Have the shock drink drive TV ads had their day?

A blitz netted 125 drink drivers in central Auckland at the weekend, many more worried about the inconvenience to their evening rather than the consequences of what could have happened if they had caused an accident while drink-driving.

Police say the attitude is too common with many of the people charged with drink-driving. Have the shock drink drive TV ads had their day?

Here is an earlier selection of Your Views:

Survive2Drive Poneke
My questions for the Minister of Police are:
What's exactly hampering Police from charging more people before they escalate to kill or become self victims under today's Land Transport Act provisions? How will the new law be able to discourage ongoing recidivism by drug drivers? Myths about drug driving being safe or at least less wicked than drink driving abound, so what does the Government propose to redress this sad situation? How expert are cops trained in field tests and how can we have faith their skills are maintained? What help will be available to Maori for dealing with drug problems if we end up over represented among the drug drivers being removed from the road?

Drugskill
Will the new demerit system or set fines also apply to people convicted of drug impaired driving, and if so re demerits how many demerits will it be worth? Given that benzodiazepine abuse is regarded as in the top three crash drugs (with drink and pot)will the legislation enable prosecution of benzo misusers? In what situations is this new legislation strengthening the power of Police to detect drug impaired drivers likely to be applied? Do Police have any safety concerns about having to ask people whose mentality may be fried and volatile e.g. P users, to spend a sustained time doing roadside field tests to assess for impaired driving? And if so how will these concerns be addressed without compromising maintenance of the law?

Bob Radley
1. Why don't we do saliva drug tests before subjecting drivers to field tests that on some occasions could just be a big waste of everyone's time, and perhaps also fail to detect too many drug users?
2. Will a conviction count on top of any recent drink driving ones held for the purposes of the three strike and out legislation?
3. When will Police start showing they are serious about drug driving by getting their conviction rate up sufficient for the people causing sixteen per cent of our fatal crashes per Police to understand it's not acceptable.
Evidence provided here: www.police.govt.nz/service/drugs/faq.html

Christine (Auckland)
* If children are found in vehicles of dangerous druggy drivers, what will be done to ensure their future safety?
* Given that the main risk group are young males, can you give any assurance that seniors will not be unnecessarily put through roadside drug tests?
* Will penalties for drugged driving be progressive as for drink driving, given that this has shown to be most effective in stopping recidivism?

Wanted (Taumaranui)
You know your blood hounds pretend to sniff out dope just before an MDA search. What's to stop this tactic just before a field test eh? DNA fingerprinting must be why you want to introduce this travesty of blood testing us - am I right or wrong? Marijuana only effects driving slightly for a couple of hours. So how can it work fair to all if blood tests show the for a month, and cop lies about your redeyes? Isn't this just another racist law from drug warriors? Just like how your mates are putting dak into a higher class in the UK.

Cheekymonkey
That's just not fair, I have a bung eye and can t walk a straight line anyway. Tell me this can drugs help me walk straight again? And what about people in wheelchairs, how do we test them.

Mark
Zero tolerance is what we need. I myself have been done for DUI and believe me I am not proud. Never again. It was very scary standing in court and hearing the Judge say, "if you killed or injured somebody you would be going to prison today". And to DUI Diabetic, what would you say if some drunk driver killed your loved one while driving? I don't care if your diabetes makes it difficult for you. That's just an excuse and you know it. There is no justifiable reason for drink driving. If anyone is caught drink driving then they should spend a few days in the slammer and help in the morgue.

Russ (WGTN)
Any person who chooses to drink and drive will weigh up 2 options:
1) The chance of being caught.
2) The consequences of being caught.
If either of these is low then the likelihood of the crime taking place is high.
Either increase the chances of being caught or make the consequences of the crime so harsh the would be offender will think twice. A death by drink driving is effectively manslaughter. The punishment should be the same.

Chat
Hmmm.. the person considering a sample size of 125 out of 1.3M is sure had too much to drink, then drove home drunk and was still drunk at the time writing it and probably trying hard to justify why they drove home drunk. Maybe should've looked to see how many drivers were stopped for testing out of which 125 were drunk, not take the whole population of Auckland into account - I would like to think out of that 1.3M anyone under 15 is not allowed to drive and anyone under 18 is not suppose to legally drink. Until these idiots who drink and drive stops making excuses and stop trying so hard to justify their behaviour, nothing will help and lots of innocent people will have to pay dearly.

Andrew
I don't think shock TV ads ever had their day. It is a proven fact that shock tactics don't change people's behaviour. Low key suggestive and educational approaches have a much greater effect because they are received with a more open mind.

Aaron (Birkenhead)
Tackling and reducing incidence of drink driving, like all acts that are seen as anti-social, requires a person's extended group to vocally and emotionally punish him for his behaviour. A person victimised by his own social group will soon change behaviour to meet once more with the accepted standards of the group and "fit in". This is almost impossible in a country where few people yet see drink-driving as anti-social therefore the norm and acceptable within the group. In fact, getting away with it is seen as a badge of honour and an "I beat the system" mentality is celebrated and rife. It shows a distinct lack of care for fellow citizens and a childlike approach to what is an adult issue. Repeatedly kiwis fail to display themselves as able to make decisions that show them to be adults. Drink-driving is one of many that require kiwis to act as adults and, I suspect this will be the case for a long time until acceptable behaviour is recognised and rewarded. In other words, support your mate next time he tells the idiot at the bar to get a cab home-and everyone else watching, make sure you chime in with your support-and get a cab home as well!
To "Well, well, well": Talking of 125 people from a population of 1.3m is a poor discussion of statistics. This only stands if all 1.3m people drove through the checkpoint and were tested. Your true sample is 125 people versus the number of people who drove through the checkpoints. In previous Herald articles on drink-drive blitzes where sample and offender numbers were discussed, the incidence rate was anywhere from 1 in 70 to 1 in 100. Sorry "Well, well, well", but these are appalling levels.

Ivan Robins
This country has many good drivers, generally good roads and a good police force. What is dangerously lacking is effective driver management. The system we have is worse than useless because our bad drivers quickly learn that they only have to pay fines if they want to and that it doesn't matter how many times they commit the same offence. We could easily copy the way that other countries do things such as not allowing children to drive cars, compulsory insurance, driver licensing to international standard, licence endorsement for speed camera offences etc etc, but we won't, because we don't have anyone who could make such decisions without first having to consult with an Insurance company or an AA employee who would promptly talk them out of such a silly idea. Perhaps our first step should be to identify the person ultimately responsible for safety on our roads and to closely report each week on the actions or inactions that are being taken by that person to bring New Zealand road safety up to international standards.

Percentage (Wellington)
Positive reinforcement is a better motivator than fear and loathing. "98.8 per cent of drivers found sober in checkpoint blitz" would be a refreshing change.

Mel (Auckland)
Diabetic DUI is just another example of the self-justifying, 'I'm not the problem, everyone else is the problem' attitude that leads to people driving drunk. Sweetie, if you were over the limit, then you were impaired, whether you like to believe it or not. Frankly, I'm not sure I would be driving after two glasses of wine and a liqueur dessert, and I don't even have diabetes. Tests show that impairment levels begin at that first sip of alcohol - all our legal limits represent are supposedly 'acceptable' levels of impairment. As for the suggestion that it should be okay for drivers over the limit to drive home if they live nearby - because accidents never happen close to home, right? Oh no, wait. More than half of car accidents occur within 8km of home. Brilliant idea.

Amy
I am a 20-something year old female and love socialising. Living so far out of the city doesn't make a taxi fare an attractive option when it's in excess of $40. Nor do I appreciate the thieving or ogling dodgy taxi drivers that almost revel in the delight of taking an intoxicated young female home. That's why I don't catch cabs. And buses? They don't exist at that time, nor do they go out to where I live. So it almost seems that unless you know a geek or someone with kidney/liver problems that is willing to be your sober driver and drop you home at 4am when you're trolleyed, then there is little choice than to stay at home and not go out, find a geek, risk getting harrassed/burgled/raped by a taxi driver or drink and drive.
Solution: better the public transport system, make public transport including taxis cheaper and if you say "don't drink and drive" then there should be a zero blood alcohol limit, therefore people wont be tempted to risk having one or two or three before getting behind the wheel. If we know that no alcohol is tolerated then we're less likely to risk it. Oh, and the ads don't work. Waste of our money! Shocking people doesn't work any more.

Live Life
A absolute zero tolerance to drink driving or at very least the '3 strikes and you are out' policy - far too many people are getting caught for there 3rd, 4th or more drink driving offence. Hit them hard in the pocket with a stiff fine for a first offence and if that don't work take the car to the crusher and take there licence off them for a long time. No exceptions or lame excuses. Our present laws are a joke it's no wonder people think they can get away with it. We need to send a serious message that drink driving is no longer socially acceptable.

Concerned mum
There should be a complete ban on alcohol for any driver who does not have a full licence. How about using pub charity money gained from poker machines to subsidise pub vehicles to give patrons a lift to and from home. If there were more than 1 licensed premises in a particular area they could all get together to subsidise the vehicle and driver costs. If people are going to make money from selling liquor then they need to take some responsibility and make it easy for people to stay within the laws. Maybe free meals for designated drivers etc providing access to transport.

Martini
People shouldn't drink and drive but how many innocent people did the police stop. If you are driving badly OK but they shouldn't stop people who are doing nothing wrong. Why not just set up check points out side pub car parks I wonder.

Claire Auckland
"If you drink and drive you are a bloody idiot" To me that is 1 drink or many. I find it sad that the message just doesn't get through. Alcohol causes most of the violence and accidents each and every day and sadly people can't do without it.
What will it take?

John
The graphic adverts are unlikely to affect the repeat drink driver. They know there are few real consequences. They get a fine they have no intention of paying and know won't be chased. In court they loose their driving licence and then drive home. Eventually they might get PD (community sentence hours) which they will do some of occasionally. They will drive to PD in the same car they drove drunk in. Maybe after 5 or 6 offences they will be threatened with prison, but a good argument from a lawyer and a letter from their employer telling the judge how they are the best worker in the universe, will see them driving home via the pub.

UK
When I visit my family in New Zealand I fear for their safety on the roads. I have not researched it, but the accident rate for the population is way beyond that in the UK. I'm unsure why a nation of so few people accepts such a toll. I have just read an account of a drunken driver (more than twice the limit) who killed his passenger - 3 years detention and 4 years driving ban. At the same time I have read of a nineteen-year-old girl in the UK who killed someone in an accident whilst texting - 4 years detention and 5 years ban. Perhaps this highlights the difference in thinking.

Arda van Kuyk
Personally, I think there should be zero limit and zero tolerance for drunks. What is fine for one person is not okay for another. Use me for example, one glass of wine is enough to make me feel pickled and there is no way I would then go behind the wheel. Totally dependant on body weight and many other factors. Make it zero and then there is no confusion.

Jeff H
In the past three years I've been stopped coming back from the beach at four small scale Fishery Officer checkpoints but have never been stopped by Police in that time. The number of drivers caught over the limit in the infrequent blitzes indicates "Anytime - anywhere" is a bit of a joke. Perhaps the Police should consider more frequent smaller 4-6 officer checkpoints allowing the bulk of the traffic through. Maybe some drivers would slip through but the missed heart beats would be a wake up for the next time they consider driving having had a few too many.

Alan Wilkinson
At least the proposed drug-driving checks actually test motor-skill performance directly although they still don't test attitude and irresponsibility which I suspect are most causal of "accidents". You can presume all kinds of things, and obviously many people do, without evidence and actually without caring whether there is any evidence or how strong that evidence is. Measuring blood alcohol tells you vaguely what a person has drunk and vaguely what their capabilities and risks are, but it is not an exact relationship in either case. I see many drivers on the roads who are seriously incompetent when sober and no evidence that they are less risk than some who drink and drive responsibly. This view will produce screams of rage from the politically-correct self-righteous. That doesn't make their opinions right, merely loud.

Seen the effects
Having come across more than my fair share of crashes (I'm not an ambo or other emergency services, but live in a rural area and clock a lot of km) I have seen more death and mutilation than I care to. I frequently flashback to the dead teen driver who reeked of alcohol - worth no more than a cursory check before moving on to the other victims who were a higher priority. Send drink drivers out with Ambos on a Friday night, or spend a day in A&E.
Second offence? Confiscate and sell their cars - don't just give it back after a month. Reading the complacency exhibited by these idiots in this article brought back a lot of anger - and very bad memories.

Deborah
The person who says that 125 people out of 1.3 million is a 'small' sample size is obviously not the victim of a drunk driver. Perhaps they will change their mind when a loved one is killed or injured by someone who has had 'a few drinks' and decides to drive. It amazes me that people can be so self-centred and plain stupid. The death of even one person by a drunk driver is an absolute tragedy and those who think that the Police are out of line need to grow up and get over themselves.

Shame on them
A myriad of options are available to us, so as one person says, why not publish their photoss! Have a list each Monday in the NZH so their mothers, employers and grandparents can see. A serious issue is that it has become so ingrained in NZ psyche that we must be able to blame someone else. People complaining of lack of public transport are just finding another way to avoid taking personal responsibility for their potentially harmful actions. If you can afford to drink you can afford to spend the $10 or $20 or even $50 to get a cab home that will ensure that you are not harming others. Drunk drivers - do what you want to harm yourself but how dare you endanger the lives of me, my family and others in the community. Shame, shame on you.

Rochelle
Start getting hard with drink drivers! I know two people who have recently been nabbed for drink driving. The first has been caught for the first time in April and has really learned a lesson (although he won't actually go to court for it until the end of August - four 1/2 months later). The second is someone who has just been done for the third time (within weeks of being caught the second time), all he received was a 6 month disqualification and a couple of hundred in fines. I'm sure that the first person will receive around the same. What is going on here? If it's such an issue get them into court fast and dealt with severely.

Jase
It's not just the drink driving but the general driving inability of most people on the roads. Add to this the ridiculous driving age limit of 15, the driver still legally being allowed to text whilst driving and the high powered cars and you have a recipe for disaster. The lack of understanding, patience, basic road awareness, poor roads and appalling signage is staggeringly high in NZ and it doesn't seem to be getting any better! I know people who drive without a license or even without the basic road requirements as a WOF and/or Rego. Why? Because it is all too easy. It's time to get tough on road laws in NZ, people are being killed through sheer stupidity and carelessness. Ask yourself just how many drivers do you see either just holding a mobile phone, texting or on a call whilst driving? We need to ban texting now and make mobile phones for drivers a hands free law, have tougher sentencing, up the driving age limit to at least 17, make car insurance compulsory with high premiums for high performance cars, make the driving test tougher and improve public transport to support the public. It's all down to education, attitude and taking responsibility for your own actions. It's also about changing the kiwi perception of driving, which is going to take a long, long time!

Richard
Obviously, a zero tolerance policy is the only way we can truly clean up the streets and make them safe for law abiding citizens. But equally, no politician in the country has the guts to say so, or the dedication to push this through. So what will happen is this - nothing.

Andy
The message and the law is clear "don't drink and drive." I don't like a lot of laws in this country but I accept in some case it's the way it has to be. Catching burglars, taggers and petty criminals doesn't save lives. When was the last time you heard of 300 senseless deaths per year because of burglaries. My kids have the absolute right to be passengers in my car knowing that the vehicle approaching has a sober driver. Don't complain against cost of taxis/public transport as all it takes is one less round to afford a safe way home!

Bjorn
Don't do it again!

The Bear
If Auckland had a decent public transport system, I bet the amount of drunk drivers caught around the city would drop significantly. This is one reason why I stay at home instead of going to pubs and bars in town to drink and socialise. I'm sure this must also make life tough on bar owners, and possibly the reason why there is never any vibe in bars around town.

Andrew (Auckland)
This is of no surprise. In a society where personal responsibility is dismissed in favour of "mitigating circumstances" and "a troubled childhood", where sentences for illegal activity are a joke, is it a really a surprise that citizens ignore the law? The law should mark the boundaries of acceptable behaviour in our society. The repercussions for overstepping those boundaries must be severe.

Gipsy
Instead of setting up these testing sites, perhaps public transport, i.e. night buses could be introduced - they work in places like London and Sydney, and, shock, horror, people do actually use them if they are reasonably priced and go in routes that take them home safely! Why are there no late (early morning) trains or ferries? The responsibility should be on the council/police to organise alternatives.

Booze
I'm not surprised at the idiots getting pulled up and trying to make excuses to get out trouble, I mean if they are intoxicated they will most likely feel invincible - but what I am surprised at, is the fact that they don't realise it's illegal! Come on guys - your breaking the law! Do you go into shops and steal stuff? Break into peoples homes? Rob banks? Probably not, so why are so many people drinking and driving then? Talk about thick!

Andrew Atkin
Yeah, get rid of them - they're extremely condescending. If you want people to change don't treat them like they're little kids that need "attitude programming" - respect their intelligence and just state the facts.

Will (Auckland)
Maybe when a ban on our licence really mean a ban. None of this, "I need my car to go to work" and get an exemption to drive between 8 and 6. If you cannot accept the responsibility to not drink and drive, why should the community have the responsibility to clear up after you? As for the gentleman who suggests that the police are ruining his recreation time, maybe he should spend some time with some victims of drink drive incidents and se why the police spend time blitzing. I have full support for the police in this issue.

Waikato Girl
I think tougher penalties are the best way to change NZ drink drivers. Scaring them obviously doesn't, but in the end, will these people really think about it when they are drunk?

Jim V
Having been in the past been a heavy drinker with no regard to drink drive laws, subsequently losing my licence, I have now been a committed non-drinker for the last 3 years. Does this effect my Friday nights out? No, it does effect my personal life though. I don't wake up with bad headaches, I don't have to worry about what "happened" last night, there are no alcohol induced arguments with loved ones. The laws around drinking driving are very relaxed. I would be very happy if the limit was zero. Last Friday, I witnessed a car with a "loaded" man almost killed a person crossing Queens Street, smash his rear into a parked car, and then lose it into a stop sign (rather humorous postcrash) boozed to the rim. He shouldn't be driving. And in the state his car was when he tried to drive away, I don't think he will be for a little while. Zero tolerance people, those that think that's not suitable, shouldn't be driving!

Diabetic DUI
I've been caught "drink driving". Being a type one diabetic (no, I'm not fat) alcohol affects me far more than the average bear. This particular night, I'd had two glasses of wine, eaten dinner and waited a good two hours and drank water, before driving home.
My faculties weren't impaired. However I was .05 MG over the legal limit. Hardly anything, but being diabetic alcohol obviously takes longer to process. Had I waited a further 30 minutes, I more than likely would have been within the legal limit. My point is that you can't really say all people are the same in terms of drink driving. I know my limits and follow them, however in that case it was a bit of an anomaly (the culprit was later found to be the whisky fired creme brulee). It's a bit of overkill though - people can't enjoy a couple of glasses with a meal then drive home. No wonder people are reluctant to go out to restaurants these days, Have a bit of flexibility. Find out where people live, how far they have to drive. If their home is less than 2 mins away then follow them! Have you ever seen how many police cars are at checkpoints! I've counted 10 once.

Sarah
Perhaps if NZ pulled their finger out and had better public transport this would not be happening so much! In London you can get home on a tube or a night bus for very little. Here you spend a fortune getting anywhere and the people wonder why we won't get out of our cars! NZ is stuck in the dark ages! Come on NZ! Public transport is so expensive and hopeless. It's 2007!

Graeme
Shock TV ads might be useful but only as part of a comprehensive driver education strategy. Excessive emphasis and policing of speed and alcohol has lulled the average driver into a false sense of complacency. We get more compulsory training and education in a year on eliminating tiny Health and Safety risks like a power lead across the office floor than ongoing driver training in a lifetime. So don't let's fret over the road toll - it's a function of Government priorities and the unpopularity of compulsory driver training.

DIC
Speaking as someone who once made the stupid mistake of drinking and then getting behind the wheel I feel we need more advertising as to the effects to everyone that drinking alcohol and then driving can have on people. I learnt a lesson from my first and only drink/driving offence. But there are some out there on NZ roads who think they are invisible to the influences of alcohol. They get caught once, twice, three times or more and still will not learn that lesson "you do not drink alcohol and then drive." I sometimes wonder if the repeat offenders view being caught more than once a joke or a way of gaining "Brownie Points" with their friends/associates. That 46-year-old male who complained when caught at 5.45am was a bloody idiot. It doesn't matter what time of the day you drive, if you drink and then drive you are being irresponsible.

Sid
Increase the penalties so a second offence means you lose your licence for ten years and your car is destroyed. Now that's sorted, please also do a similar story on catching people for other crimes like assault, burglary etc. I'm sure they would be just as unremorseful. Though it's a bit harder for the police to catch these people and these days it sometimes seems like they don't even try.

Michael
Like the comments of the man in the article, drink drivers have no idea what they impose on other sound drivers and public. Just because you "don't drive a certain distance" won't bring back the mother of three that you killed as she came home from work in the morning, as you were too drunk to see her. Get a grip you people. It's plain and simple. I find it amazing how many people just don't get it. I could teach "Don't Drink and Drive" to monkeys, and yet, here we are with so called citizens (and a lawyer) trying to pull it off. It turns my stomach.

Jmattx
The result of the recent netting of 125 drink drivers on the weekend does not surprise me. When I moved here from Australia in 2000 I was actually quite shocked at the cavalier attitude that Kiwi's seem to have to drink driving, many in my New Zealand social circle just shrugging when I confronted them with the dangers of drink driving. 'Won't happen to me' that said. The reality is that adverts alone (shocking or not) won't change the underlying Kiwi social fabric that still thinks its okay to drink drive. One thing that I believe changed the situation and turned the tide in Australia, so that people took it more seriously, was the frequency of getting caught, I think more random testing is needed by Police so it really does become - 'Anywhere, anytime'.

Wino
Unbelievable that people of all ages still convince themselves that alcohol doesn't impair their responses - yeah yeah you may be able to drive straight but can you stop? Can you turn your car in a tight cul-de-sac? Are you actually concentrating? Of course not. Drink drivers should have their photos put in the paper then everyone will know what kind of person they really are. Shame on all those who drink and drive, not just