
This is yet another reason why we need to