Te Pou - flair today, gone tomorrow

Matt Te Pou

Q: Why retire now as Maori coach - and what's next for you?

A: I get the same buzz I did 10 years ago but it's time to move on. There are some good coaching and management guys coming through. The team has a good record and it's better to go out on a high. I'll firstly go back to my club Whakatane Marist, and then stay involved - maybe in management.

Q: What's the key to a successful Maori side?

A: Achieving a balance. It's about ensuring guys who have not been exposed to this type of culture, those brought up in the cities, feel safe and are never embarrassed. But you don't go over the top. We're here to win. It's about achieving that balance.

Q: What have been the major changes in your decade as coach?

A: Away from the park there is still a lot of singing, a lot of laughter, joining together as a family. But we've ensured people don't pull us away from our main aim - to keep the scoreboard ticking over. There's a huge demand from our people to roll out our top players on schools and maraes but there is a cut-off - we've got to take care of business and be tactically and technically sound.

Q: What's your best memory?

A: When we were losing big time in Perth against Australia in 2002. At halftime I could see in the players' eyes that they weren't gone. They couldn't wait to get back out there. Australia had figured out our game plan from the Queensland and New South Wales games, but the players just said, "Let's throw out the game plan and have a crack at these guys". It went to the wire and I hold that dear.

Q: Bad memories?

A: One. We had a deal with All Black coach John Mitchell that he'd release Taine Randell and Kees Meeuws for our match at Albany against the Barbarians, immediately after that Australian game. In return we released Corey Flynn to the under-21s. But they didn't release Taine and Kees and played them in the Barbarians against us. Taine said he would never face a Maori haka again. He had captained us for years. He felt gutted. When you make deals, you stick to them.

Q: Who have been your standout players?

A: There have been a lot of great players. Leaders like Errol Brain and Deon Muir. Or guys like Jim Coe, who never played a bad game. But the standout is Carlos Spencer. Love or hate him, think what he has given rugby over the years. Those kicks, passes, his little tactical moves. He has a joy for the game.

Q: Where will Maori rugby be in 20, 30, 100 years' time?

A: The team is here to stay. Our people will not allow it to go because they love the sport. Other things have gone like New Zealand Universities, where are they now? But Maoridom hangs on. We're 15 per cent of the population but 35 per cent of the top level players.

Q: What do you say to those who question having a Maori team?

A: We are Maori but also proud New Zealanders. Since we played Australia in 2001, attitudes to us have changed. It was only a handful of years ago that we started singing the national anthem in Maori and Pakeha. Now it is standard.

Q: What do you think about the 'blonding' of the Maori team?

A: Our team is getting fairer, and I guess in 20 years they will all be that colour. They all look like my grandchildren. It's just the way it is. We didn't used to have any tall locks. We were loose forwards or short, podgy fellas standing at second five-eighths. The percentage of Maori blood might only be five per cent with some guys but that is your roots, your connection to the land in Maoridom.

Q: How do you decide Maori eligibility?

A: The players declare their whakapapa through the Super 12. The players need to know although sometimes we need kaumatua support. All we need is a name and an area so we can get hold of a kaumatua to get the genealogy link, so they know their marae, hapu, their iwi. Then we check their heart - whether they are ready to bleed for the cause. There were players 15 to 20 years ago who were named and never turned up. In some cases there was pressure put on them by NPC coaches. Now, it is different. The third thing is to follow the current form, ability and talent.

Q: What part does genealogy play in team bonding?

AL We stand up in a room when the team gets together and say who we are, where we are from, where is our mountain, its name, the name of our river and the awa (streams) and their significance and the name of our marae. It's a position of pride. I found out that Piri Weepu's whakapapa is just down the road from me in the Opotoki area. I'm Tuhoe. He's Whakatohea. You start talking a bit of history. It does make a difference when one of yours stands up as well.

Q: Any other rituals?

A: We've added the odd thing over the past 10 years. After each playing team is read out we break into haka. Then we release it to the media. There's a lot of humour. The guys just crack up. We do some things young children do, like naming the parts of their body to a bit of a song - then you walk forward and do the robot dance. It's quite comical - it just breaks the ice.

Q: Do you have a major message about Maori rugby?

A: Our players want to wear the All Black jersey but they also want to wear the Maori jersey, and it can work. Some might say they are prouder of the Maori jersey than they are of the All Black jersey. It's understandable; it's their culture. They are always going to be part of that marae. But when they pull on the All Black jersey they are extremely proud.

Q: What about tonight? There are claims the Maori team have lost their old instincts and flamboyance?

A: That's 'cos everyone else plays like us now. People used to say: 'Those undisciplined Maoris'. Now they call it flair and you're allowed to do it, like attacking from your own line and turning down shots at goal. Everyone wants to play the game we used to play.

Matt Te Pou

* Age: 54
* Hometown: Whakatane
* Previous: New Zealand Army for 23 years, rose to warrant officer, served in Vietnam.
* Honours: QSM, BEM
* Coaching: Whakatane Marist 1990-92; Bay of Plenty head coach 1993/94 (NPC division two); Chiefs assistant coach 1998/99; New Zealand Maori coach 1995 -05
* New Zealand Maori record: 31W, 5L.