PM Christopher Luxon speaks to the media from Parliament before he takes off for Peru.
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has delivered his strongest pushback to date against his coalition partner David Seymour, saying National is focused on the “hard issues” concerning New Zealanders, which the “simplistic” Treaty Principles Bill isn’t helping with.
His comments come just hours before the legislation faces its first vote in the House. Luxon’s National Party is expected to support it at first reading, in line with its coalition agreement, but won’t support it past the select committee stage.
It’s understood Speaker Gerry Brownlee has told political parties that he intends to rule prior to the first reading that if there is any disruption at all – such as shouting – from members of the public, he will clear the entire public gallery out.
The Prime Minister won’t be in the House for the first reading – he’s flying to Peru for the annual Apec forum – but held a press conference on Thursday morning, where he addressed questions about his party’s position on the Treaty Principles Bill.
Asked what he made of suggestions from Seymour that there was a sizeable portion of the country that quietly backed it, Luxon said he had seen such comments.
“I’d just say, the hard issues are in fact the hard things Kiwis are dealing with right now. What they are dealing with is the cost of living, what they are dealing with is the threat of losing their jobs, what they are dealing with is rising crime, what they have been dealing with is an education system that is failing their kids,” Luxon said.
“That is what the National Party is focused on. We are focused on dealing with the hard issues. Frankly, a Treaty Principles Bill that is simplistic, that hopes to rewrite a debate and discussion over 184 years through the stroke of a pen, is not the way forward.”
He said it wasn’t helping the Government “get New Zealand back on track” and address issues like the economy, law and order, and public services.
“That is what the hard stuff is for New Zealanders. Go out here and talk to New Zealanders getting through a week. It is a tough time. It is getting better, our plan is starting to work. But that is the hard work the National Party is engaged on.”
Luxon said the three parties in the coalition – National, Act and New Zealand First – agree on “90% of our approach”, but there were compromises. He said this was a reality of the MMP political environment.
“There is no screaming, shouting, ranting, raving, high tension behind the scenes. It is just acknowledging we have got a difference.”
The Prime Minister explained his preference would be to deal with issues relating to the Treaty “case by case”.
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon speaks to media ahead of the Treaty Principles Bill's first reading. Photo / Mark Mitchell
Seymour, the architect of the legislation, denies the bill is divisive and doesn’t believe those protesting it have actually read it. He said it doesn’t do anything controversial, but instead affirms New Zealanders’ equal rights.
It seeks to define the principles of the Treaty so their meaning in legislation can be clearly interpreted. Currently, principles mentioned across legislation are not defined by Parliament but have instead been mostly derived from court rulings and Government statements.
Seymour believes the bill would provide certainty and promote a national conversation about the principles’ place in the country’s constitutional arrangements.
The principles in the draft legislation – officially the “Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill” – include that the Government has the power to govern in the interests of everyone and everyone is equal before the law.
The second principle has gone through some wording changes. The legislation says the Crown recognises, and will respect and protect, the rights that hapū and iwi Māori had under the Treaty of Waitangi and Te Tiriti at the time they signed it.
However, if those rights differ “from the rights from everyone”, that principle will only apply “if those rights are agreed in the settlement of a historical Treaty claim under the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975”.
The bill says it doesn’t amend the text of the actual Treaty and can’t be used to interpret Treaty settlement legislation.
Seymour on Wednesday said critics of his legislation should read it.
“Once you see it, ask yourself what’s wrong with the Government having the right to govern, the Government having an obligation to uphold all people’s rights and all people’s rights being equal before the law?”
He said it doesn’t “take away” the Māori language or culture or “undermine Treaty settlements”, as he said some had claimed.
Act leader David Seymour. Photo / Ben Dickens
Seymour believes, over time, National may come around to the legislation.
“I think that they are perhaps less keen on taking on a tough issue. That has always been true. Act is a party that will take on hard issues and often, like Three Strikes, like charter schools, give it a few years and the National Party says, ‘best thing we ever thought of’.
“We are quite happy because we know there is no limit to what you can achieve if you don’t care who takes the credit.”
Late on Wednesday, a collective of King’s Counsels outlined their concerns about the bill, including that the proposed principles didn’t adequately reflect the articles of the Treaty and that it would cause significant legal confusion and uncertainty.
They noted that the existing principles have been developed by the courts over the past 50 years and now represented settled law.
The lawyers also said that while a select committee process allowed for public engagement, there should have been specific engagement with Māori prior.
“In addition to the obvious risk of a poor legislative outcome, this has created mistrust and calls into question whether the stated objective of an open, informed public debate is genuine.”
Seymour said on Thursday that he understood “why they don’t like” the bill.
“Eeryone gets a say, even if you’re not a KC,” he said.
“The debate over the Treaty has until this point been dominated by a small number of judges, senior public servants, academics, and politicians. The select committee process will finally democratise that debate.
“The courts and the Waitangi Tribunal have been able to develop principles that have been used to justify actions that are contrary to the principle of equal rights. Those actions include co-governance in the delivery of public services and ethnic quotas in public institutions.
“The Treaty Principles Bill provides an opportunity for New Zealanders – rather than the courts and the Waitangi Tribunal – to have a say on what the Treaty means. Did the Treaty give different rights to different groups, or does every citizen have equal rights? I believe all New Zealanders deserve to have a say on that question.”
The Waitangi Tribunal last week said the bill would be “the worst, most comprehensive breach of the Treaty/Te Tiriti in modern times”. It also argued there had been a lack of consultation with Māori.
“At present, the progressing of the bill is having serious impacts on the relationship,” the tribunal said. “But the bill, if enacted, would kill that relationship.”
Parliament is preparing for protests both inside and out as the bill gets its first reading this afternoon.
The Speaker is expected to warn members of the public that if there are any attempts to disrupt proceedings, he will clear the public galleries.
Brownlee would not comment on his plans for the debate, saying only that he intended to speak to the House at the start of the debate on the bill.
“I will be talking to the House at the start of the bill, but I’m not making any comments before that.”
Staff at Parliament were emailed this morning and advised protests were expected today and police would be on hand to help parliamentary security if there were any issues. Increased security measures will also be in place at Parliament next week – and public tours will be cancelled on Monday and Tuesday.
Thousands have been marching towards Wellington in opposition to the Treaty Principles Bill over recent days. The Hīkoi mō te Tiriti (march for the Treaty) moved through Auckland on Wednesday and is expected in the capital by next Tuesday.
The parliamentary staff email said the hīkoi was expected to be peaceful and organisers had been working with the Speaker’s office to ensure it did not breach the rules for protests on Parliament grounds.
Politicians from Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori joined those protesting on Wednesday, including Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, who said he was proud of the unity on display in the hīkoi and expected the numbers to grow before it hit Wellington next week.
“By the time we get to Wellington, this would have quadrupled in size and in mass, because people are really concerned about how the country has been divided through legislation like the Treaty Principles Bill,” he said.
A national hīkoi protesting the bill is making its way south to Wellington, hitting the streets of Hamilton today. Photo / Mike Scott
Labour leader Chris Hipkins said the hīkoi showed people unified in not wanting “divisive politics”. He said it wasn’t too late for the Prime Minister to pull his support.
“The National Party can honour the commitment that it made to New Zealanders before the election and vote against this bill.
“They never should have agreed to it in the coalition agreement. They said before the election that they wouldn’t support it. I think they’ve betrayed voters’ trust in signing up to it as part of the coalition agreement.”
Seymour faced a barracking during Question Time as he spoke about the bill on Wednesday.
While reading out some feedback he had received about it, which was also critical of Te Pāti Māori, Te Pāti Māori co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer said Seymour was “desperate” and “clutching at straws”.
A large chunk of Question Time involved questions about the bill, from an assortment of different angles, leading Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith to later remark: “Clearly, the other side have woken up this morning and decided to have every question on this particular area today in the House, and so they’re straining to draw different bills into different ministerial responsibilities.”
Jamie Ensor is a political reporter in the NZ Herald press gallery team based at Parliament. He was previously a TV reporter and digital producer in the Newshub press gallery office.
