Officer measurement is always on easy revenue speed offenses with no serious targeting of a) low speed b) inconsiderate driving (failing to pull over frequently to allow others to pass) c) seatbelts d) bald / dangerous tyres and suspension. c) unlicensed drivers. More speeding revenue means bigger funding allocation to that district. Speed is not the real problem - the roads are. PLEASE research the number of serious accidents / fatalities on a) the old Bombay hill SH1 and collision crossroads before the new Ramarama bypass and b) Albany, Dairy Flat, Silverdale before the Northern Motorway extension. Now consider the "unforgiving highway" (SH2 Maramarua). None of the many recent fatalities have been blamed on speed, in fact many were only doing 70-80km/h. Investment is straightening and divided dual carriageways at least on SH1 and SH1 will wipe out much of the toll. Performance measurement should be weighted in favour of road safety offences, suspicious vehicles and prevention. How many of the revenue generating motorists doing 10-30 km over the 100k limit have been involved in accidents?
- Clive
Dr Andrew Montgomery has got it right. The LTSA talks about the 3 E's. Education, Enforcement and Engineering. Education = a few graphic adds on TV, Enforcement = speed camera and ticketing fines and then Engineering. Engineering lowers the road toll in New Zealand far more than the other two. Better-designed cars - things like crumple zones, air bags, side impact zones, childcare restraints you name it. Remember a few years ago when we had the "suicide lanes" on the Auckland Habour Bridge. How many people died from head on collisions in the two centre lanes, 2 a month? How many people die now? Remember the motorways when we did not have medium barriers between oncoming traffic. Again how many people died a year before these where put in? Engineering saves lives but it also costs the most. Easier for the Government to collect money than spend it!
- Colin
I don't mind how many tickets are issued, as it does not bother me, simply because I keep with in the speed limits.
- Brian Hanson
Tickets have their place and I am sure save lives however intentional revenue gathering for minor misdemeanours has NO place. You would think with all the recent adverse publicity the Police would be more pro active in repairing their somewhat tarnished public image rather that defending being caught by an embarrassing leak ...again.
- Andrew
Police quotas whatever next! Yet another cover up! 'They' will find a way out of this, just like they have with all the other things that have been 'off centre'. When the'powers that be' are found out, I'm sure heads are quickly put together and words are twisted around to justify every underhanded situation that arises. There appears to be that many 'cover ups' I have lost all faith in the 'system' that's meant to be running this family of New Zealanders. Once trust is lost everything else goes out the window. Values start at the top and by example, and I don't like the examples I see. Police should get on with the job of resolving crime which is what we are paying them to do, and leave the road safety to Traffic Cops!
- Andrea
Speeding has never been the problem nor the cause of 80-90 per cent of road deaths. The fact is that the solution is dead simple, but do we care? No let's just believe the media as every other idiot does...
For instance
this Herald story from 2004
.
You actually want to stop complaining and save lives?
#1. Dont think you are a good driver because you don't speed, you most likely have lack of driver training and pose the biggest threat to anyone
#2. Learn something from boy racers and upgrade your dam car, you drive a death trap every day to work and you don't care, ban the budget plastic tyres, they are the only point of contact with the road. Purchase some quality tires and save 30 per cent of lives
#3. Get your suspension and brakes sorted, with all 3 you can now stop up to 40 per cent shorter distance in any conditions, wow that's 40 per cent of lives saved - 200/yr.
#4. Teach people how to drive, not fall asleep and avoid the accident before it happens!!
Think outside to square on how to save the 450 people we lose every year as ticketing has never worked and never will, look at the stats!!!
- James
Speeding has nothing to do with it at all. The problem actually lies in the inability to stop. How about we teach people good driving skills, such that they can make educated decisions about how close their car is to physical limits. This means that conditions (either road or driver) are assessed with an educated mindset, and not just turning the wheel and hoping for the best. I guess the government has never heard of 'root cause analysis'.
- Hayden
I think the bigger issue related to the fact of Police revenue collecting is the positioning of speed cameras. These vehicles are more often blatantly located in zones of low crash rates but with a high number of vehicles travelling at higher than average speeds, although most not unsafely. Clearly this is not for "saving lives" in "Black spot" areas but for revenue collecting. Two such areas are both situated on the Northern motorway, on downhill stretches where the traffic flows freely. It's a good bet that come a long weekend, there will be several speed camera vans parked along the motorway flashing traffic leaving Auckland and then later on the other side for returning holiday makers. Surely they would be better situated further North in the high crash areas nearer Warkworth and Wellsford?
- Malc
If the police are serious about road safety then the emphasis should be in instruction and education. If I have made a genuine error, a warning after establishing this should be enough (and note it in a central database). Subsequent errors are then repeats, and should be fined. If you fine someone for an honest mistake, well I know any warning associated with it will have less impact, and any desire to be co-operative in the future will be reduced. If it's a fair cop so to speak, most people know and accept it. When it's unfair, people also know it.
- Brent
I have another question: Should the New Zealand Police Force be renamed the 'New Zealand Road Tax Collectors'? And if so, the next time my house is burgled, should I bother to call the NZRTC or will their Revenue Officers be too busy with other more important business?
- Lee Cook
Speeders need to be slowed down, there can be no argument against that. However, police need to realise that the people they are paid to serve and protect, their fellow citizens, are getting sick and tired of being victimised, and stop playing with words. A "production target" is a quota any way you look at it.
- Ken
Obviously the PM and the Police think we're all idiots. Of course there are quotas - they try and cloud the issue by saying it reduces the road toll, which is meant to make us feel bad. Tickets are another revenue grabbing idea. Wait and see - it will be all dusted under the carpet and the quotas will continue!
- R Field
Vehicle accidents happen almost always solely because of human stupidity. Just drive within the speed limit and adjust to the road conditions, how difficult can it be? Some other points to consider:
Why on Earth do the police allow people to go 10km/h over the speed limit? The effective limit just becomes 10km/h higher. If you hit someone with 60km/h instead of 50km/h they have a 40 per cent higher risk of dying from the impact...
Why is it not compulsory to have headlights on at all times? When it was introduced in Scandinavia some 15 years ago the road toll dropped 30 per cent almost over night.
Why can't people use their indicator lights? I'll say that only some 25 per cent of people actually indicate when they should - and in roundabouts they just seem to be totally confused. Come on, it's not difficult, don't they know where the indicator switch is in their cars?
Oh and then there's braking distance, another apparent confusion for many Kiwis. I've been crashed from behind twice in 3 years, and my wife once.
And finally - merging, why is it difficult to understand that the first car goes first? Who do some people just feel an urge to squeeze in front of you in the last second? Or why do some people come onto the motorway with 60km/h when they know that the traffic they are about to merge into goes 100km/h?
- Rolf
I have no problem with police issuing speeding tickets to those who deserve it. I do have a problem however if police are using a quota system. The idea of speeding tickets is to educate people and hopefully stop them from speeding. If this works and no-one does actually speed then the quota system seems pretty useless. I think the revenue gained from traffic infringements should be put into driver education. Not just normal driving conditions but how to control the car in a skid, what to do if your brakes fail how to corner properly etc. There are too many incompetent drivers on the road getting away with close calls and near misses. Maybe the money would be better used trying to educate these people than going into the governments pockets!
- P.J.
Number of police I've seen working in pairs (as opposed to alone): zero
Number of policemen on foot patrolling Queen St on a Saturday night: zero
Number of policemen I've seen on foot in busy Auckland night spots (K road, Ponsonby, Viaduct): zero
Time taken to attend my parents burgled house: 3 days
Time taken to write me a ticket for going through a pedestrian crossing on my bicycle: 7 minutes
NZ Police...what are their motives?
- Erika Whittome
Leave traffic control to Traffic Police/Highway Patrol. General police should be left to focus on controlling real crime. In terms of issuing speeding traffic officers should use common sense discretion as to whether a speeding offence took place i.e. overtaking a slow moving car on the open road at 115 km/h should not be an offence!
- Steve van Son
When the PM's motorcade can abuse their privilege by travelling at an alleged 180kph in order to get to the kick-off of a rugby match in time, then it is no wonder that the public are miffed by Police memos outlining speeding infringment quotas. No doubt the PM will once again claim to have her head down in the back-seat reading, rather than admit to the Nation her indiscretion by her lack of action. One law for all in this country? Hardly.
- Ian
The problem with speed limit enforcement is that it is designed to be a brain-dead rule that applies in all circumstances. There are people like Kelly and Andrew who don't mind being treated as a zombie but there are also a lot of people who do mind, who rebel, and who don't see why they should be treated as criminals if they drive perfectly safely. If Parliament gives cops stupid laws to enforce it can't complain if they enforce them stupidly. Some inevitably will and do. The law should admit as a valid defence evidence brought to show a driver was driving perfectly safely in the circumstances - which would obviously include the condition of road, car, driver, weather and traffic. That would force both drivers and cops to focus on the real issue - safety.
- Alan Wilkinson
I can't see what all the fuss is about. If no one was speeding, then the police wouldn't be able to give anyone a ticket. I will sit at about 105 to 108 on the open road, knowing full well that if I go over 110 and am detected then I probably will get a ticket. That's the risk I take. The risk I don't want to take is to share the road either with some prat who thinks it is his God given right to drive at any speed he wants to or with someone who isn't paying enough attention to their driving to be aware of their speed. If you get a ticket, you were breaking the law, get over it, stop trying to blame someone else for your mistake.
- Martyn Napier
I am 24 years old, male, and live in Auckland, a recipe for speeding if you ask most people and yes I admit to the odd time. But the issue about "Quotas" has been focused on, when its not the issue. The issue is speed, regardless of people who claim it is not, and the fact that speeding is against the law. There is no ifs, buts or maybes. No grey areas for people to debate. If the police are targeting people in realation to speed, how is this any different to them targeting people for drink driving. No one complains when police do a drink driving blitz to get them off the road yet there are more people speeding than drink driving and we somehow think thats okay. I think an attitude change in the way we drive and think about speed is needed, and that 11 kms over the speed limit is not unfair, it's unsafe. Instead of focusing on the people trying to keep us safe, focus on the people making it unsafe for the rest of us!
- Bryce
My advice to people you don't like the blatant ticking for revenue, is to defend your case in court each and every time you get a ticket. Then you can have your say about the stupidity on straight or wide roads etc. You will probably not get off, but if everyone did this, the courts would become so blocked that cases would not be heard for years and maybe politicians would get the message.
- Jeremy Wynne-Jones
The speed limit is set by legislation and if a driver goes over that they are breaking the law and deserve a ticket. If you don't speed you don't get a ticket. Simple eh? I wish drivers would stop thinking they should be above the law. If, in the course of doing their duty, the police are earning revenue then good on them for that, as I said, if nobody exceeded the speed limit there would be no tickets and no revenue collecting. I wish the public, the media, the smart lawyers etc would get in behind the police for a change instead of attacking them, and help them do their difficult unenvious job.
- Colin Munro
The "Police" as a national body, do not have a quota system. What you do have is ineffectual managers, like any other business, who believe that they can measure effectiveness of their staff in areas by how many tickets are produced. You also get individual officers who would rather cruise through life, like any work environment, and handing out tickets is easy money (salary). Andrew was partly right about funding, but half the Police traffic vote comes from local bodies as it did in the time of the MOT, councils expect return on their investment and that is why the Police timesheets are designed to capture traffic "hours of work". I only wonder why Police units such as Wharf Police (Lady Elizabeth etc) are required to also issue traffic tickets and return traffic "hours"?
- Paul
Personally I'm not a fan of getting speeding tickets but I know there are a lot of irresponsible drivers out there who need to be slowed down. I see both sides of the argument but would definitely stick with the side of issuing tickets as it does slow down the general traffic speed.
- Rachel
Yes, but I don't think this is the entire problem. Because it is obvious that the police need to get a quota of tickets, they then try and invent excuses for writing tickets. We had a ticket written for failing to stop at a stop sign. Even though our car had come to a complete stop and the police vehicle was really too far away to know for sure whether the car stopped, he wrote us a ticket. Unfortunately you can argue that you have done nothing wrong, but who is going to believe you. If the police didn't have to get a quota they would be more focused on only stopping people for genuine reasons and not so that they meet the quota. This would free the police to do the job that they are paid to do and also improve the public perception of the police instead of the feeling that the are only there to for revenue gathering.
- Tania Langford
What's the problem? Drive within the speed limit. The cops cannot invent your speed. (Sounds like the Nats condone breaking the law...). They must believe the cameras and hawks work or they would have abolished them when they were in office.
- Tim Parish
It seems the objective is that a great deal of the "police" manpower is directed to "revenue earning" to the detriment of fulfilling other "responsibilities". Is this not institutionalised corruption?
- Mike McKay
We had a classic instance in Wellington the other day... My wife received an $80 speeding camera fine from a roadside vehicle for doing 111Km/hr in a 100Km/hr zone on a four lane motorway! This has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with raising revenue. It's just another tax on burden on the nations drivers.
- Ed
Good on the police for enforcing the law. If members of the public are operating machinery (motor vehicles) outside the specifications society mandated (Speed limits), then they should be accountable. If the speed limits are wrong, then get them changed through the electoral process.
- John Hedley
Of course the Police should be able to issue speeding tickets! If you have a problem with it, then obey the law and adhere to the speed limit! I can't believe that people are upset that the Police are doing their job and enforing the law. No one would have a problem if there was a "Find a killer" quota, so consider issuing speeding tickets as a pre-emptive strike on potential killers. Speed kills.
- Jess
If this is the case, I think police should not have any right to give out any tickets. All the speed tickets and traffic lights ticket should be issued out by the automated camera, which is controlled by a private [recognised] company. Police should be only allowed to give a ticket if the driver is underaged, without driving permit and drink drivers.
- Jay
The easiest way to beat speed cameras is to keep to the speed limit. That said I was myself caught when I thought that I was on a highly publicised addition to the Waipuna motorway - four lanes, few adjacent buildings but 30kph limit.
- Rehari Tere
Yes, I do think that Police should be able to issue speeding tickets. We all know that speed kills!
- Deborah Sims
I spent three years researching the local and international literature and data with regard to the efficacy of speed cameras in reducing road trauma. There is no evidence that they are more effective than conventional road policing methods. The reduction in the road toll over the last 15 years can be attributed entirely to three things. These include dramatic improvements in the safety of the vehicle fleet, road engineering and seatbelt wearing. Speed cameras were abandoned early this decade in British Columbia and their road toll has continued to decline.
- Dr Andrew Montgomery
Speeding tickets are not the problem. Speeding vehicles are. Drivers who speed especially in lower speed zones should have mandatory loss of licence from moment of event for 28 day minimums. It is easier safer and more economical to drive 5km below speed limit than to follow current practice of staying ONLY 10% above speed limit which seems to be the norm.
- Bryan Lewis
Remove the quotas (currently set at 3 per hour), put ticketing back in the hands of Traffic cops/highway patrol and leave the option open to general police. It's time the government stopped lying about the quota system, most people know a police man/woman through a friend of a friend (etc etc), so we all KNOW there is a quota system.
- Nigel.Wade
The police deny the ticket quota system despite continual evidence that they do actively pursue it. This leaked memo is only the latest example of this revenue gathering philosophy. If the policy was sound and was in the best interests of the public the correspondence wouldn't have been leaked by their own obviously disillusioned staff. A visual presence in black spot areas serves the public far better than covert ticketing in areas of high volume and safe open roads. Police resources are stretched to the limit and by giving ticketing such priority, protecting the public and solving real crime is being neglected. The police are on a hiding to nothing over the public's perception of their actions and if they want continued support from the people they are supposed serve, a reassessment of priorities is needed.
- Robin
How much manpower, resource and time does it take to have police officers out on the roads waiting to catch speeding offenders? Make no mistake, I don't condone any form of bad road driving, especially speeders and drink drivers. However, if the situation was really that of safety, why on earth can't we put up a few more fixed speed cameras? I drive down State Highway 16 every morning and every weekend and about every second day there's an unmarked police van with a speed camera. On other days, is a marked police vehicle with a radar. If not for having to sit there mimicking a Buddhist statue, I'm sure there are more pressing matters at hand such as 'tinny' houses. Down my lane in West Auckland, is a well established tinny house that the police can't seem to eliminate. Equip the police and get them doing the right jobs I say, if not give them blue jackets like Auckland traffic wardens and a ticket printer. Oh do excuse me, I can see Mrs. Clark is already on her way to doing that.
- v.v.
Drivers exceeding speed limits are a danger on our roads and should be fined. Quota or no quota, if you break the law, you have no argument!
- Evarist
I can understand cops trying to snap up speeders around schools and dangerous strecthes of roads, but not for Jo Bloggs cruising down the motorway a little quicker than stipulated, cops are just another pawn in the Helen/Cullen tax collector game of chess.
- Brendan
Of course Police officers should be allowed to issue tickets for dangerous driving which may include exceeding the speed limit. However I would ask this question. Should today's 'average' motorist be ticketed for exceeding the speed limit by say 10kph when the vehicle they are driving can stop in a much shorter distance than that of a vehicle would of been able to when doing the speed limit at the time that these limits were set? Why haven't the limits been updated as the vehicle that we drive today have?
- David
I think the argument is that police are ticketing people doing 15km over the limit on roads where there is clear view and are in good condition. Fine if they targeted speedsters going 120km or more in a 100km zone or 80km plus in a 50km zone. They are not, I repeat not ticketing to save lives (as they would have us believe) as the areas they choose to place themselves are seldom the truly dangerous streches of road where careful adherence to the speed limit is a matter of life and death.
- Karen
I have no issue with the police having quotas or using speeding tickets as a means to gain revenue - at the end of the day the speed limit is what it is, if you speed and get ticketed you have no one to blame but yourself - blaming police quota's is simply trying to shift the blame... Further to this, aren't we constantly hearing the police are underfunded and subsequently unable to offer the service we require of them - for those who speed and get ticketed, thankyou for your contribution to solving the funding problem.
- Mike Lockyer
Does anyone actually believe that the government doesn't encourage a quota system for ticketing? That's right up there with the tooth fairy. This certainly isn't one for the conspiracy theorists…it is a simple matter of easy, significant, & convenient revenue wrapped in a thin layer of social responsibility to give it respectability.. for shame.
- Luke Linnell
I certainly believe that the comments from the senior police office on National Radio this morning point to confirming my longheld belief that NZ is rapidly becoming a police state. I am not convinced, however, that a separate traffic force wouldn't have the same ideas. I am an older citizen and I remember the attitudes of traffic cops towards drivers. I wouldn't like to see that return. A separate traffic force would also require separate funding, thus leading to quotas??? I am of two minds - one says that police are to catch criminals such as burglars, rapists, etc; the other says that car drivers who break the law are also criminals by definition.
- Chris
Of course the police should be able to issue speeding tickets but you are missing (or muddying) the whole issue. It is about quota systems and revenue gathering. Neither is appropriate! Police cars crusing straight pieces of road handing out speeding tickets to cars doing 111km/h - this is revenue gathering. Road safety is an important issue but we are becoming so brain washed that speed is the problem. It isn't - the problem is inappropriate speed for the circumstances (eg. road conditions.) We now have police handing out tickets at the bottoms of hills where cars have naturally gained momentum. People that are watching their speedos to ensure they don't creep over the speed limit are not watching the driving environment they are in - what's more important? The approach of the police and government is symptomatic of the way things are now done in this country - take the easy or soft approach instead of really tackling the problem - the conditions of our roads and driver training.
- David
I am a current serving Police Officer and I can assure the Public that i do not know of a "Quota" system whatsoever. I was always instructed many years ago when graduating from College that ACC pays the Police a large sum of money to police the roads and reduce road trauma. As in this world, no-one gets nothing for nothing, Police have a measurable figure in which to guide ACC on how the money is being spent. Obviously the Road Toll is the king of measures, but lets not forget that for everyone killed on the roads, there are about 10 people injured and that those people cost the taxpayers a very very large sum of money in hospitals, rehabilitation and ACC. Studies have shown that for every 1km/hr reduction in average speed, that the percentage of injuries classed as "serious" as remarkably reduced. In layman's terms, driving at the speed limit statistically will reduce any injury you get, and may prevent the crash in totality. In my recent years, I have seen a major drop in driving standards in New Zealand, orange now means go at traffic lights and you only have to stop if it's been red for more than 2 or 3 seconds, people indicate after completing a lane change, no-one stops to let people in any more, and speeding is given as the norm if you are late for work. This country has an infection of poor driving, and for people to complain about speeding when they actually were seems absurd, how about some self-evaulation before knocking hard working folks who only serve to protect.
- Andrew
If there are set guidelines as to the driving speeds (relative to the limit for the zone) at which officers can issue speeding tickets, then their internal organisation doesn't bother me. If I don't speed, I won't be ticketed, so why should it?
- Grant
The attitude this government and the police force has to motorists is a disgrace. There are clearly qoutas to be met and the amount of police resource dedicated to this is disgusting. There are also "hit lists" of motorists the police wish to ticket, they will deny that too I'm sure, when they should be focussing on other crimes that have a greater impact on society. If only assaults, drugs and burglaries were given such high priority. The New Zealand public have no respect for the force as they do not fight "crime". They raise revenue and the only visibility most people have of them is on the roads.
- Mr D
Police should not issue tickets full stop. I knew of one police officer who quit as they had joined to fight crime and were instructed they must instead spend two days a week issuing speeding tickets. Restart the separate traffic dept so people who want to issue tickets can join them. Police can then solely fight crime and boy do we need that urgently. Sole focus is the answer!
- Murray Hunter
In the course of company work and private use I average around 40,000kms per year. I have no problem with speeding tickets. Don't speed and you won't get a ticket. The Herald publishes articles that show a link between speed and fatal accidents, yet somehow if the Police help reduce deaths on the roads by targeting speeding (quota or not) some politicians and papers castigate them for this. Let's hope speeding fines do help fill the government coffers. Perhaps there is a change some of that might go to our under funded hospitals who are helping the victims of speeding drivers
- Kelly Keogh
No quotas - yeah, right!!
- Mike
