Black Grace's artistic director Neil Ieremia once fit the cliche of the benevolent choreographer "stomping my feet at the front of the class". It's hard to reconcile that image with the warm, polite man chatting over a coffee.
"I feel like I'm older and I'm wiser. I used to get really, really cranky and difficult. But not any more."
Later, when he speaks of the dark times that threatened the existence of New Zealand's most successful dance company - and his sanity - his eyes fill with tears. For now they are lit with joy, the result of a successful eight-day trip to Guam.
Impressed by the Maori and Pacific Island influences at the core of Black Grace's dynamic style, the Guam Humanities Council (an independent agency of the United States government) had been asking for three years if they'd come. This year they agreed, performing at community centres and schools, and meeting hundreds of eager young dancers in workshops. The idea was to give the dancers the tools to tell their own stories.
"The indigenous people have had a difficult time. You can see it. They don't quite know who they are so the whole initiative of taking Black Grace there was to help them rediscover their identity. It was a wonderful experience. They were so into it."
Perhaps it's not surprising the company is being taken seriously as a voice for disenfranchised minorities. Gathering Clouds, the work they performed at this year's Auckland Festival, and the production they plan to take to the US next year, was inspired by Dr Greg Clydesdale's discussion paper and its negative conclusions on the impact of Pacific Island migration.
It's likely Ieremia will raise the topic in June when he attends the International Indigenous Choreographers Summit in Canada, as guest lecturer where he has been asked for his thoughts on art as a voice for culture, and New Zealand's emerging cultural identity.
"New Zealand is really at the forefront of addressing these issues whereas Canada and the US struggle," says Ieremia, referring to the way countries relate to their indigenous people. "Obviously Obama is a huge step forward but when we tour there we still get people asking [he puts on a thick American accent], 'Why are you called Black Grace? You don't look black to us'.
"It's still a bit tricky in some parts of those countries. So I'm really keen to get up there and contribute."
Such a prestigious invitation might not have come along had Ieremia succumbed to the testing times of 2006, when Black Grace, as we knew it, fell apart. The resignations of the former dancers seemed all the more mysterious given they came at the end of a successful run of performances in New York. It's still an uncomfortable topic for Ieremia.
"I think the biggest reason was I was just exhausted. I wasn't satisfied artistically. I don't think people actually understand the amount of work it took to getting Black Grace to where it is today. That gave way to a whole bunch of other issues. And those are my issues, not anybody else's."
The company evolved to survive. Despite a few line-up changes since it rose from the ashes - including the 2007 production of Amata, featuring an all-female cast - Black Grace now consists of three women and six men. Ieremia is no longer shy about asserting himself as the nucleus of Black Grace, an artistic and entrepreneurial visionary whose goal has always been to "serve the work".
"At the end of the day, when we didn't sell enough tickets or made a loss, I was always the one sitting there alone. The artistic vision is mine and it's always been that way."
The workload continues to grow with help from artistic associate Wendy Wallace, whose bigger role within the company means they can tour for short periods without the "cranky tourist" needing to go.
Ieremia will be with them when they go to Switzerland and Germany in October, and when they continue to Canada, Australia, and their biennial tour of the United States in 2010. The process of breaking into new markets is a long one but the ultimate goal is to take fully formed productions abroad, rather than the sampler "suitcase works" they have so far toured. Already they are fielding interest from Ireland and Italy.
"The entire international touring programme just keeps growing and I think for New Zealand dance it's great. I feel like we're making some real headway."
So how does Ieremia feel now, knowing how much there is to come? "I feel really calm. I've got two beautiful children which helps a great deal and grounds me. I have a very supportive family and my parents are always on the phone asking if I'm behaving myself."
Older, wiser and ready to take on the world
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