KEY POINTS:
The Ombudsman report that followed the case of Liam Ashley has been released with dozens of recommendations.
Ashley was being transported by a Chubb van to jail when he was beaten to death by another prisoner.
Here is the latest selection of Your Views:
Nigel Over the years I've been charged with various minor crimes, and beaten each one in court (rightly so I might add). In one instance I was charged with Obstruction of Justice over a minor paper matter, and disagreement with a local policeman (thug). Ultimately that case didn't make it to a defended hearing before being dropped by the police prosecutor (~common sense~ I was in the right all along!). My point being that during that period of processing I was arrested on a week day morning in my home (the police just walked in through an unlocked door), took me out of my home and in a police car to the Takapuna Police Station charged me, and held me and then sent to the court to be released on bail condition in a van of the exact same type and model that Liam was killed in. My point is that yes a significant number of the occupants of those vans may have committed a crime. However in many case that has yet to be proven, and since there is duplicitous uses for these vehicles why not have the highest standard of care available to all men and woman that should find themselves in them. In my case I found the vans to be dirty, well "tagged" and stuffy. On a hot day they would be horrible. It's time well time Chubb's contract and the services they provide were given an overhaul. Perhaps a new provider?, or perhaps a better quality of service. Either way &. I stood beside a prison van at the back of the Auckland District court this morning, right next to my smoking spot at work, and listened to the prisoners inside kicking the walls and screaming to get out (no Chubb personnel insight btw) &. Its time for serious changes
Susan O'Neill
What happened to Liam Ashley was tragic, should never of happened, but lets not go overboard here, waist restraints should be sufficient for restraining prisoners, as regards to upgrading the vans, why - these people are not there because they are taking a guided tour, they are prisoners and quite frankly the law abiding public of New Zealand is sick to death of lawbreakers having all mod cons laid on, prison is a punishment or should be and although the vans are a big grim no one is suggesting that they are in the vans for very long anyway. Both Chubb and Corrections should be held accountable for Liam Ashley's death but get a grip or will it be lets have a luxury coach laid on the prisoners while they are ferried around the countryside on a coach tour where they can decide which corrections hotel they are going to stay in.
Te'Nika from Aotearoa
Somebody said that they (inmates) should be treated as a criminals (i.e. 2nd hand humans) so who cares how they are transported around. However, not to forget is the fact that significant amount of them are people on remand, hence still not proven guilty. And the basic human right in the civilised country is that "everyone is innocent until proven guilty". Therefore, do not judge them outside of the scope of the justice system.
Tony Clark
Right from the get go the whole system should be split in to catagories ie. remand should be split to "at risk" "Hardend or career" criminals and the low end ie. "First timer" That way a lot of the old school mentality will be lost, Standovers" and bullies are in their own arena and the first timers can concentrate on their rehabilitation/remorse or just get on with there lag.At present (In Pap) the screws are let the old jungle rules apply in remand especially this means if there is at the time a predominance of Mob then they run around taking and bulling as they wish this is the same when its the skinheads turn and so on.
Arron
I am so glad the ombudsman opened our eyes to the inhumane conditions our poor criminals are having to suffer during transportation. Maybe we should hire a fleet of limos instead. Put no more than a single prisoner in each limo, provide some chilled champagne and maybe a cheese platter to provide sustenance for their journey. Maybe even spring for a prostitute or two to entertain them during the journey and pass the time quicker. That would make way more sense than actually treating them like criminals and putting them in medieval shackles. No lets give them luxury, that is the only way we can be consistent with the Clark/Bradford kid gloves, silent diplomacy on crime, no responsibility, lowest common denominator society that we have voted in for the past decade.You get what you ask for NZ.
Rob
It is pretty obvious in NZ nowadays that if you work for a major company (Mercury) or the justice or corrections department and you are involved with the death of a human being, you can pretty much guaranteed lots of publicity with no conviction, so they can walk out the courthouse door and carry on as if nothing happened.Is this how we want our society to be?Its not hard to see why the younger generation have no respect for law officers & the law if it were one of them(young) they would have been jailed by now.Has any one been jailed for these 2 incidents yet?
JR (Wellington)
The Public Service attitude mirrors that of the Clark Government. Nothing is ever their fault. This sorry episode is as usual the fault of someone else. The recent Power death is the same. No ones fault. Not the family, the SOE or the many State Funded agencies set up to provide for the so called caring nanny State. Seems it's guaranteed to always be the fault of someone who can't be identified. Well perhaps there is an element of truth in this. The low unemployment rates, strong economy, etc are also not this Labour Governments fault. Lets be honest the Aussies also have record low unemployment and a much stronger economy - although this could be Helens fault as many of our brightest have moved there in the past 7 years ! But no perhaps she's right - MP's have little or no real influence over the real state of the nation. So why then do we have so many MPs and associated public servants ?
Le Fox
Liam was an unfortunate tragic case, as don't forget his parents could have taken him home, but wanted to scare him into going straight.As far as transport is concerned, the sooner they have chauffer driven limos the better.....
People, please do not loose sight of some of the people who are being transported.Yes, there should be improvements, but be realistic.
Ian
We keep reading and hearing the word "inhumane" relating to the conditions that prisoners are treated and transported throughout the country. For goodness sake these poeple are criminals, have committed various crimes in our society, they are not angels and cannot be expected to be treated as such. Do we expect our Corrections Dept to treat them like angels, with kid-gloves, is that how the National Party would like them treated I ask? I don't think that would go down too well in the polls for the Nats, would it? Get real folks this is yet another media and opposition beat-up. Sure some areas need to be improved, like restraints in the vans, but we are dealing with criminals and the Corrections Dept here, not a kindergarden and preschool children!
PaulS
Richard
Let me guess, the guy who does this report also will do the Mercury investigation and get even more consulting fees, but no-one is to blame there either. At what point does a government employee actually get the sack, if ever?
Himanshu (Mt. Roskill)
Firstly, it was very sad and unfortunate. The report has rightly condemned the whole thing in the light of the rules, regulations and procedures.I have a feeling that off late, we are becoming a country of excuses and are now learning our lessons only after something this tragic happens. It is either a result of too much over-confident approach (about what, I don't know) or a boorish or rather cocky approach to things.Three events including tragic death of young Mr Ashley in prison van, a guy throwing a big stone on a motorway, killing the driver, who was again a young man full of dreams and only 3 months' sentence to a driver, who was in the wrong and caused two deaths (if I am not mistaken) on a motorway of totally innocent people.If we do not question ourselves, our systems and our attitudes, it is not going to be very far when instead of we being part of OECD countries, will be relegated to a sort of attitude generally third world countries and systems have towards human life.
Tim Spooner
Solutions can easily be found. Transport Damien O'Connor in the back of one the vans on a routine 50km Court/Prison trip with a load of other prisoners (none of them specially selected for this special trip). I guarantee he will have found every safety feature possible within 5 minutes.
john l
Could you confirm we are talking about convicted criminals here not the victims of crime?
Phil
How shameful. This cruel and neglectful state of affairs has been brought about with the complicity of all NZers, or at least the 90+ per cent who voted in favour of increased custodial sentences in a referendum but who were too mean to want to spend any money on that program.From reading the report it is apparent that every time any sort of attempt has been made to address the dangers posed to prisoners, nothing happens - ostensibly because of 'higher priorities'- but really because governments of all stripes worry political embarrassment is the only reward for being 'caught' taking care of convicts.It is this very attitude which breeds the institutionalised resentment and recidivism amongst convicts and brutalises them to the point where re-intergration into mainstream society is impossible.
Peter k
Safety what a joke.I would hate to be in the back of those transport vans with a waist restraints and have it crash and maybe catch fire. How about getting a better company to do the job, with people trained to stop this before it happens. Not much action being taken except for waist restraints. How long do you need to get this right?
Alan Wilkinson Corrections, Justice and Courts departments have been a mismanaged disaster area for many years.They need a critical external review by a competent business brain - not another inside band-aid job.Probably this Ombudsman's review is fine as far as it goes - that is just not nearly far enough to make any long-term difference to all the problems.
