- Jeanette
Sometimes religion in schools is all a child gets. It's important they have something to base thoughts on, as no religion can end up leaving a spiritual void which runs the risk of being filled in later years by extremist thoughts and ideas.
Religious study in schools school be a basic insight (adjusted depending on year level) into all religions in a general sense...they all say not to kill, steal, etc they all are after a peaceful world and a happy life. The aim should be for religious tolerance and understanding to be taught. Knowledge dispels ignorance. All should have this as part of the curriculum as PE is keeping the body healthy religious study keeps the mind healthy with lessons on the virtues all religions are seeking.
- J Bradley
Here is something to add to the debate - I run programs in three local schools and I can tell you from hands on experience that since we have removed the strap from schools the level of violence from students to teachers and students to other students has increased. Not what the stupid experts said would happen. No doubt they will blame someone else... Instead of students being disciplined and sent back to class to learn now they are just kicked out of the school. Bring back the strap and give our youth a chance at life - either that or start building a lot more prisons. If we don't discipline them now we will just have to put them in prison later.
- Stephen
It is ridiculous and offensive to suggest that violence and dogma are required to give kids morals. Morals are gained through a good upbringing, education, and parents and teachers who provide a good example. Religion has nothing to do with it. Religious people are not more "moral", they are just more willing to spout off about morals. Look at the state of the world; do you really see evidence of religion bringing peace, harmony and morality? Or just war, bigotry and ignorance?
- Daniel Jones
In the interest of free speech and freedom of expression no one should restrict the expression one's faith in school. In fact I think to a large extent Christianity provides strong moral values that are sadly lacking in the New Zealand culture. Prayer helps to bring people to the reality of the existence of God and what He is able to do for them. Without that we really have nothing to hang on to. This is what made New Zealand strong in the past and we should never loose that heritage.
- Sreedhar Subramaniam
We looked at sending our son to this school and I have to say that although I think it should be a personal choice for both Parents & the School, I chose not to send my son there because I couldn't bear the thought of him being strapped. And I have no doubts that being a little boy (a barely tolerated species in schools these days) he would have!!
- Dell
I hope we are not going to get silly over this question of religion and the other day the wearing of a crucifix being banned. A friend in England tells me there is a movement under way to remove the "Saint" from Churches because it could be offensive to Muslims, etc.
- B G Fuller
And we're surprised because?... How many more direct attacks on the morals, principles and beliefs of our grandparents (and their grandparents, and their grandparents...) do we need to see before recognising Uncle Helen's plans for what they are? How many more of our true friends and allies do we need to turn our backs on before we find ourselves alone in a dark world, surrounded by bomb-toting jihadists singing "thank you very much for your kind dona... BANG" How many more of our teenage daughters do we have to put through alcoholism counselling before we start calling a bad idea a "BAD IDEA"? Thanks Helen - don't forget to turn the lights off on your way out. Wake up New Zealand. Smell the coffee. It's burnt.
- Dan
Oh dear, we have a problem! Under the proposed new interpretation we will no longer be able to sing the National Anthem. "God (oops, sorry) of Nations" is a prayer to the God of the Bible. ie the Christian God so it will have to go. Maybe we could teach our children the Kamate haka? Maybe we could teach them some equity at the same time and include the throat slitting gesture in it so that they learn how to respect others. Maybe this is where a socialist government steps over the line and becomes an openly communist one.
- Rob Holding
Personally I'm sick of Christianity being such a big part of our country when all it does is cause wars & issues.
Ban religion all together I say.
- Lou
In my view (being a generation X-er and the last year that the strap was used on) I am 100% against corporal punishment... Why? Well, putting it quite simply it's antiquated, a relic and a tool for intimidation and abuse. Keep it (the strap) in the dark recesses of the past, gathering dust, and never to be inflicted on our precious youth again.
- B Cooney
How many people want now to sue their doctors for slapping them at birth to assist them to start breathing? The PC Brigade appears to be all for positive outcomes but puts absolutely no rational thought into how those outcomes are achieved. Smacking is not the monster that causes violent behaviour. Warped morality imposed on the public by politicians might be though.
- Allan
This subject came up a few years ago at a Te Atatu school. Pupils were asked if they wanted to attend Christian classes before and after school hours. Some parents complained that they did not want there children indoctrinated. I say now, as I said then, all religions should be taught at school, as a tool to let our young people know what religion is about. I see a future where a girl will go home from school and say to mum, why do I have wear a scarf over my head, or another child, why do I have to make a cross on my body. There are so many things in this life that need explaining and the sooner
we come to terms with it, perhaps we can get away from the dogma of the causes of so many wars.
- John Poole
Here we go again the Labour Party and it's cohorts. Christianity is part n parcel of our culture/heritage. Next they will be building prayer rooms for non Christians /new New Zealanders. Many parents are breaking their necks to get their children into Christian based schools these schools are bursting at the seams so as their children will have better disipline and I'm sure they'll all get prayers there. Oh by the way will all the experts continue to celebrate Christmas & Easter, by having holidays.
- Hugh Chapman
Given religion is defined as 'a world view' or a 'belief system' if the government wants to exclude religion, they should be excluding anything that embodies atheism, agnosticism, hedonism, or any other 'anti-establishment' world view or belief system.
- David Knight
Religious content encourages good morals and behaviour, and will only add to a childs education not detract from it. If a parent is against religious education enough they will write a letter or sign a form to get their child out of it. But most parents don't mind either way. Making it such an issue will only mean that kids miss out on something that they enjoy and that adds value to their development. Cutting out the national anthem or other prayer where appropriate is taking political correctness too far, and where will it end? Those of us who have been through primary school with it included have generally turned out fine!
- Sarah.S
Religion is all about spreading the message through any means possible, violent or otherwise. So it's unsurprising that the old guard in religious schools feel like they're lost if they can't physically abuse their students. Ah, the halcyon days of the whip. Education is no substitute for antiquated dogma, is it?
- Carl Reynolds
No doubt we can look forward to no primary school in NZ singing the National Anthem as it too is a prayer, (and even worse a christian one as well!)
- Grahame
There should be no religion in public schools period. Let schools concentrate on learning that will help students in later life - like balancing their bank accounts. If parents want their children to learn a religion then they should send them to some private religion run school or send them to sunday school. In primary school 20+ years ago, I had to sit outside on a Thursday morning when religion class was going on, this was really quite demeaning as it was a "opt-out", but I felt pity for those who didnt opt-out but probably should have as having someones religion shoved down your throat is even more demeaning. Get religion in all manner out of state schools.
- Mathew
In our modern times we appear to roll over and accept all that the PC brigade decrees. Removing religion from our schools would be incredibly sad indeed. I am all for freedom of choice when it comes to religion but how on earth are our children to make any decision on an informed basis in regard to any religion if they cannot get hold of the cold hard facts. Schools are willing to fill our children's heads with all sorts of ideas about what rights they have in this life but they seem to forget that human rights also allow people to practice the religion of their choice without being discriminated against. Why are schools allowing Muslim prayer rooms but not Christian bible sessions? The more our children know about more religions, the more informed choices they can make as they grow in life. It's a shame that so many adults (most of whom have never had any well informed religious instruction, or have some kind of chip on their shoulder) are willing to make a blanket rule to swipe all opportunity for children to have access to the discovery of the morals and ethics behind the religions of our world. As many children come from homes where no religion is thought about, how are children to find out about it? Surely it would make a good social studies topic.
- Carolyn
It is so pathetic how our country live by double standards. "No God in schools; ONLY on the rugby field!" or "No strap; but it's OKAY for dak!"... or how about this one: "No breastfeeding in public; ONLY Boobs on Bikes!" Get real NZ. 20 years ago it was okay to mention God in our schools, it was okay to pray, and it was okay to get one strap on the hand if you were disobedient or disruptive in class. Now, it's against the law to mention God in our public schools, and it's against the law to discipline our own children whether at home or in school... And you wonder why our kids are on the streets and joining gangs??? Here's a rude awakening for you: What do the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, Headhunters, the King Cobras, Samoan Bloods, Tongan Crypts, the Dog Pound, the Black Islanders, and many other "GANGS" have in common??? They ALL teach discipline.
- Taufau
Karakia is fundamental to learning. Anyone with any intelligence will understand the power of spiritual learning. It does not concern me because right always overcomes wrong, its just that nobody gives a damn about the casualties we develop in our society. This is just another attempt for man to want to be "independent" - when you look around at the beauty of the world that has been created for us the madness of it all is so clear.
- David Koni
So what happens to the National Anthem...perhaps God of Nations at thy feet --> becomes .....(Insert chosen religious idol here) at thy feet, and concludes with .....(Insert chosen religious idol here)defend our FREE land, or .....(Insert chosen religious idol here) defend New Zealand. Come on, just what is the Ministry trying to achieve here? It's OK for boobs in broad daylight but morality banned...does this sound ridiculous to anyone else?
- Kim
The introduction of corporal punishment within a classroom would indeed result in remarkably subdued and "well-behaved" students. But these students would resent the person who inflicted the punishment, and would behave well only because they feared the consequences of behaving badly. This method of achieving "good" behaviour is severely flawed, and results in behaviour that is superficial: at best, skin deep. I can tell you from many years' teaching experience, that the classrooms which are filled with enthusiasm; love of learning; eagerness to do well; and well-behaved students, are NOT the ones where the students fear the consequences of behaving badly. Rather - they see the rewards for behaving well.
- Amelia
....and please tell me Mr Minister why karakia (prayer)is acceptable because it is "spiritual and not religious", and Christian prayer is not!? What utter nonsense. Just another example of PC rubbish....lest Labour offends Maori.
- D Smit
The Government is keen to teach children immorals (condom use etc). Let them be jsut as keen to teach children morals!
- Terry Donovan
If a child is punished, it should be because he/she has done something he/she knows to be wrong. They will be all the better for it. They will realise their mistake and in most cases will turn from that path. If the guidelines are there for the kids to follow, then yes they should be disciplined accordingly when they step out of line. It will teach them that for certain actions, come certain consequences. It's not cruelty. It's actually showing them you care enough about them to teach them what's right, and what's wrong. Not to let them do as they please.
- Vini Leavi
It cannot be denied that Christianity played a great role in Western culture, and in fact, it can be said that the Western culture itself has many aspects that is Christian in nature. This is something that needs to be acknowledged by the pseudo-bleeding heart PC brigade. Taking all religion out of schools would mean the end of Western culture as we know it. Not only that, many of our very laws has their basis in Christianity. The so-called public decency laws are Christian in nature. Recently in Auckland, we have the mayor wanting to enact laws against the freedom of expression due to a fundamentalist Christian belief that the "Boobs on Bikes" parade is immoral. No consideration is given to the fact that the people involved were not coerced, and in fact happy to participate in such a display. No. It was against his belief, and so, BAM! He is trying to get it enshrined in law. I am no Christian myself, but even I acknowledge that if you remove everything religious, you might as well throw the law out the window while you are at it.
- Adrian Wong
I fail to see how the lack of smacking in school is somehow responsible for the rise in violent criminals and offenders in society. There are many other factors for why society is getting more violent and is far too complex to just narrow down to one cause. As for schools smacking children - leave that to the parents if they really want to do that. On the other hand, parents are aware of certain schools methods of punishment, and can choose not to send them there. While I don't agree with quite a few of Green's policies, to claim that they support breaking the law by trying to CHANGE the law regarding marijuana is just foolish. I fail to see the logic that appealing against a senseless law is criminal. I have never been smacked at school, and VERY seldomly smacked by my parents. I am not a violent criminal, nor a thug. I do not steal or mistreat people. If people need to smack someone to earn their respect, then I think there's something missing in the picture!
- Brett Le Mouton
What the hell are the Greens thinking? Tree hugging hippies wanting peace love and mungbeans should try telling todays out of control children that stern words will work better than a slap on the hands/butt. If parents have chosen a certain school and given permission for the child to be disciplined, then why are they wading in trying to have their say? The demise of corporal punishment as I went through school marked a decrease in respect for teachers and the job they do. Tree hugging hippies be damned!
- Charlie
So exactly how many child rapes and killings will be prevented each year by restricting parents and schools from disciplining our children?
- Ron Bruce
I'm getting extremely tired of Sue Bradford's anti-smacking campaign, and I can't help but see the irony in her outraged cries that this school is breaking the law, given that the Greens are all for breaking the law in other areas (marijuana, anyone?) I don't have children yet, but if and when I do, I most certainly don't want the government or the PC brigade telling me how to raise them. Almost everyone I know got the occasional smack as children, and none of us feel that we've been scarred for life by it – if anything, we're glad that we got a bit more discipline than most kids these days do. And just to be clear, I'm neither Christian nor right-wing – I'm not religious and happily centre-left. I'm also heartily sick to death of the PC brigade trying to socially engineer this country.
- Caroline
How far can the PC Brigade go. Stooping so low as to even consider Christmas Carols as being illegal in schools. Honestly if were going to go that far then we had better stop singing "God Save the Queen" and "God Defend New Zealand". The PC Brigade ignores the fact Christianity has played a major role in the development of Western world. Teaching children Christmas carols, or even traditional prayers (Lords Prayer, Nicence Creed) is instructing them about part of our heritage. The existing optout system for religious teaching in state schools works well, what schools need to do is ensure that parents are aware of the system and be informed when there will be religious instruction. One wonders if there would be so much ranting and raving over this issue if another religion was invovled.
- Lucas Brown
I find it laughable that Sue Bradford is railing against schools like Tyndale smacking because it is "against the law". The only laws she respects, it seems, are her own. Two of my children attended Tyndale Park Christian School for three years. It is a lovely peaceful school with a dedicated staff with contented students. The education level is excellent and is responsible for my children having a reading age well above the national average. I know of no other school that has the same emphasis on character with resultant pleasant student attitudes & behaviour. I grieve that there are those in parliament with no interest in children's wellbeing, who insist on interfering in the bringing up of children by competent caring parents and those to whom they delegate. Ms Bradford’s attacks on Tyndale are indirectly aimed at certain parents who have chosen to send their children there. Once section 58 has been repealed there will of course be no more legal protection for parents who smack. Assurances otherwise are incorrect. This is the thin end of a very wide wedge. If you are a parent who cares enough to smack, interesting times lie ahead.
- Mark Taylor
It is appalling that a school could use such barbaric practices in this day and age. Corporal punishment for adults in this country was abolished in the 1940's. It seems incredulous that it was retained for children in schools until the 1980's. At a time when child abuse is a major concern in NZ, I find it beyond belief that a so called Christian school has these policies. They are not above the law and we shold all support an investigation.
- Brent
Schools need to be able to discipline students. Strapping is quick, effective and over. Todays children have many 'rights' given to them, but are not taught the responsibilities that go with those rights - and society is paying the price. It is interesting to note that since smacking at home and strapping in schools were discouraged because they apparently produced violent people, the violence, particularly by young people, has escalated dramatically - to bus drivers, taxi drivers, people in the street in broad daylight etc. etc. I received the strap at primary school with absolutely no adverse affects in adulthood, except perhaps for a respect for authority. My children were smacked when young, and they have turned into good well-adjusted adults with no hang-ups, plenty of independant character and no violent tendancies. We remain a close-knit family. I feel that words leave far more of a psycological scar on children that smacking at home (not hitting or beating) or school strapping.
- Barbara
Once again this government in its wisdom seems to think it knows better than the parent on how to bring up our own children. Did they give birth to my children, did they get up early in the morning to feed my children, did they teach my children at a young age what was dangerous, do they tuck them in at night. So why at their school years do they now think they now know what is best for my children.
- Oliver Vitali
New Zealand society should be outraged and totally disgusted that any school, teacher or parent could in this day and age even consider this kind of punishment. While we as teachers in state schools are working hard to ensure that children have equal opportunities and develop a high level of self esteem, it seems others in our society be on the path to reproducing violent individuals through their own barbaric and primitive, uninformed and unenlightened ideas of behaviour management. No child in New Zealand should ever be placed in danger. The days of corporal punishment are gone. I would like to call upon every New Zealander to stop this happening!
- Deni Jennings Gilliland
Big surprise - a religious school that is abusive of power, backward and apparently unable to perform task at hand without using drastic and violent measures. Sounds like a future TV series. This school is fortunate our daughter isn't attendant - one whisk and we'd be filing charges. Pay attention dear governor - nary a penny of our tax revenue is to be allocated for this rubbish so someone better start looking for private funding from the mindless. A few years back a clever and distinguished neighbour had an illuminating sticker on his immaculate vehicle - it read 'the Christian right is neither'...
- Leslie
Once again the PC brigade is at it again trying to regulate every area of our lives. We should all listen to them, as after all they know best.... I mean, just like lowering the drinking age has stamped out drunken parties and under-age drinking, removing all forms of physical punishment from a child's life will automatically turn them into well behaved, well adjusted members of the wider community..... yeah right!!!
- Paul Stewart
Strapping at school never did me any harm. I sat and passed school C and UE with flying colours. The strap made me sit in class and learn rather than muck about. Kids these days get away with anything, they are not diciplined at home or school...and look whats happening to our society.... Murder is almost a daily occurance whilst 'street kids' and 'boy racers' frighten the law abiding public from stepping outside their doors after dark. I was not a bully at school, nor do I hit my own two children. Spare the rod and spoil the child. The PC brigade in NZ is out of hand and the general public are sick of them too.
- Andy Mayhew
If the parents are aware of what is going on, and choose to enrol their kids anyway, then why not? If they don't like it, they can enrol their kids elsewhere. Change the law - give schools the choice, and parents the option to choose.
- J Phillips
I do not believe any child/person deserves to be strapped or hit. People believe it will not effect them later on in life but it does. Our children should be treasured. Anyone who agrees with this type of punishment only agrees to it because they a bullies or had it done to them as a child. My parents never hit me and I turned out fine.
- Barbara
Your article states "Under the Education Act 1989, the use of force is illegal at schools except by a parent or guardian of the child. The Ministry of Education said the power of the parent cannot be delegated to the school". How is it then that teaching staff (and in particular school counsellors) deem that they have the "power" to take children to family planning or an abortion clinic without their parents consent? If this is the same Ministry who have recently said "Yes" to Maori Spirituality" and "No" to Pakeha Chistianity in schools, then it would appear that they are a confused bunch indeed - or merely just ideologically selective.
- Steve Taylor
If its required to keep the children in line, why not. Kids today are amongst the most spoilt generation ever and a bit of a slap never hurt anyone. The PC brigade of course would find it abhorrent, but parents aren't allowed to smack their kids, so why not delegate it to the school. If kids are going to grow up hating an adult, it might as well be the teachers. I had a couple of smacks at school and it never did me any harm, nor cause me to hate any of the teachers that did.
- Hayden Nash
