David Cameron pointed out to me when we had dinner at his place [last month] that there'd been the four us who'd gone for a drink after the G20 [Cameron, Key, Stephen Harper and Tony Abbott] and now there's only two of us left. So tread carefully, he said.
Q. Which leader would you liked to have spent more time with on this trip?
A. That's really good question. Maybe a bit more time with President Park of Korea. I like her a lot and we chatted a bit about issues but in hindsight I spent a lot of time with a lot of different leaders, Shinzo Abe, a lot with Obama and a huge amount with Turnbull. Probably of the ones I know and liked and just would liked to have caught up a bit more, it would have been her.
Q. Who have you invited to New Zealand?
A. Pretty much most of them but realistically who might come? I think at some point Justin Trudeau will come but it is not going to be in the short term because he has got so many things on his plate. I hold out hope Obama will come but it's always a long shot. He is so forward-leaning in wanting to come and the White House is so hesitant. Not for bad reasons but because his dance card is so busy.
Q. What did you make of the Filipino people and why do you think the country hasn't done better?
A. They are really lovely people and they are incredibly polite so they are very, very nice people and I feel quite tall there. I'm the Sam Whitelock of the Philippines. I think they are doing a lot better but they are starting from a very, very low base. They are growing at about 6 per cent. And over the years there have been issues around coups so if they can maintain stability, that will be important.
Q. Have you visited Malaysia much before, maybe when you lived in Singapore?
A. Yes. The nearest port from Singapore is Johor Bahru and we used to go there quite a bit because it was almost a Sunday drive. You can drive over and it's quite cool. The second thing is I've been to a few of the Malaysian resorts. I've been to Langkawi. There a really beautiful Four Seasons at Langkawi, one of the islands, and I've been to KL a bit for business so I kind of feel like I know it pretty well.
Q. What do you think of Malaysia?
A. I like it. On the basis I am never going to be an ambassador so I am not pitching for a job but if they were sending me somewhere, I think as High Commissioner to Malaysia, there'd be a lot worse places to go than Malaysia. The food is great; it's an interesting place; and I like the climate.
Q. Did you get in any golf on this trip?
A. Yes I just played at Royal Selangor. It's a really famous course [built in 1893] and all the embassy and High Commission residences are on it. I played with the club captain and the president and so we just after the standup at 7.45 am. We played nine holes. It was a beautiful course.
Q. Who won the golf?
Funnily enough I did. I played really, really well today. I don't know why. I must have been relaxed.
Q. Obama and Turnbull both greatly admire you and it is pretty clear Chinese president Xi Jinping is a fan too. Is that just personally flattering or good for NZ in any way?
Hopefully both. In the end there is no point having stores of political capital unless they can be used for the benefit of the country. That's where the benefit is. Xi Jinping, I think, but I wouldn't to overstate things, but I reckon he genuinely does like me. In our bilateral, he was really engaging, really smiley, didn't use his notes. That is highly unusual for a Chinese leader. He just talked about the issues, how he saw things going.
Obama, I think in a lot of ways we are just easy. A) I've been around the whole time he has been around. We speak English. In our system he'd probably be almost right of me. The Democrats are, on our basis, very similar politically to where [National] are. He'd be stronger on climate change, for instance, and maybe the odd issue but generally speaking, pretty right wing, relative to our system. It's just that the Republicans are very far right. I just think I've been around a long time. I always remember after the G20 [in Brisbane where New Zealand was a guest] I had some intervention [verbal contribution to the issue under discussion] and Cameron texted me and said 'in all the G20s I've been to, that has been the best intervention I've heard.' And Obama came up to me with Cameron afterwards and he said: 'Ah, it's a shame you're not bigger. You're fun to have around.' Doesn't mean they are going to invite me back when they host the G20 but it was kind of flattering. But they are good guys.
Q. What is the secret to your success at international diplomacy?
A. Have your own style. The one thing that they like is I don't read out the MFAT notes. I obviously use them to inform the kind of point I'm making and we have a serious point. In trade we have been really useful to the United States because we have been very forward-leaning on a high quality TPP and I think Obama genuinely thought that greatly assisted the process. I think that's why he called me the 'Father of TPP.' After he did his initial intervention [at the TPP leaders' meeting in Apec] he said 'I'm going to pass to the Father of TPP' and got me to do the next intervention. I think it is just that I have been there the longest.
Q. Are you and Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev still friends or has Ukraine changed that?
A. No, I think we still have a really good relationship. We felt very strongly about what they have done in Ukraine but he is quite engaging and I find him honest and straight forward in what he says. If I asked him about Ukraine, and I didn't on this particular case, he would absolutely give their view. We would disagree with their view but he would give their view. But there's a sort of warmth about him that you dont get with Putin. I don't have a relationship at all with Putin. And Medvedev speaks English to me generally. He has the interpreter and will generally have to translate but not very much.
Q. You've got another big trip to go this year [Malta for the Commonwealth Summit, Paris for COP21and Berlin]. Are you exhausted at the thought of it?
A. No. I don't hanker to travel despite what people might think. it comes with the job. It is always quite fascinating and interesting and I try not to think about it too much. I just get on with it and do it. But it's always fascinating. I've never been to Malta before. I'm really looking forward to seeing [German Chancellor] Angela Merkel. Funnily enough I think Paris will be really interesting. I was a reasonably reluctant participant in Copenhagen but I really quite looking forward to going to COP21. It's going to make a really fast finish to the year.
Q. Are you meeting Merkel at COP21?
A. No, we are going to Berlin afterwards. She invited us back. She had such a great time in New Zealand. She loved New Zealand [when she visited before the Brisbane G20]. She came up to me at the G20 and said she had such a great time and she really loved all the nature stuff. She said so much of her time is spent in meetings inside. The Germans love nature anyway, I reckon as a general characterisation. Her staff said to me she got more coverage in Germany from releasing a kiwi [on Motutapu Is] than what she did at the G20.
You'll have had eight trips this year and seven of them crammed into the second half of the year.
A. Yes but there is just no way I would have the sort of relationship with Obama of Xi Jinping or a whole host of leaders...without New Zealand being party to Apec and the East Asia Summit and things like the Commonwealth Heads of Government. Realistically, how often would I get to the White House if that wasn't the case? It would be once a term, which has been the trend so far.
Even that is quite high relative to some other Prime Ministers...I would have the basis of a 35-minute relationship once every three years. There is no way Obama would have got to point where he felt comfortable enough to invite me to play golf and do all the other things he has done under that scenario. The combination of TPP and the just the general familiarity of these things has built up great relationships.
No New Zealand Prime Minister will travel less going into the future. They will all come to these events. They should come to these events. They have a responsibility to the country to come to these events. But it will be a big advantage for future Prime Ministers in terms of developing relationships.
Q. Do you feel like a junior world leader?
A. JWL. It's the joke term at work. People say "world leader" and I say, well we're at the bottom of the earth, so JWL - I came up with the term.
