Two views on the hikoi

Shane Jones is a moderate Maori leader. Lloyd Jones is a Pakeha writer. After the foreshore and seabed hikoi, Maori Affairs reporter JON STOKES talked to the Joneses to get their views on the state of race relations.

SHANE JONES: Powerful statement

I don't think the hikoi should be seen as marking a negative turning point.

I think all were taken aback by its power and size.

Parliament was festooned with flags of all description; there was theatre, pageantry, passion.

A whole lot of incredible things about Maori identity were on show for just a few hours.

The march encompassed the band from the Ratana Church, the poi group from Parihaka, the haka teams from many tribes, a host of conservative people, people from every tribe and rangitahi (young people).

It was a very powerful statement about Maori pride.

The tide has begun to turn in a societal sense against the agenda of Maori rights.

I think any politician wanting to try to put that genie back in the bottle was given a first-hand sight of what they have in front of them.

It would be churlish not to acknowledge that Hone Harawira is a great motivator of people, and he played a pivotal role in shepherding the hikoi from the tail of the fish to the head of the fish.

I think Pakeha in New Zealand have little to fear as long as we remain on the trajectory of dealing with our historical grievances and ensuring there is a place of pride for all time for Maori culture, Maori identity and Maori development.


There was little to suggest something malevolent was taking place. It was more a statement of Maori renaissance and Maori pride, Maori power, and that power comes from that identity.

Once all these issues are put into the political mishmash, you have to practise the art of the possible.

Tariana's focus on a separate Maori party is an understandable response. It is a platform on which to drive a strategy without being compromised by belonging to a political group that has to serve other masters as well.

And for those reasons it runs the risk of condemning Maori to be bit players in the larger political game.

To be sustainable, a Maori party has to have broad appeal.

Deal-making of a political nature - be it economic, social or constitutional change - takes place at the centre.

We run the risk of minimising Maori influence if we disappear to the edges of the political spectrum.

The Greens and Act have taken some exceedingly staunch positions, but how often are their philosophies ever going to be implemented?

I'm of the view that they may be contributing, but in a democracy you need to command support and enjoy the confidence of people who by and large mix and mingle in the centre.

A Maori party's success will depend on its objectives.

If Tariana's kaupapa is to control the balance of power in Parliament, it's going to need a philosophy that's deeper, more relevant and more strategic than the rhetoric of tribal sovereignty.

For the advancement of Maori, the answer doesn't lie in excluding ourselves from the rest of society.

The answer lies in having the internal strength and self-belief that we can work with anyone at anytime without compromising who we are and where we are going.

I have no fear about race relations in New Zealand. I think the hikoi was an opportunity for people to mobilise and to demonstrate how strongly they feel about the agenda of Maori rights.

The place of Maori in New Zealand society? It all depends how things go in the next few years.

If the Government changes, Don Brash might be able to hood-wink the Pakeha into abandoning their nuclear-free policy, but he won't trick the Maori into nuking the treaty, or extinguishing their seats.

The protest organisers sensed a mood change in those who govern in this country. A climate is developing for repressing Maori. The march was to send a message to the rest of society that Maori renaissance cannot and will not be thwarted, that Maori rights have traction and cannot be thwarted.

Maori rights and integrating more Maori into the economy are positive things.

LLOYD JONES: Pride and good vibes

We followed it all through town, spent three hours in Parliament watching it. Great theatre.

The hikoi was a good thing for race relations. There was incredible good will. Smiling faces, amazingly well organised. The theatre of it is not to be under-estimated. From the old Ratana band, and their funny old purple blazers, playing those funny old tunes to kapa haka groups, Pita Sharples leading his group.

Look at the pageantry, with an awful lot of flags. It was an amazing event, and I think much larger than people were expecting.

It was almost an all-Maori event. There weren't many Pakeha involved.

There was good vibe about the whole thing, and it threw up a lot of pride.

Parliament's grounds were turned into a marae.

It's a complex issue, and Maori have a point, but I have a problem with the extravagance of the language - land confiscation and crap banners that the Harawira family unthinkingly trot out at a moment's notice. Things like comparing Helen Clark to Mugabe.

I had a lot of sympathy for Helen Clark. She must be feeling terribly betrayed.

You can imagine all the hand holding that she would have done for Tariana Turia, all the times she would have bent over backwards to accommodate, only to be shafted.

I thought her comments about Shrek were perfectly apt. I'd rather spend my life with Shrek than have anything to do with the Ken Mairs of this world.

The argument when you see it written down has a certain logic to it. But it gets inflamed by those type of people.

It provides for a process, it secures the coastline in perpetuity, it guarantees access, and it gives recourse to the various iwi, to apply for access based on customary usage.

On the other hand, their argument is not to be dismissed.

I think the march was motivated by the heart rather than the head. Many people were on the march to support people who felt more strongly about it than they did.

The trouble is the extravagance of the language. It pisses me off.

They were placing the Government's supply in jeopardy, and they could have perhaps brought an early election if Mahuta had decided she was leaving the Labour party.

Suddenly you could possibly have had National back in power, where Don Brash has said he will do away with the Maori seats.

The hikoi was a much more positive protest, there was a hell of a good spirit.

A very good spirit.

Race relations are fantastic in this country. People always dwell on the negatives between Maori and Pakeha, but most Maori have a bit of Pakeha in them and many Pakeha have a bit of Maori in them.

If you want to go to places where race relations are bad, go to the inner parts of American cities.

All the people I know were impressed by the hikoi, the scale, the colour, the vibrancy.

There was no anger, except for that Iti guy. Someone described him as a freelancer.

The march had an air of celebration about it as much as demonstration. There were a hell of a lot of people.

At first I was a little bit dismissive of the legislation. I thought Maori were over-reacting. But on reflection they have a point. Maybe it's about semantics, maybe it's about process, or tone, maybe it's a whole complexity of things.

The whole business of Tariana Turia, and what she would do, made the legislation a bigger issue. Made me sit up and take notice and look at the issue more carefully.

I'm sceptical about a Maori political party. Why should all Maori gather under a banner simply on the basis they are Maori? It's patronising. It's like saying all Pakeha would find common agreement under a Pakeha party.

Just because they are Maori doesn't mean they think alike. I hope it fails.

I would rather see Maori taking part in the structure and the parties that exist, and the argument winning the day rather than some racially driven sort of thing - an arm wrestle along racial lines.