Dinosaur Jr could have been bigger than the Pixies - or even Nirvana.
Nearly 20 years ago they had songs like Little Fury Things, In A Jar, and Freak Scene to do it. But the problem was, frontman J Mascis and bass player Lou Barlow hated each other's guts. They barely talked to each other.
"You can talk about music chemistry and then there's personal chemistry," says Barlow, breaking into a menacing giggle.
"I suppose," he continues sluggishly, "we had a bit of musical chemistry because maybe we're like-minded when it comes to music. But personally ... there was a stunning lack of anything."
Despite this troubled past, Dinosaur Jr - including Murph, the original drummer - are back together on a world tour and recording songs for an album. They play the St James Theatre in Auckland on Monday.
The band's heyday came in the mid- to late-80s but they never got the recognition or reached the heights of contemporaries like the Pixies and Nirvana. But, says Barlow, if he and Mascis had got along then the music would have been even better and who knows what could have happened?
"People always say the discord in the band lent to the power of the music and I just never buy that. There was a period when we were communicating on a musical level at least ... and I really think the best results came from that."
The albums You're Living All Over Me (1987) and Bug (1988), in particular, are examples of Dinosaur Jr's greatness. As Barlow says: "In the mid-80s ... we assaulted the audience." And that's why Dinosaur Jr were so important.
"Just the way J stepped up the guitar and made it sound modern and more extreme. J made a beautiful racket and he still does.
"But also, in terms of the production and the force that Dinosaur played with, I think we did a pretty good job of that."
Barlow says if it wasn't for J Mascis then Radiohead would never have come up with something like Creep. "That is just so Dinosaur that song," he gushes.
Barlow agrees that Mascis was, and still is, a control freak when it comes to music.
However, he's chuffed about a minor coup he scored in 1987 when Mascis allowed two of his songs to be included on the album You're Living All Over Me.
"But, I mean, it is J's band and he's a formidable presence when it comes to music. He is the architect of the music and he's a very good drummer and an outstanding guitar player. He is the leader."
Barlow hasn't played on a Dinosaur Jr. album since Bug. Throughout the 90s Mascis continued to release Dinosaur Jr. albums - Green Mind and Where You Been? the best of that lot - on which he played most, if not all, of the instruments.
When Barlow was kicked out of the band it was a huge relief since he was angry, frustrated and suffering anxiety attacks.
"I was feeling unwell and when he kicked me out I immediately got much healthier. "I slept better and all that stuff."
He concentrated on his band Sebadoh, then formed Folk Implosion. Last year he released his third solo album, Emoh. The music is a stark contrast to the often frantic, scorching sound of Dinosaur Jr.
"I didn't want to be a member of a band like the Ramones or something. To me a band that establishes its style early on becomes a trap. I wanted to take things in the totally opposite direction - I wanted to bring things down to a whisper.
"I aimed to keep [Sebadoh] free from too much structure, and trying to do something completely different because you can never try and recreate Dinosaur because, well, you can't," he says.
There was no venting session between Mascis and Barlow when the band decided to reform. It helped that they had "grown up a bit" but it came down to wanting to play the songs again. "They [Mascis and Murph] showed up in Los Angeles at my practice space. J walked in, plugged in his guitar, and that was it. We were off.
"I think the [songs] stand up well. They're big. They're really good songs. I hadn't played music quite that forceful in a long time and there's just something about the momentum of Dinosaur, and the force that we play with. But the biggest change now is I see J enjoying his music more, whereas back in the day, just deigning to admit something was good was out of the question.
"So when I see J plug in and enjoy the songs, then I kind of feel like it wouldn't hurt if I stepped in and played in the old style with him."
So what are the new songs like?
"It sounds like Dinosaur. I think the only difference is that it's a little slower.
"I don't think people realised how fast we used to play back then," he laughs.
LOWDOWN
Who: Dinosaur Jr
What: Revolutionary American rockers pre-Nirvana
Line-up: J Mascis (singer/guitarist), Lou Barlow (bass), Murph (drums)
Where & when: St James, Auckland, Monday night
Key albums: You're Living All Over Me (1987); Bug (1989); Green Mind (1991); Where You Been (1993)
Jurassic band reignites spark
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