Horomia: We all have rights

By AUDREY YOUNG and RUTH BERRY

What are your constituents, family and friends saying about [National leader] Don Brash's Orewa speech?

There is a fair bit of anxiety around. It has caused a fair bit of divisiveness amongst the people. Certainly people are generally not happy about it.

Do Maori have special rights?

Special rights have stood the test of time. They are the tangata whenua, the first peoples of this nation. In the sense of a lot of their cultural and spiritual beliefs, those rights are as special as Catholics or Scots or Welsh people in this country. Special ... can mean a whole host of things.

What is being misunderstood in the debate?

There is a thing that happens with demographic adjustment after 200 years and we are right in the middle of that right now. It's about Maori at times being misinformed or unable to interpret or make the best of opportunities that are there. It is about uninformed Pakeha who have not, for whatever reason ... had much opportunity to understand Maori better.

What does being a New Zealander mean to you?

It means being a Maori, because that's what I was born as, but understanding all those great things that bring this nation together. If we are serious about nationhood, then we certainly have to be better informed in a host of different ways. It also means that I have a right to live in this country alongside anybody else who has the same right.

Has the Government moved too far ahead of middle New Zealand on Treaty of Waitangi issues?

I believe that has been there always in the sense of Dr Brash's planned political strategy. It has just come to the surface a lot more than it ever was before. Everybody, including Maori and Pakeha, has to have a good look in the mirror and if we are to be serious about nationhood then we have to work out how we can compromise, how we can get on better together.

Why do we need references to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi in legislation?

The treaty is the founding document in this country. One of the key premises of the treaty is that there are two partners to it. So in any development we should at least recognise that. Whether that should be everywhere in my own mind, and in a lot of Maori people's hearts anyway, it recognises the licence that created the partnership between two peoples of this country - one the coloniser, the other the first-nation's people.

What does the principle of partnership mean to you?

It means getting on for the benefit of your whanau with whomever else and making sure that the partnership is real. A lot of Maori aren't on the fringe ranting and raving, a lot of Maori are getting on with their whanau, are accelerating themselves into economic opportunities and also better educating themselves. Partnership is about trying to create real opportunities and trying to position ourselves to create a better life. That's what I hope my role is - it's about trying to create a better lot for our people.

What do you think about Marlborough Girls College banning the display of crucifixes but allowing greenstone and bone pendants that Dr Brash highlighted?

I don't know. It's a bit of a reverse from the early days in the sense of what the missionaries spent a lot of time delivering to our people. I don't have an opinion. It's something the board of trustees of the Marlborough girls school has to sort out.

Why do we need Te Puni Kokiri (the Ministry of Maori Development)?

It's no different from the reason we needed the Department of Internal Affairs when this country was settled. There are a whole lot of needs out there and Te Puni Kokiri is a great conduit. It has gone through a host of changes and there is a special need. If there were clear guarantees that mainstream ministries - and past history has not been good - deliver and are serious about bottom-up development, I'd be reasonable about leaving it elsewhere. But at the moment Te Puni Kokiri has a very important and integral part in the pathway forward.

Do you believe Pakeha can have as deep an attachment to the foreshore as Maori?

I believe so. I am more than certain after a period of time, but there are cultural differences.

Pakeha know the warmth of the beach, of walking along on moonlit nights and swimming in the sea. That's no different to Maori. But there are other further added attachments that Maori have, like a lot of their people are buried on the foreshore in unmarked graves, there are fishing grounds that are still practised and understood, there are people who take the pito, the umbilical cord, and put it down by the sea. There are a whole host of those things. A lot of our old karakia, pre the missionaries, were about the gods of the sea. That is an attachment for Maori. I'm sure Pakeha enjoy the beach: they like taking the barbie down and swimming and snorkelling and diving. That's not a thing I like at the beach because the kai gets raided.

How would you describe race relations at present?

They are reasonably tense. But I have a firm belief that the average New Zealander is fair minded. We should always remember that no majority has the right to usurp or control the minority just because of numbers. The tensions are not new but they have not been as highlighted as this before.

Maori, activists have been accused of misrepresenting the voice of Maori. What do you think?

We went to Waitangi. Not once did those scurrilous press people show anything or talk about what was going on above the top field. Then the next day I came to Wellington and there were 10,000 Maori there and I had a good time. There would barely have been 50 to 60 protesters at Waitangi. I think the time has come for the screaming unendowed academics. Time's up. A lot of those people in my mind have lived off, and still are, the backs of a lot of the crises built around our people and been very, very well paid.

That's not a reasoning against the right of protest. There are things in this country that I want to highlight even at Waitangi - the stalls, the sports.

Do you think the press will go there? Not on your nelly? Do you think they go to the university awards where our people are going? Not on your nelly. Do you think they want to all jump up and do the haka when the All Blacks play? We shouldn't be a nation that just gets excited by the haka before an All Black test. We should all own the Maori culture. The browning is coming coupled with Pacific Islands people. That is not something to be feared. It is to be embraced and enhanced.

Herald Feature: Sharing a Country