Gun dealer 'upset and stressed' after shooting intruder

Father Raymond Carvell and police officers outside the store after the shooting. Picture / Kenny Rodger

An Auckland gun dealer who yesterday shot an intruder armed with a machete says he is "upset and stressed" about the incident.

Greg Carvell shot a 29-year-old in the abdomen with a handgun when the man burst into his gunshop in Penrose about 10am.

Mr Carvell, who spent most of yesterday with police, said this morning: "I am just upset and stressed and that is all I can really say at this stage."

He said he appreciated the support he had been getting.

Police were continuing investigations at the scene today and had yet to decide if any charges would be laid.

Detective Senior Sergeant Simon Scott said the wounded man - who police said yesterday was 19, but now say is 29 - was still in a stable condition under guard in Auckland City Hospital where he had surgery yesterday.

"We'll be guided by medical experts as to when we can speak to the man to hear his version of yesterday's events," Mr Scott said.

Mr Carvell's father, gunshop owner Raymond Carvell, said his son had no choice but to shoot the man who charged at him with a machete.

"My son was in fear of his life because someone threatened him with a machete and kept coming at him. He acted in self-defence against an armed felon," he said.

"My son has grown up with guns all his life, so he knows the difference between play-acting and when somebody was meaning to kill him.

"Like anyone in this country, he doesn't have to have his head bloody cut off before he does something about it."

A legal expert last night said he would be surprised if police laid charges against Greg Carvell.

Auckland University associate law professor Scott Optican said the law was "very simple".

"You can use force to defend yourself as is reasonable in the circumstances, up to and including deadly force," Mr Optican said.

He did not know all the facts of the case, but would be "very surprised" if charges were laid.

The shooting happened at the Small Arms International in Penrose, which the Carvells co-own.

Police say a 19-year-old entered the gunstore with a machete and was shot with a handgun.

It is not clear if the gun was loaded before the man entered the store.

TV3 cameraman Geoff Mackley arrived at the scene and saw the injured man lying near the entrance of the store.

"He was clutching his chest. It was obvious he had been shot at close range."

Mr Mackley said the injured man tried to get up but was told to "get down, get down".

Raymond Carvell said: "We don't go around shooting people because we want to shoot people, but we have got a right to defend ourselves.

"He kept coming at Greg, and Greg had no alternative but to shoot him."

He said it was not store policy to keep loaded weapons behind the counter.

"We can load a firearm very quickly. That's what we do all day long."

Nearest weapon

Raymond Carvell said he did not know the circumstances behind the gun being produced, but assumed it was the nearest weapon.

"If we had tennis rackets in there, we might have hit him with a tennis racket."

The store was ramraided this year and Raymond Carvell said security had been increased since then.

But only so much could be done to prevent criminals coming in and to protect staff.

"It's about survival and we want to survive. I'm glad the fellow's not dead, but I'm glad it's not my son laying on the floor in the hospital with his guts hanging over."

Other gunstore owners the Herald spoke to said they felt for Greg Carvell and the situation he was faced with yesterday.

But they agreed that loaded firearms should not be easily accessible in a gunstore, nor should they be used for self-defence.

One owner, who did not want to be identified, said he had been in a situation where a person cut a gun from its lock and tried to load it in the store.

"I didn't have time to get a gun, let alone load it."

Another Auckland gunstore owner said: "I know the law. I know what I am and am not allowed to do, and I'm not allowed to have a loaded weapon behind the counter."

If he were in the same situation as Greg Carvell, "I would be backing off very quickly and locking myself into my safe."

The owner said he did feel sorry for the Carvells, who were well known in the industry and were responsible people.

"Greg is very responsible and respected. He must have felt incredibly threatened to do that.

"I'm glad it wasn't me who was put in that position. I feel sorry for Greg - nobody wants to be confronted by that sort of person."

Mr Scott said yesterday: "At the end of the investigation we will make up our minds what happened and who, if anyone, will be criminally culpable."

Mr Optican said police had to exercise judgment and use discretion when laying charges.

"They need to be exercising an independent judgment as to whether the force was reasonable in the circumstances."

New Zealand police tended to lay charges "and let a judge sort it out at a preliminary hearing, or a jury sort it out at trial".

Auckland Council of Civil Liberties president Barry Wilson - a lawyer - said Mr Carvell could argue self-defence.

"The police view has been that you just place the person before the court and let the court decide. I think that's clearly wrong.

"The police have a duty to evaluate the evidence very carefully, and if it appears the person has acted reasonably to protect themselves, then they ought not be put through the trouble, expense and enormous stress of a court process."

* additional reporting Louisa Cleave