Should you be able to call your baby whatever you want?

Naming a child is one of the greatest responsibilities parents face, but when Pat and Sheena Wheaton decided to name their newborn son 4real, they ran into problems at the Births, Deaths and Marriages department.

Here is the latest selection of Your Views:

RosinaIn the 70s, as a Uni Student working holidays, I had a job typing up birth certificates at the Auckland office of Births Deaths and Marriages. In those days, it was located in O'Connell St, at the back of Vulcan Lane. My work desk was in the basement/dungeon with a cruddy old typewriter whose upper carriage would frequently fly off. It was common for Pacific Island people to name their children after events - such as illnesses, tragedies and places, official titles and so on. So there are people walking around today with names like Leukaemia, Croup, Hacking Cough, Anaemia, Bankrupt, Affidavit and so on. Regretfully, in my pre-culturally sensitive days, I would spend my days in hysterics whilst typing up their certificates. But cultural sensitivity doesn't apply here. I think 4real is a ghastly name. However, as parents, they should be able to name their child whatever they want.

Sarah, LondonOh dear! This made headlines in local papers over here. Come on Wheatons, this is ridiculous, think of your poor child.

What is in a name?Who cares what parents call their child? If the child does not like it they can change it. There are not too many people around who would have chosen their given name.

Outside the squareFaith, Hope, Praise, 4Real there is not that much difference really. 4Real is not offensive and I know if I had a choice I would choose 4Real any day, especially over names used millions of times like John, Jane or Alex. They have chosen a name that no one else has, they are not afraid to be different and they are obviously going to teach their son this. We are in the 21st century and names keep changing. Wake up everybody, text language is amongst us. I'm a teacher and kids use it every chance they have. As for bullies in the playground. Names are not the problem. Bullying is the problem. In the article, the dad talks about his nephews accepting his babies names. So far I bet all the negative feed back has been from adults. So stop blaming what kids might do at school and focus on yourselves. Think outside the square, we are living in the creative era, accept that everyone is unique. This couple should be commended for perservering with their decision. How many others have given up on their first choice of name because the authorities have said no? Good luck to them.

Maddy Of course parents should be have the right to name their child anything they want. But what they don't have is the right to expect anyone to respect what is an incredibly stupid name.

Sharon When you name your children, you have to think beyond the ultrasound - it is a responsibility, not a fun party-thing to do! Many children have problems "fitting in" at school and in other social situations, why make it even harder? Why damage your child's self esteem before he has even started to build one, perhaps for the rest of his life? This is a person, not a pet!

Jasmine from AucklandGreat, if they can't get 4real, perhaps they could try to get 4shizzle, then they could make his second name m'nizzle, thus naming him 4shizzle m'nizzle!!!

1983 kid (Western Springs, Auckland) It is okay to call your kid whatever you want as nickname only and as long as he or she is given a proper name both in real life and on paper to avoid getting teased or suffer from low self esteem in later life. Giving a weird name to a child is just unacceptable because doing so would mean that one is dicing with the child's self-esteem in the future. As a person, I would never name my kid after a city, a country or after a film or tv character with a very weird name. It is not worth risking the kid's self-esteem. What's more in the end, it's us, the parents, who end getting the blame for giving weird names to our kids.

Ally From AucklandI personal think that it is a stupid name to be given to a child and when it grows up I think that it would be quite embarrassed to be called 4real. I think that the parents should think of the child not themselves.

stephI would feel very sorry for the child for having to grow up with a name like that. He could get bullied and get embarrassed.

MrbishI personally know this couple and I believe that it is completely in their right to name their son 4Real without being judged. Just because they choose this name it doesn't mean they don't love him just as much as the next person. Everyone gets teased at school no matter what your name is. If it was you, you'd fight the Births, Deaths, & Marriages etc. Good on you Pat and Shena and good luck.

JennyWIf silly people want to give their children silly names, that's up to them! They obviously have no concept of the difficulties they are creating for themselves and their child for the rest of his life but no doubt feel qualified to cope whatever may come up. My husband has two christian names but has always been known by the second; the amount of trouble he has had over his 60 year life span trying to get his name sorted has been frustrating to say the least! Coping with a silly name would be an even bigger challenge.

Yasha Ashura
If this name is getting approved, I don't see what's so wrong with 4real. There are people named Gaylord or Nosmo King, and they managed to grow up.

oh my gosh!Yo, parents! Wake up! you need to realise that you are about to condemn your child to about 13 years of torture until he has the courage to tell you what he actually thinks! Your not celebritys who can name their kids after snacks and vegetables, because they have money to sue people for teasing! Next we'll be hearing about poor little 'oh man' and other stupid expressions that you think of when you're at that ultrasound like 'I wanted a girl!' Seriously people, he's not a personalised plate. Get rid of the name 4real. Please.

JANET MADDISONImagine the potential names parents would register if it were legal to name their babies after every exclaimation or expletive at the 'joyous' moment [or otherwise] of seeing their baby on an ultrasound! This is not about the baby, but the parents who now have had their moment of fame. I have a challenge . . . poll the readers for a suitable name with a small donation for each suggestion and contribute funds to a children's charity. That way this child will have some positive history to look back on and hopefully assist the parents in choosing an appropriate name that will not condemn him to a life of ridicule.

Jo FThere are few polite words to say on this matter, I can only suggest the parents watch the movie Idiocracy and take heed, their insistence only solidifies the underlying message of the movie.

jor-el concerned citizenomg mayaswell call him "forsure" or some other common saying.

Alisha AucklandTimes are changing and in this day and age we should be encouraging individuality rather than teaching kids that everybody should look, act and behave just like everyone else. Names are the just the same and yes parents should be mindful of how a child will be affected by a name later in life but that does not mean they have to choose a standardised name pre approved by the nation. If the parents like the name 4real that's fantastic but unfortunately a name is a word and words do not have digits in them. Why not name the child Foreal? It's a compromise but it has all the meaning and emotion behind it that the parents originally chose. A while ago a study was done showing that in a few years there would be at least four Maddy's in the average classroom . . . what is so wrong with wanting to give a child the gift of a unique name?

TomComment from the USA. My father's name was Friel. He used to tell the story that when he was born his father stated upon seeing him the first time, "That's my boy for real". The attending nurse thought that was to be his name and wrote it on the birth certificate. Of course that was just a story. My father's first name was Hayden, but since he didn't like that, he went by his middle name Friel. He was in the US Navy during WWII and fought in the Pacific. I know he visited Australia, but I'm not sure about New Zealand. Please pass this along to the parents. I'd be privileged if they were to pick this name for their son.

KelSo many simpletons! No matter what name someone has at school they can be laughed at for it, I was one that was bullied. "hur hur hur, you got a gurls name!! hur hur". Look at the poor names of some celebrities kids, did anyone tell them their names were ridiculous? Let them have their name.

woomackSaddling a child with such a name is as intelligent as giving 16 year old children the right to vote.

William H. Bonney (Perth) A child's name probably warrants a little more thought than the two seconds it took for his parents to realise that the situation was 'for real'. That's not a name - it's a short exclamation. That being said, it is their choice and there are plenty of other silly names out there already that nobody's complained about. What's one more going to change?

Blondenaturally"4real" is something you might put on your number plate not on your child. I thought they might actually be supporters of a certain spanish football team.

Gabriel PollardTheir child will be teased, this I know for sure. I still go to school and to this day I am teased for having the name Gabriel. Other school students extract the Ga from my name, translating it into gay and using that against me.

NadineDon't these people care about how their son would feel about having a name "4real" - I mean seriously - this poor child will have a terrible time in school and probably for the rest of his life. Why would anyone want to punish their child in such a way just to prove a point - how ridiculous! Think about it - he will receive letters in the mail addressed to Mr 4.

JeffWith a first name like that, his parents may want to consider a middle name like 4titude . . .

M4D3L3IN3Names don't actually *have* to mean anything, nor have personal significance. The most depressing thing about 4real is it commemorates the incapacity of the child's parents to realise the enormity and significance of a pregnancy up utill that point. Here are some other pregancy related suggestions: Vomitam, Stretchmarx, EZlabour.
A name is for life, and not that of the parents, but that of their child. It needs to be something the parents like, of course, but tempered by being something they think their child will like, that can be pronounced based on its written form (correcting EVERYBODY that says your name is annoying, though abominations like Shivorn are best avoided) and that doesn't clash horribly with the child's surname. Children are not personalised plates and giving someone a name you have any remote suspicion they're going to want to change is mean. Give the kid a proper name on his birth certificate - you can always refer to him as 4real in the family. See this website for some perils of naming babies.

ANAThis couple should be able to call their baby whatever they want. It has meaning to them and obviously to their son. They are absolutely right if it was a celebrity the name would be alright for them to use. What's the world coming to these days? This couple can name their baby whatever they want to. It's a cool name by the way. Well I think it is!

Westie rebelThe idea that people will judge and put down this child and therefore mustn't be called this, shows that bullies have POWER in our everyday lives. If I wanted to call my son 4real or Zin Zan or Zowie for a loving reason, then I will. People, children included, will judge and put down others no matter what their name.
Okay you do have to answer to the authorities but we mustn't let society's judgemental bullies rule us!

DaveYou are asking for trouble starting your child's name with a number. Think about all the computer systems and databases that only allow A-Z for a person's name. Think about how he will be teased at school for being different. When you're a teenager, it doesn't matter why someone is different - if they are, they will be teased, simple as that. I'm talking from experience. Just drop the number! It's not a good idea.

whats in a name? Honestly people . . . COME ON . . . is it any one else's business what they call their child and how they spell it, if it has signifigance to them, what right does anyone else have to judge? If there can be Apples why not 4Real???? GOOD ON YOU GUYS . . . stick to your guns . . .

Open-MindedPersonally, I think all those people out there who have a problem with 2 loving parents calling their gorgeous wee boy what they like need to take a good hard look at themselves. 4Real will grow up with a strong personality and will have the utmost respect for those who are unique, he wont be judgemental like the people who have a problem with his name. It is these people who's attitudes rub off on their children, and who's children then are the bullys. I think it is these people that need a lesson in parenting, not the Wheatons! I have pity for the people who are obviously stuck in the dark ages and can't handle the fact that times change!

Mercedes AucklandParents who think they can name a child whatever they want mistakenly and sadly think children are property. Sorry people. You are only the guardian of your children. I have a name that is a bit unusual, but the car was actually named after a girl, so I don't feel the name is that strange. I can defend it when the odd person teases me about it.

Shirley GoodwinNo, I don't agreee with the statement that if these parents were in the public eye, no-one would question the name. How about getting real? It's a REALLY dumb name, and your son wouldn't thank you for it when he grew up. Not to mention the schoolyard bullying you'd be just asking for. The Department of Internal Affairs has done your son a favour.

Genevieve - AucklandI like the suggestion of changing it to "Foreal" and maybe make that the middle name. Give him a more conventional first name then you can call him what you want at home but he has the option when he grows up of using his first name if he prefers.

Lisa AucklandIs this poor child a car number plate? 4real I,ve seen that on a car. My guess is that this child will change his name the first chance he gets after many years of teasing at school. The comment about answering exams in text speak being allowed is not relavent to this situation as we are talking about a human being here. I think that there should be borders of common sense on what we are allowed to call our children so that the less educated among us don't try to call their kids something offensive or plain silly. Anyway most business computer systems are not set up to be able to add a digit into a name. Give the poor kid a chance in life.

FiDaddy (Chch), in regards to your comment: I remember those days at school. Please name one place in the world where anything is "fair". People don't say that kids can be cruel for no reason - they hear what their parents say, and say it as well. Do you remember your days at school? You were either 1 of 2 types of children, the bullied one or the bully. Please reconsider.

KimNo, you should not be able to name your children whatever you want. They should invest in a boat or a buy a license plate if they want to be able to use made up names. The word (as it is not a name) is not suitable for a child. The poor kid will be harrased and ridiculed throughout its life and I would imagine, would need and want to change its name in the future.

HV in AucklandThis is a ridiculous name, but it is their choice - why don't they just register it as Forreal (officially) and spell it 4Real? In 10 years or so, text speak will probably be all we have anyway (sob.

Gabe01Thoughtless names have been around for more years than I care to remember. As an ex-obstet nurse I have heard a few that I am sure caused children and young people much pain and embarrassment. Twins Girly & Lirly - twins Benson & Hedges (not so bad) - a young man I met called Epsom Bus Shelters 'cos that's where he was born. Another that the parents had the grace to change down the line was 'Holy Space Craft'. Anything goes just as long as Mum and Dad don't have to wear it I guess.

Adam
I once dealt with girl who Anglicised her name to Ophelia. Her surname was Cock. Sometimes real thought has to go into a name. 4real is just a plain dumb name. But here are some other dumb but real names, Auckland harbour bridge, persil, the twins latitude and longitude, hemi-semi-demi-quavar and television. All true and verifiable names that were accepted. Maybe FourReal would be acceptable or forial or even fore-eel. Hope this helps.

Treena, WellingtonI agree with the people who say why can't he be named "Foreal"? Or possibly "Forreal" or given our semi-literate society where any spelling goes "Phourreel"? Why is the number so important? Have this child's parents not read the numerous reports about how having an unusual name as a child can have adverse effects on their self-esteem growing up. Duncan "Zowie" Bowie, Rolan Bolan and Frank Zappa's children have all apparently at some time expressed the pain of growing up with an unusual name. The parents should think about the child, not themselves.

HawkeyeThe same thing happened in Belgium a few years back. A couple wanted to call their new born son Anakin, and that went into court. It has to do wth the right of the child. For me, I think 4real is rather stupid. It reminds me of personalised plates or some hip hop artist name.

DollyWhat foolishness. There was an interesting article in a recent Herald publication - written by a student with an "unusual" name - asking people to seriously consider the repercussions of giving unusual names to children before doing it. In this case the people are not even wanting to give their child a name, they are giving him a number (as his initial will be "4"). Surely they could consider finding a word that fits the meaning they want - "Foreal" has already been suggested, or perhaps a word from a language in their ancestry that has the meaning they want? They would still get the difference they are seeking, without consigning their child to future problems.

boomshankaIn later years people might ask "are you 4real?" :) Parents should be able to do what they want. It's only a name. Go the creativity

Simon - WellingtonWill the next thing be a bar code as a name, or an an email address? I wonder if they have pondered how 4real applies for his drivers licence, his weding vows or when he wants to take out a bank account. God help us if he joins the army and has to answer his name in a crowd. He will be subjected to fun and laughter all of his life. There is making a statement, and then there is a statement that shows there is a total lack of any sense of parental responsibility.

Auckland AuntieAs someone who has been trying to have a family for many years now, it makes me so mad that people who have been lucky enough to have been blessed with such a gorgeous gift can treat it with such disrespect. This baby deserves a fine, strong name which he'll be proud to answer to for the rest of his life. Why not give him a name that reflects his heritage, his culture, his family ancestry, even someone who the parents truly admire and would like their child to grow up like? That way, his name will give him a true sense of pride in who he is, where he came from and what he could go on to achieve in life.

Westie rebelWhat a bunch of moaners we've become. I say name your child whatever you want, it's your child,no one else's business! You can always change it later but people shouldn't be pressure moulded by society.

AlannaA Boy Named Sue by Johnny Cash

"My daddy left home when I was three
And he didn't leave much to ma and me
Just this old guitar and an empty bottle of booze.
Now, I don't blame him cause he run and hid
But the meanest thing that he ever did
Was before he left, he went and named me SUE.

Well, he must o' thought that is quite a joke
And it got a lot of laughs from a' lots of folk,
It seems I had to fight my whole life through.
Some gal would giggle and I'd get red
And some guy'd laugh and I'd bust his head,
I tell ya, life ain't easy for a boy named SUE."

DaveWith his luck in life, when he grows up and asks for that as a car licence plate he'll be told it's taken already.


babalong from Manurewa
What are you thinking of? Naming a child is one of the most important gifts a parent can give a child that will be with them for the rest of the lives, so come think again. I feel so sorry for that child. This is not the first time I have heard of this, a couple overseas named their children after punctuation marks, eg: fullstop, comma, semi-colon, question mark,and so on. A judge overruled them and changed their children's names. When the judge asked why they did that, they said because it was different and that their kids would stand out in a crowd.

Daddy (Chch)I'm wondering if the people who have sent comments so far, raise children who would bully poor 4real? Surely if 4real went to an open-minded school, in an open-minded town, the child would be fine. 20 years ago it would have been unheard of to call your child 'Sky', but now this is a very common name.

mAdCoW - AkldParents - wake up. This is not about you!! He will not thank you for your originality, he will end up changing it by deedpoll after years of hiding it from school and work mates.
To Births Deaths and Marriages; Stand your ground. Do not let them sentence their gorgeous little boy to such an embarassment of a name.

P Staines4real will always be your precious son, and you should have a right to call him whatever you like. However, like the parents of Drew Peacock you will be condemming him to a life of teasing and torment. How about Eaton Wheaton for a bit more subtlety?

SRM AucklandMaybe when he grows up, he'll change it to "embarrased" ?

poor poor babyAhhhh, isn't that sweet? Another poor baby who will be teased for the rest of their childhood, I am sure they will want to change their name when they can, but in the meantime they have to live with it.

SRM AucklandI agree with Westie . . . How embarrasing is 4real? Come on, with so many lovely names out there. What about Harry?
Need us to name him for you? Maybe we should set up a competion?

susanSheesh, some pretty strong views on the parents here. Ease up people, no need to be so vicious it's not like they murdered their child! I was surprised at their choice of name and don't think it's the smartest but as an earlier poster suggested, why not Foreal? Simple and spelt more elegantly. Text language for a name? Hell no! Anyway, there's always the option of a name change at 18 if baby doesn't like his name.

WESTIEI myself think that we should be able to name our children what ever we want to. But come on parents, unless you are Gwynneth Paltrow, or Frank Zappa you need to get real, this gorgeous little boy will be stuck with this for the rest of his life, with Mr and Mrs normal as parents. Come on guys use this for a middle name or even a nickname, but give him a name worthy of his ancestors.

OllieIs this a joke? what kind of parents would call their kid '4real'? Of course they shouldn't be allowed to call him that, it would be a sentence to a lifetime of misery at the hands of his classmates, workmates and anyone that ever asked him for his name. His parents need to get real.

ColIf I had a choice, I would rename the parents "unreal1" and "unreal2". At least the kid is "4 (for) real"! I can accept that some Hollywood stars name their kids after fruits etc., but at least they can spell. Having a numerical number in a name is just absurd.

NE, HendersonOne must wonder whether these parents are really fit to be parents. What they seem to be forgetting is that it's the kid, not them that is going to suffer the most. People may think they're the idiots for calling their son 4real but it's not really going to affect them greatly. 4real himself though is going to be the butt of jokes to kingdom come if his parents succeed. The talk of txt speech in exams is nonsensical. If a teen happens to use u instead of you in a non-English exam in a context where it's understood what's being said; then the teenager is the one taking the risk people will laugh at him/her for doing it. In this case, the parents are making a decision that will very negatively affect their child. Celebrity kids at least have the advantage they only tend to socialise with other celebrity kids so they don't have to put up with the real world. The odd occasion they meet more normal people or kids, these people are going to be too star struck to tease the celebrity kids anyway plus the celebrity parents can always sue whoever makes fun of their kids.

NE, HendersonAs for the person who wanted to call their child BJ, have you ever considered that while BJ may be an okay nickname, there are circumstances when your son is probably going to want to use his full name? Perhaps I'm wrong but I strongly suspect he'd much rather have his university degree in the name of Benjamin then BJ. Or his marriage certificate. And think of the problems he would have had when travelling if he had had BJ on his passport. Sadly, far too often people don't bother to think things through properly when naming their kids . . .

Tony Frew
"My name is Sue, how do you do?"
By Johnny Cash . . .

CatherineSeriously, these parents must have a screw loose wanting to call their kid '4real'. Think about the poor kid for goodness sake. Imagine trying to get a job with a name like that ('CV of 4real Wheaton'), or the teasing from kids in the playground. The department is doing the right thing to restrict people naming their kids particular names. What are we going to have next, 'Chair' or 'Computer'?

BruceSo call the baby Foreal then. Poor little bugger!

FionaWhat on earth are the parents thinking? 4real is not a name, it is text slang. I think if Pat and Sheena want to give their child a barcode name then they should change their names to match. I can think of 2 names: RU and Bro. Then the family could be called in one sentence "RU, 4real, Bro Wheaton"? Grow up people.

Kim IcklandIronic that the man compares naming his child to stupid university students who answer exams in text language and thinks that naming his child the same way is a good thing. Thankfully the days when children where considered "property" in law are over. Parents are guardians of children, not owners and they cannot do whatever they want to innocent kids. Parents need guidance in doing what is best for a child which is why we have groups like Plunkett and Family Services.

Oppresse