Winston Peters arrives at the Cordis hotel with an update on how coalition talks are tracking.
Video / NZ Herald
National leader Christopher Luxon is indicating a separate deal between Act and New Zealand First may be required to finally conclude negotiations to form the next government.
It comes as Luxon reveals a meeting scheduled with Act leader David Seymour today was not necessary and the pair have communicated by phone throughout the day to resolve a couple of outstanding issues.
Luxon emerged from the Cordis Hotel just after 6pm to update reporters about how today’s negotiations had fared.
He said his two-and-a-half hour chat with NZ First leader Winston Peters was “very good”.
Asked whether Seymour’s absence indicated National and Act were close to a deal, Luxon didn’t answer directly but said speaking over the phone was more practical than the Act leader travelling to the hotel in-person.
Luxon said it was his intention to hold a meeting between the three leaders in the coming days but not before further talks between individual leaders took place over the weekend, likely in Auckland.
The three leaders have only met altogether once before and it was only a brief coming together.
Asked why there was a need for another three-way meeting, Luxon said it was important for all parties to be clear on what had been agreed and have an opportunity to raise any last-minute issues.
It was understood the arrangement of the agreement between the three parties was still yet to be decided upon.
So far, Luxon had referenced separate deals National was looking to strike between Act and NZ First. Luxon said it had been something the three leaders had spoken about and revealed a deal between Act and NZ First was “something that we will look to do”.
Pressed on why three separate deals were necessary, Luxon said he wouldn’t speculate publicly.
Asked if Kiwis could rule out an agreement being reached this weekend, Luxon was not specific, saying he would meet with Act and NZ First on Sunday if needed.
Luxon had previously stated he would want to be in Wellington to announce the completed formation of the next government.
Winston Peters: ‘We’re probably closer to the finish line than you guys think’
Earlier this afternoon NZ First leader Winston Peters said a “few more hours” were needed before the next governing arrangement could be finalised.
However he believed “we’re probably closer to the finish line than you guys think”, he told reporters gathered outside Auckland’s Cordis hotel.
Peters, who just finished a two-and-a-half hour meeting with National, cautioned against expecting an announcement today.
He also revealed the mini-Budget he and incoming National Finance Minister Nicola Willis had promised before Christmas, may be scaled down.
Peters wouldn’t elaborate on what had been achieved in today’s meeting but confirmed it was solely focused on policy and indicated there had been no discussion between NZ First and National about ministerial portfolios or who would take the role of Deputy Prime Minister.
“Not quite,” Peters said when asked if policy disagreements between the two parties had been ironed out.
He suspected it would be a “bit premature” to expect an announcement today. Peters believed he would be in Auckland for the weekend, echoing National leader Christopher Luxon earlier today.
However, Peters said it was possible he and Seymour would talk in the afternoon. Seymour was set to have a meeting with Luxon at some stage today.
Ahead of his meeting, Peters acknowledged some of NZ First’s policies had been ruled out during negotiations.
Asked to name those policies, Peters refused and said it was not the time for him to make those kinds of announcements.
“We’ve got to do that collectively.”
When asked if the next government would deliver on promises of a mini-Budget before Christmas, Peters said: “I think I can say that, yes. Not a mini-Budget but an announcement.”
He left in his vehicle before he could elaborate on what form that announcement would take.
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters arrives at the Cordis Hotel in Auckland for further coalition talks with National. Photo / Dean Purcell
Earlier, Peters couldn’t say whether both New Zealand First and National would be able to conclude their discussions on policy today, as coalition talks look set to go on into the weekend.
“The answer’s not with me, it’s with others as well.”
The New Zealand First leader has returned to the Cordis Hotel in Auckland for another meeting with Christopher Luxon and National today.
Yesterday, Peters said his nearly three-hour meeting with Luxon was entirely focused on policy. The allocation of ministerial positions hadn’t yet been debated, he said.
Today, Peters said it was not for him to decide whether ministerial positions would be discussed.
He acknowledged not all NZ First policies were still on the table at this stage of negotiations, but didn’t elaborate on which ones.
“Some things are not, we’ve gone a long way down the track on that.”
He couldn’t answer how long he would be in Auckland for negotiations.
He ended his roughly two-minute media stand-up by saying any discussions of specifics done in public would erode confidence within negotiations and make it more difficult to reach a deal.
However, he said the three parties were going “as fast as we possibly can”.
Earlier: Luxon ‘expects to stay in Auckland for the weekend’
Speaking to media this morning, Luxon also wouldn’t put a date on when he expected a deal to be finalised. He expected he would stay in Auckland for the weekend and would return to Wellington when they were ready.
Luxon, arriving at the Cordis Hotel in Auckland alongside deputy leader Nicola Willis, said he wasn’t sure whether National and NZ First could work out their policy differences today.
Yesterday, sessions with Peters and Seymour lasted more than two hours each.
National leader Christopher Luxon and deputy leader Nicola Willis arrive at the Cordis in Auckland for further talks on forming the next government. Photo / Dean Purcell
The meeting with Peters was purely on policy matters as the two parties were yet to discuss ministerial positions - something Luxon wanted to keep for the end of negotiations.
Luxon today said there had been talks with Act regarding ministerial portfolio allocation but “just in very loose terms”.
He wouldn’t speculate on which of NZ First’s policies National wouldn’t entertain.
Seymour yesterday said he believed his party’s policy to hold a referendum on the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi was still a “live possibility”, despite National not supporting it.
Luxon, renowned for not going into detail when speaking to media, would not answer whether he thought the policy was a live possibility at this stage in negotiations.
Luxon said yesterday he would want to outline confirmed governing arrangements from Wellington.
Luxon had previously referenced his experience with mergers and acquisitions when he worked for Unilever and Air New Zealand as evidence of his ability to secure a deal with Act and NZ First.
Asked about that experience, Luxon wouldn’t go into specifics but said he’d learned the importance of taking the appropriate time to reach an agreement.
He did acknowledge that when he became Air NZ chief executive, he sold the airline’s position in Virgin Australia Airlines.
Arriving at the Cordis hotel in Auckland today, National Party MP Chris Bishop told reporters he opted not to travel in on a scooter this morning after yesterday’s debacle, where he fell off and spilled his coffee.
Today he was holding two coffees which appeared to be unspilt.
National Party MP Chris Bishop arriving at the Cordis for coalition talks. Photo / Dean Purcell
Bishop would not say whether there would be a coalition deal today.
Fellow MP Simeon Brown remained coy about the details, but said they were “getting close”. Photo / Dean Purcell
He said the party does not have any plans at this stage to make announcements by this coming Monday.
“Everyone’s fully engaged in the negotiations, multiple meetings and going through the process, and there’ll be more meetings today.”
Brown repeatedly said there were “various people in various meetings” and wouldn’t narrow down his personal role in the negotiations.
National Party president Sylvia Wood also arrived but didn’t make a statement to media.
Partial deal done - Seymour
Seymour this morning refused to answer outright if he trusts Winston Peters - having called him New Zealand’s least trustworthy politician during the election campaign.
“Whatever statements we’ve had on the campaign trail aren’t going to help us work together and solve the problems that people have asked us to solve over the next 1000 days,” he told TVNZ’s Breakfast this morning.
“The people have asked us to trust each other … so that’s what we’re going to do.”
Seymour said Act had “partially” got a deal done with National and he was “pretty close” to a deal to take to the board this weekend but it wasn’t certain. But any deal needed to be between three parties.
Asked if Peters was behind the hold-up, Seymour said it would be unfair to blame any particular person.
He expected to meet with NZ First more than once in the coming days, including today.
“We’ve met them just about every day this week.”
Seymour appeared to confirm that the idea of him being deputy Prime Minister had been discussed, but it was one among many options, and he would not go into details out of respect for his negotiating partners.
Extended talks took place yesterday at the Cordis Hotel in Auckland where National’s negotiating team was based. Peters and Seymour arrived for separate meetings in the afternoon after National had had its own discussions.
It was expected today’s schedule would be similar to yesterday, with talks likely to continue in Auckland.
Peters, flanked by his ever-present chief of staff Darroch Ball, spent close to three hours in a room with Luxon and deputy leader Willis.
After emerging from the meeting room, Peters said the two parties were yet to agree completely on policy, and therefore had not moved on to discussing the make-up of Cabinet and ministerial positions, which was expected to be among the final things to determine before securing a deal.
National’s tax plan, which included allowing foreign buyers into the upper end of the housing market, and Act’s Treaty of Waitangi referendum had been regularly cited as points of contention between the future governing parties.
Also understood to be an issue was the structure of the deal struck between the three parties. National had largely been negotiating and developing agreements with Act and NZ First separately, instead of one agreement locking in support from all parties.
Seymour, who entered his meeting about 5.30pm alongside Act deputy leader Brooke van Velden and third-ranked MP Nicole McKee, said he felt the parties were on the “cusp” of a deal but cautioned reporters, reminding them he could not speak for Luxon and Peters.
“The parties have to cross-check different deals, the parties all have to go back and check with their stakeholders, the board.
”Those are things that have to happen and could take a couple of days. But in terms of getting the substance done, I think we’re in a good place.”
NZ First leader Winston Peters was in a jovial mood as he arrived at the Cordis hotel in Auckland for talks with National. Photo / Sylvie Whinray
Unlike NZ First, Seymour said there had been discussion with National about ministerial posts alongside remaining policy hurdles.
He added a three-party coalition was his preferred arrangement but indicated other arrangements had been discussed.
”I think in a lot of ways it would be the best arrangement with all three parties who are in a coalition but I’m just one and I can’t dictate what the others do, so that’s a question I can really only answer on behalf of Act.”
Seymour emerged two hours later saying the deputy PM role was being discussed and he believed a deal could be inked by Sunday.
It was Seymour’s expectation that Act would be inside Cabinet and he suspected NZ First expected the same.
He was optimistic a deal could be reached by Sunday.
“I still believe it’s possible this week.”
On Wednesday at Auckland’s Pullman Hotel, Peters met with Luxon and his team for more than two hours in the evening, followed by a similarly long meeting yesterday.
National MPs Bishop, Brown and Paul Goldsmith, along with party president Sylvia Wood, were not included in the meeting and waited in the hotel lobby.
However, Peters did make the effort to shake their hands on leaving the Cordis.
Peters adamantly hosed down speculation he had stood both Luxon and Seymour up by not travelling to Wellington on Tuesday when it was expected the three leaders would meet.
He claimed he had rescheduled flights after Singapore Foreign Minister Vivian Balakrishnan had called to arrange a meeting in Auckland following his attendance at the Pacific Islands Forum in Rarotonga.
Luxon, who spent eight minutes speaking with media yesterday morning, said any suggestion Peters was sending a message to the two other leaders by his no-show in Wellington was “absolute rubbish”.
National leader Christopher Luxon spent eight minutes speaking to media yesterday morning about the progress of negotiations. Photo / Michael Craig
Peters also revealed he and representatives of Act had met daily over the past five days, but said little except that the meetings were “very positive”.
Of talks with National, Peters said they were “positive” but “hard work”.
“There’s always been progress every day despite what you guys write and the reality is it’s going with the greatest of speed possible,” Peters said.
“This is normal and when we’ve got the facts all sorted out and agreed on, we can announce the results.
“Anything else in between time, of course, is to divulge private information which just breeds distrust.”
Adam Pearse is a political reporter in the NZ Herald Press Gallery team, based at Parliament. He has worked for NZME since 2018, covering sport and health for the Northern Advocate in Whangārei before moving to the NZ Herald in Auckland, covering Covid-19 and crime.
