Shane Jones will focus his rhetoric on policy rather than personality after the Attorney-General “sought to school me” on the principles of mutual respect between ministers and the judiciary.
In an interview with the Herald, the senior minister said Attorney-General Judith Collins had sent him a “clear message” that comments about judges “doesn’t reflect well on Cabinet’s broader collective responsibilities” and she “wants to see an improvement”.
“I’m a Crown minister, and Crown ministers, as the Attorney-General has sought to school me, are bound by the kaupapa of comity,” said Jones, a New Zealand First MP.
In the aftermath of that latter comment last week, Collins told media she would speak with Jones about comity – not for the first time. She wrote to ministers earlier this year about respecting the judiciary and also subsequently spoke with Jones.
Jones told the Herald on Monday that he had had communications with Collins.
“I’ll cut to the chase. The principle of comity really requires someone like me to put a stone on my tongue,” he said.
“There is scope for making observations about policy dimensions which may come out of judicial decisions, but to make remarks about the personality of a judge or the judge’s history, which was reported from a meeting, is treacherous territory for a minister to be on.”
The Cabinet manual states ministers “should not express any views that are likely to be publicised if they could be regarded as reflecting adversely on the impartiality, personal views, or ability of any judge”.
Jones referred to High Court Justice Cheryl Gwyn as a “communist” in a May meeting, of which notes have since been released via the Waitangi Tribunal.
The meeting was between ministers and seafood representatives about Government plans to make it more difficult for Māori to gain customary marine titles to foreshore and seabed. It comes after a Court of Appeal decision lowered the threshold.
The minister has previously defended the remark as a “matter of fact”, while the Prime Minister said it was “descriptive, not critical”. Gwyn, who has granted titles, was previously a member of the Socialist Action League.
Jones couldn’t “walk back” that “communist” comment, he said, but the Attorney-General had reminded him that “everything that is recorded, said by a minister in formal meetings is a reflection on Cabinet and she wants to see an improvement”.
Asked if that meant he wouldn’t make such a remark in the future, Jones said: “I certainly wouldn’t say it in front of officials, that’s for sure.”
The minister has previously defended other comments by pointing out they were about the Waitangi Tribunal, which is not technically a court, but a commission of inquiry.
On Monday, he said it’s been pointed out to him that some of those on the tribunal – including the chair – are judges. They are also “by and large covered by this cloak as well of comity”, Jones said.
His future focus will be “things that frustrate my development-orientated ambitions as the Regional Development Minister”.
“I’ve got every right to delve into how policies or laws might need to be changed if anomalies are shown up in judicial decisions, but it’s got to be conducted within the context of comity, so going forward, I shall now focus my rhetoric on bats, blind frogs, [and] skinks.”
Asked if he believed the Cabinet Manual was too limiting of what ministers could say, Jones said he would “park all that up and leave those matters for the Attorney-General”.
Both the Bar Association and the Law Society wrote to the Attorney-General about Jones’ comments, with the Law Society arguing he had “breached” principles of comity and mutual respect and called for the Government to “make a clear, public statement” reminding ministers of their obligations.
Jamie Ensor is a political reporter in the NZ Herald Press Gallery team based at Parliament. He was previously a TV reporter and digital producer in the Newshub Press Gallery office.
