KEY POINTS:
Mat
What an absolutely terrible idea. I would recommend to the Maori Party that they immediately sack this woman lest they find themselves voterless next election, as I haven't met a Maori person yet (or anyone else for that matter) who would willingly support gangs!
Philip Robson
An interesting article; however as pointed out in the article engagement has been tried before and has obviously failed.Now society is left with a serious problem to address and having tried engagement and providing space which didn't work, as a society we must accept the responsibility to get tough with gangs to stamp them out in their current form. As a society we allow them to prey on and take advantage of people who cannot help themselves as well as organising crime for their financial benefit, this is one of the causes of the fractured society we live in.
Mike (Wellington)
Tariana Turia seems only to want to act as an apologist for gangs. It may well be that some form of engagement might make for some change of behaviour. Until then , however I will indulge in some "moral panic" based on my own experiences with gangs. House burgled and coming home to find the guy still in the house. Throwing me through a hedge when they realised I didn't have anything worth mugging me for.
Geoff
She should stand down from parliament for those coments. Trying to push gangs in to living a legitimate lives is a waste of time. Defending there actions is even worse.
Arron
Turia just wants to steal some of Chairman Helen's support. Gang members have prospered under the handouts of Labour and the justice system under them where no-one gets punished for crime. The only way to turn these votes to the Maori party is maybe to have some Huis costing millions to the taxpayer where the bro's can eat, drink and be merry and sit around talking for a few days when nothing will change at the end of it. Then Chairman Helen will have to up the anti to win her core supporters back, maybe increase benefits and WINZ handouts again. Who cares, it only poor old middle class whitey paying for it all (the ones that haven't already left NZ for greener pastures).
Julz
I think she does have a point, we should listen to the older gang members the ones that truly want to try and make this a better land and place to live in for both themself's and their families. But it has to be a little bit of a give and take situation, we listen to them and they need to listen to us. The gangs seem to have either gotten worse since I was a young girl. But if listening to them will help us better understand their thinking then why not, nothing else is working.
Neil
The concerned feedback is as valid as Ms Turia's pleas for engagement. The gangs show no engagement with Police initiatives or Crimes Act enforcement generally. Those gang activities viewed as dreadful by middle class NZ; Illegal Drugs, crime-related violence & intimidation are completely repugnant.
But so are the underlying issues that gave rise to gangs' existence a generation or more ago. This is worth discussion time.The full power of the law must be applied to the repugnant activities and concurrent social engagement encouraging a new way of thinking for individual gang members and their families has to be ramped up. If the gang members won't acknowledge this as individuals and change, they are doomed to isolation in their self-imposed walled world. Gang members are foolish to think their strengths are sufficient to ensure long-term existence - 40 years or so is not a long time. Superior force in the jungle of this society will eventually find a way to eliminate the nasty aspects of the gang way of life. It may though be a more brutal solution than the gang members imagine. That would be a dark day.Ms Turia is to be applauded for having the courage to take this on.
Adam
Who is controlling the majority of P manufacturing & distribution -gangs.
Where does a large percentage of gang income derive from: drugs & robberies?Surely any MP linked to this has no credibility either.
S Olsen
Is this woman idiocy personified?
Simon
I hate gangs and gang culture and all of the abhorrent behaviour that damages lives and hits the headlines every day. But this is why I actually agree with Tariana's suggestion. No society can hope to change behaviour without understanding the motivations of the parties involved. So, to actually stop gang behaviour we have to learn what we, as a society, need to do to prevent our youth going down such a destructive and unsocial path. I truly wish a majority of hard-working tax payers could be enough to fix our entire society, but it isn't: it's a much bigger, tougher, messier task that. Voting once every few years for someone else to build higher fences and bigger prisons won't protect our children or our lifestyles. Talking with each other isn't a waste of time; it is a wise and essential investment if we are ever to build truly safe communities.
Tiana
Ha, she's got to be joking. Why would anyone with half a brain, want the opinion of any gang member? To get into most gangs (patched) you have to do a crime (rob a bank, break into job/homes) and Tariana wants to actually listen to what these low lifes have to say? Gangs intimidate normal people and it's got to stop. Don't give any power to these kinds of people. Hey, saying this is wrong on so many different levels.
Kataraina
Since time immemorial, Maori have always been brilliant strategists, which is a politically correct way of saying extremely cunning. Turiana and her ilk are simply living out their ability to establish yet another con that will ultimately cost the NZ taxpayer another few million in 'funding'(to help the disadvantaged, of course). Wake up NZ. Can't you see the funny side of this?
Concerned
Turiana Turia is in lala land if she seriously considers that any good will come out of listening to gang members. These anti-social members of our society have proved time and time again through their disgusting and violent behaviour that they don't want to be honest hard working and contributing members of our society, quite the opposite. To me they are societal scum, beneath decent people's contempt.
Peter Goh
Turia's statement is the epitome of political correctness gone stark raving mad! There should be zero tolerance on organised crime which is what gangs are all about. Turia's naivety seen in her statement seems to give gangs a respectable status equivalent to that of a non-government organisation which is ludicrous.
There should instead be a concerted and systematic effort by all government organisations to dismantle the gangs once and for all. One does not get rid of vermin by molly coddling sweet talk.
Jesse
Earth to Tariana, you must be kidding! Community opinion of gang culture was formed over many years, and on good evidence. Surely it must be time for Helen to have 'the little chat' and explain to her the theory behind why we build prisons and why the police regularly patrol 'gangland' areas. For example, P has had a huge impact on NZ, destroying people's lives and families. Gangs are the primary reason this drug has an established distribution channel and why it is having such a negative impact on society. These gangs generate huge income from their crime, allowing them to live well beyond their normal means. Why would they be inclined to give it up? Why would these people want to go and get a 'normal' job and contribute to society? Pay tax, add to the GDP etc etc. Has Tariana had her eyes closed? If we start seriously listening to these groups, I for one would be willing to lead the revolt! The best way to prove to someone that you want change is through actions not words. Last time I heard they were still killing children, dealing drugs and fighting on the streets. This is not normal behaviour Tariana. And they want people to listen huh?
Got to be kidding!
This "Member of Parliament" does not even condone a comment. She is a joke and New Zealand's worst enemy. Helen Clarke wonders why everyone is moving to Australia! They are all a joke!
Matt (Pukekohe)
It really surprises me that with an election coming up Tariana is coming out with ridiculous ideas like this. It eats my insides up knowing my tax dollars are paying this woman's wages. It seems to me she is very "gang friendly". The problem with our Parliament is that there is no recourse for politicians, no accountability, and very little common sense. It angers me that with the drugs, drive by shootings of recent times, and all of the reported gang troubles, she would come out with something so absurd. NZ is too soft and too PC - it really needs to get rid of MMP and get some non-PC hard line government in there to crack down on gangs and immigration laws - should be three strikes your out of this country if you come here and commit crime. I will not be voting for the Maori party or any other party that supports them.
Carl
I agree with Ms. Turia's proposal, but let's not do things in 1/2 measures. Better still to go the 'whole hog' and simply ask them to govern the country itself!
Adam Williams
I agree with Tariana Turia. Gangs aren't the real problem, she is. Stupid MPs pose a greater threat to society than a gang of criminals ever could.
Gareth
Why is listening bad? Gangs might have some useful ideas for us. Did you see how the gang story sat below a 'rich and famous' story with the photo of the guy who just got let off the $60 million insider trading case? The government creates the conditions that gangs flourish in - poverty and despair. Most writers probably haven't even driven through the damaged communities they denigrate. Good on Tariana for telling us to challenge the paranoia. Let's focus on the Richwhite's of the world too.
Ian Morine
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise that a vote for the Maori Party is a wasted vote, an MP outside the government looking in can do nothing, whereas an MP inside looking out is much more productive. It's difficult to imagine the Maori Party every having any power, especially when they come up with such ridiculous comments like this one, suggesting gangs should have a say in the way society treats them. If the Maori Party had their way "the tail would wag the dog!"
Michael
Tariana and the rest of the Maori Party are an absolute joke - they do not represent their constituency with rubbish like this. And we are paying for these people.
LOL
Mrs Turia this week met Professor Angela Davis, a former Black Panther member, who has been visiting New Zealand and who advocates "liberating the mind as well as liberating society". == Great, and the gangs can provide the crack to do this!
Susan O'Neill
Should we listen to the gangs? Why on earth should we? Tariana Turia is a menace to society, every time she opens her mouth she proves that she is a fool. Gangs should be disbanded, they should not be allowed to live in state houses, in fact the best thing to do would be to round up all gang members, drop them on an island far far away and let them sort themselves out, would make great TV viewing Survivor - Gang Style. Would solve all our problems here, Tariana could go as well to mediate. Ah wishful thinking.
Margot
Once were warriors. Now theives, drug dealers, rapists and murderers.
It's a Joke, Right!
Pardon my mirth but If I have to listen to some gang member who does not conform to the ideals of New Zealand citizenship standards, then I must be mentally deficient. I have not broken any laws, I have been thrifty, I have worked voluntarily to help my fellow New Zealanders, too. Now I begin to wonder whether responsibility for one's actions is the correct thing after all. I think gang members need to rethink their place in a decent society. But, hello, who said New Zealanders live in a decent society? Tell me who really cares!It's all a joke, right!
DB (Auckland)
Engaging ourselves in conflict is going to solve the issue. I am not prepared to accept that criminals should have any right telling society how they should be treated in. But at the same time I am not opposed to listen to them if they have any acceptable solution to bring them back in the mai stream as long as they are ready for transform themselves into law abiding citizens.One thing these gangs or their sympathisers need to understand that a workable society is run by certain rules and every body who want to reap the benefit in a society has to follow these rules.I have not come across any person/gangs, who are opposed to our system, denying the social and monetary benefits they get from the same society.
Leo
I've been reading over these gang issues for a while now and it would appear that the leaders of this country are not wanting to take ownership of the problem. It is funny that Mrs Turia has met with Angela Davis. It is almost as though she is trying to establish a comparison between The Civil Rights movement in America and the "situation" in New Zealand. Angela Davis and the Black Panthers fought for the rights of african americans who were oppressed. Even into the 90s Tupac Shakur was fighting against a system which forced people to be stopped on the street and checked for no particular reason. New Zealand Gangs are trying to act like and mirror those gangs in America which had a solid purpose and goal. What goals do the Black Power, Mongrel Mob, etc have? They have roofs over their head, they have food in their mouths because New Zealand gives them that if they are employed or not.In my opinion they are a group of people who feel oppressed by society due to the colour of their skin or background/ culture and want to go around New Zealand playing "Gangsta" and acting like "thugs" .New Zealand is a country whose laws and ethics are in place for the good of the people.
Rosina
No - Tariana has it wrong.Most Maori dont support gangs - she doesnt speak for me thats for sure.I'm not interested in listening to what a bunch of criminals have to say unless they first can demonstrate willingness to change.
Benson
Yes Tariana, go the mongrel mob. They are peace loving people. On the news 2 nights ago Tariana's partner in crime Pita Sharples was complaining about a French company using the name 'Maori'. He said you can't, you may bring our proud peoples name into disrepute. The next 3 articles were about a rape, a murder and a stolen car police persuit. No guesses about the 'proud people' who were arrested..
CB
She is very right. Listening is the only way towards emancipation.
C Y from Auckland
Unbelievable, Good on you Turia. Let's hear the gang , then let the gangs members join the Maori party so we can get the support from gang members. At the same time, allow them to create more crime so voter get disappointed from the government And believe only the Maori party can calm the Gang.
Hopefully, by doing that, we can win the election and govern the country by gang's member. Perfect plan. Not.
DaveB
We should round up every single gang member and export them all to Stewart Island. There they can have the freedom to do what they want, killing and intimidating whomever they please (removing the current residents of the island first, naturally). Since Turia feels they all have something to offer, she will obviously have no qualms about joining them. If they can then thrive and prosper and show they are capable leaders and citizens, maybe we will listen to them. Until then, they are scumbags.
Justin
She's got to be joking. The day we start listening to gangs will the day I book a one-way ticket to Australia.How does someone like Tariana get into Parliament?
JPS
NZ gangs need to be treated like what they are: fundamentally bad and hopeless people. The same is true of the usual 5 per cent of conceited liberal elites who support them.
west
i've got a good idea.Turia might like to front up to the residents of Wanganui and listen to their concerns and support them and confront the criminal minority who are ruining lives.But no, she takes opposite sides, tries to undermine the police force, has obviously no pride in the area she lives in and no desire to see positive change and for some reason thinks negative gang publicity is a ruse to hide insider trading.This woman has no credibility or mana whatsoever in my opinion.
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