"Post-apocalyptic". That's how the Herald's senior political reporter Thomas Coughlan describes the atmosphere at the makeshift protest camp outside Parliament.
"[It's] a bit like Children of Men ... There are horns blaring, music playing, and cars are blocking key streets around Parliament. The Parliament lawn is in a state, as are the gardens and protesters have dug in, setting up waste disposal and kitchens. It's a strange cross between an army camp and a music festival.
"But in the rest of the city - even as close as the other end of Lambton Quay, Wellington is its usual, gorgeous self. You wouldn't know anything was happening."
In a live Q&A with Herald subscribers this afternoon, Coughlan described the challenges faced by MPs, police and locals as protesters spend their eighth day camped out on Parliament's grounds.
Not least amongst the logistical nightmares faced by authorities: where to find a towing company willing to brave the crowd?
Here's a sampling from today's Q&A:
Miles S: Great to hear a perspective from a reporter on the ground. Are the conditions on the ground as supposedly filthy and unhygienic as the PM and police described to the media?
Thomas Coughlan: Yes. I myself haven't been to the bathrooms, but the ground is sodden, the gardens have been wrecked.
To be fair to the protesters, they are doing a decent job of getting waste disposal and other essential infrastructure built, but Parliament's grounds aren't really designed for camping.
Bernie D: Who is paying for and cleaning the portaloos?
TC: The protesters.
Michael M: Would you say that the protest matches NZ's ethnic and age demographic profile? Bryce Edwards copped flak after he said on RNZ that the protesters were mostly poor and brown. I've seen a high proportion of Māori and Pasifika in the live footage, but also plenty of Pākehā. Also plenty of young (not including children) but also plenty of middle aged people too.
TC: Protest changes every day. Honestly hard to give a demographic breakdown, but fair to say a lot of ethnic groups are represented in the crowd. There are Pākehā, Māori, and Pacific people. There may be people from other backgrounds there, but I can't be sure.
John AL: Did this protest start as an "anti-mandate" or "anti-vax" protest? Do you have any idea what proportion of protest represents each faction - and also the "far right" who are there as well?
TC: Officially anti-mandate, but basically everyone there is anti-vax too.
Most people I spoke to did not want to get vaccinated and therefore want the mandates to end because they're having a big impact on their lives.
Of course, the Government isn't keen to do this because the mandates also protect people who did get vaccinated and people who can't get vaccinated.
Miles S: Is there any overt evidence of any so called "right wing extremism"?
TC: There is some evidence, although just how many protesters are extremists is a difficult (maybe impossible) question to answer.
There is a small QAnon presence, identifiable from slogans on vehicles. Brett Power, the man trying to perform a citizens arrest on Andrew Little, probably fits most people's definition of extremist.
Chris P: Would love to know why the police haven't invoked the Covid-19 rules to break up the protest i.e. gathering larger than 25 (no vaccine passes), not wearing masks.
TC: It's fair to say there are a number of laws being broken at Parliament right now (oh the irony). The big question is for the police, who really have to think about how much they're willing to pick a fight with protesters to enforce the law around Parliament. Protesters are dug in, and well resourced, and it's pretty clear they're not likely to clear off without a struggle.
Gary T: Wouldn't best way forward be to remove the vehicles? Actually shifting the people looks undoable especially with kids present. Shifting vehicles would at least open up access norms again. Agree? And surely suggestions PM should talk to the protesters would just encourage them and go nowhere?
TC: Yes, and it looks like we could get to that at some stage, especially as the protesters have made it clear they won't move on themselves.
The difficulty is I'm not sure many towing companies are falling over themselves to drive into the crowd and start taking those vehicles. The police would need to guarantee it could be done safely. Given the tenor of things at the moment, the big fear would be that if people did start to tow vehicles, there's no telling the sort of violent spat it could provoke. Hence the current stalemate.
Dave B: Hi Thomas. Any thoughts on why the police have not at least removed the vehicles that are blocking the roads? Second question. Why haven't the protesters who are camped out at the Victoria Law School been removed, that being private property?
TC: Hi Dave. Last night they tried to have protesters move their vehicles voluntarily (they also negotiated to have bus lanes cleared - the protesters have obliged, meaning bus traffic flows much more freely).
It appears very few have decided to take up that offer to move vehicles last night. To be honest, it's so gridlocked down there, I don't see how many of the protesters could get their cars out even if they wanted to!
Ball is in the court of police now. I don't know what they'll do now their offer has been rebuffed. It would escalate things severely if they decided to tow cars.
Stephen H: How many buildings are unable to be reached by fire engines now, which could before the occupation?
TC: I don't think many buildings are completely inaccessible because side streets are largely unblocked. The most gridlocked part of the protest is the very bottom of Lambton Quay and Bowen St, and about a block of Molesworth St.
Bus lanes are unblocked, so I guess fire trucks could use them.
The problem I suppose would be fire engines might not be able to move quickly, or access buildings from their desired entrance - not ideal if you're in a fire!
Brent M: Why isn't Ardern showing voters respect and talking to them? They may not be protesting in a way that suits us all but they are still Kiwis, still deserve answers and respect. Do you have an opinion on why she is avoiding them and whether she is being damaged politically?
TC: Don't think this will harm her too much.
Prime ministers don't usually come out to respond to protests, even when it's something they agree with. Jacinda Ardern didn't visit the climate strike, despite climate change action being something she strongly supports.
There's also the issue of the threats being made by some people against the prime minister and other MPs, which gives her a very good reason for staying away.
Matt W: Putting everything aside, if people had trespassed to this extent on someone's private property, surely the owner would not rely solely on the efforts of the Police to remove them. There must be some form of negotiation - whether it be from a Government representative or the PM herself? Either that or get the Armed Forces in before they are needed in Europe...
TC: Possibly - that's probably a matter for the Speaker, and he and the protesters don't have much time for each other right now!
Wayne S: Did Mallard break any local council laws or regulations with his water and music response?
TC: Good question - one I've been meaning to ask the council myself.
I checked with our Wellington reporter at the Herald, and she believes this is unlikely, as certain venues like Parliament (and the Botanic Gardens, for instance) are exempt from water restrictions, so that they don't dry out.
I'm not sure whether he broke any noise restriction rules ... I will have to check!
Stephen H: Are they getting fresh water from the diverted sprinklers still or anywhere that could be shut off by Parliament?
TC: I'm almost certain fresh water hasn't been taken from the sprinklers, but they've been turned off now anyway.
Most of their supplies appear to have been trucked in by supporters who arrived over the weekend and on Monday. A significant number of vehicles arrived on Monday carrying provisions - everything from food to disposable coffee cups.
It's really striking how effectively the protesters have managed to organise their own infrastructure and supplies.
Rachel B: Anti-government protests are often met by members of opposition parties. Why do you think neither Act or National appear willing to enter the mosh pit?
TC: I think it's a safety thing as much as anything else.
Louise G: Hi Thomas. Surely there has to be some type of negotiation put in place. It seems the Government isn't prepared to engage in this which is fuelling the dissent. They have a right to be heard, so then they would likely go home.
TC: Police are speaking to the protesters (one issue they have is that there's no clear leadership).
The Government is quite happy to leave this one to the Speaker and the police for now (although remarks from Grant Robertson, who happens to be the local MP, make it clear they're not happy).
I wouldn't rule out something happening in future, but I'd say it's unlikely. It would be a big deal for the Government to suddenly step over the independence of the police, and set a dangerous precedent.
Leila S: What were the documents the protesters were originally trying to deliver? A petition, legal stuff, Treaty rights ...? If legitimate, why will no one receive them like a normal protest?
TC: Often protesters will be met by people who agree with them. In this case, there are very few MPs who do actually agree with the protests.
National, Act and Te Pāti Māori are have all been critical of parts of the current mandate and vaccine pass system (although they also support parts of it too).
The bigger issue is probably the way the protesters presented themselves to Parliament. Even ahead of the escalation last week, MPs had received threats of violence against them.
Steve E: Hi Thomas. At what point do you think a protest becomes illegitimate? Perhaps a week of clogging a city's streets, turning public spaces into a sty, and threatening executions (all the while demanding the repeal of laws instituted by a duly elected govt and supported by the vast majority of the populace) comes close to crossing that threshold?
TC: Illegitimate protest is a pretty strong word to use, but we must be quite close to that now (if not there already).
Civil disobedience has been a feature of some of the world's great protest movements. Protesters will often go somewhere they're not supposed to be and refuse to move to make the point they're trying to make.
The difference here is that some protesters are threatening people who work, live, and go to school by the camp, which makes it quite a different character of protest. Protesters who aren't doing this, aren't doing much to rein in their more extreme colleagues.
Jeremy T: Obviously the Govt are not changing the mandate rules, so how do we get the protesters to end the protest? Would they be willing to leave if the Govt came up with some dates? I think a lot of NZers are starting to ask the same question of this Govt. Everyone knows someone who's been affected, and it's beginning to divide us.
TC: That's the big question. National and Act have both been pushing for the Government to give some certainty about when the current system will end.
The Government has been reluctant, mainly because there's a lot of uncertainty about how the looming Omicron wave will go. If Omicron turns out to be a dangerous, longer-term challenge to the health system over the next few months, the Government won't be inclined to budge too much.
But the system can't last forever, especially as border reopening etc. force us to change approach.
Gail S: Hi Thomas. Who gets to pay for the damage caused to the grounds at Parliament when this is all resolved?
TS: I'm sorry to report that you will likely have to pay Gail! It's almost certain that the bill will be paid for by Parliament, which is paid for by taxpayers like you and me.
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